Dog chasing EUC riders small advice how to handle situation like this 🐕

[anutheroneup]

Yeah, if you start throwing treats at dogs you are certainly training them to chase you.  Ideally you don't want them to notice or pay attention to you at all.   I ride many of the same trails and part of why I wave at everyone I pass is because you start seeing the same people and they become accustomed to you and even friendly.  I used to have cyclists who would frown at me who now smile and wave because I give them a "yes I see you and everything's cool" wave.  With dogs you may want to focus mostly on owners and give a wave and/or a visible turn to show "I'm not heading at you or your dog", and eventually they know you are respectful and aware of them and their precious pet(s).  It's like "you're cool, I'm cool.. we're cool" - and then you just pass like it's no big deal.  If you're relaxed and cool and the owner is relaxed an cool, the dog usually will be too. *disclaimer - some dogs are just bananas

Edited September 1, 2023 by anutheroneup

[woke rider]

Carry bacon and an ultrasound deterrent device.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, anutheroneup said:

some dogs are just bananas

This is so true. Fortunately, for me, it is a rare occurrence. 

Just today, I rode by a Collie with a beautiful coat. It turns its heads to look at me momentarily, and then turned back. No barking, no nothing.

[Magman116]

I do believe there is something to the high frequencies that come from our wheels attracting the attention of dogs.  I noticed when I ride my RS19HS, just about every dog wants a piece of it.  I had dogs run out and grab the wheel many times.  One wouldn't let go of the tire till the owner came out and got it. I have not had a dog come at me, just the wheel.

Now I ride my Master most of the time and dogs don't really seem to care when I go by.  I can ride right next to them with out them hardly blinking an eye at me. So, to me, there is something different here.  It could just be the switching frequency of certain wheels creating ultrasonic harmonics that bother dogs.

Either way, Just use caution around people and animals. I have more issues with people than dogs.

[DjPanJan]

16 inch is Ok i use it 3 years (hardeded ESP model what CZ POLICE(18+21inch).

18inch is bigger beter for suspension EUC.

I never hit dog what not bite me. Many dogs just want run with you this is ok scenario just slow down.

If dog is in hunt mode or bite when chasing you just shmash his nose/face/eye.

Real experience many dogs run away when hear this amazing sound when telescopic baton is extended this "CVAK" sound make magic.(and stick in hand phenomen)

 

I live in EU country where gun own 0,2% population this is not America baby. 

 

 

 

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/20932-dog-chasing-euc-riders-small-advice-how-to-handle-situation-like-this-🐕/

Edited September 1, 2023 by DjPanJan

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Magman116 said:

I do believe there is something to the high frequencies that come from our wheels attracting the attention of dogs.  I noticed when I ride my RS19HS, just about every dog wants a piece of it.  I had dogs run out and grab the wheel many times.  One wouldn't let go of the tire till the owner came out and got it. I have not had a dog come at me, just the wheel.

Now I ride my Master most of the time and dogs don't really seem to care when I go by.  I can ride right next to them with out them hardly blinking an eye at me. So, to me, there is something different here.  It could just be the switching frequency of certain wheels creating ultrasonic harmonics that bother dogs.

Either way, Just use caution around people and animals. I have more issues with people than dogs.

Interesting - my experience was rather opposite to that. My Old MS3, which had the high whistling thing, seemed to upset many fewer dogs than my Master does now, yet it is virtually silent running (or I am older and deafer and can't hear it any more!). I thought that was a bit counter-intuitive, so in looking around for what other differences there might be, thought the armour might be it - when I was on that smaller, slower wheel I didn't feel the need for helmet or much more than wrist guards, whereas something about the master (what was it now, oh yes; the height, weight and speed of it!) demanded full stormtrooper kit, so I thought they might be reacting to that.

Also, in the first month after I got the Master it seemed like EVERY SINGLE damn dog I passed took massive exception to me, but this has definitely calmed down now - so perhaps local dogs are now used to me having seen me about a bit, and don't react so much. But there are those 2 large black ones though, that continue to go mental the very second they see me and don't stop pulling at the leash until I am out of sight...

Edited September 1, 2023 by Cerbera

[Magman116]

It would be interesting to take a audio spectrum analyzer out around different wheels to see what frequencies are produced to see if there is any coloration to certain wheels affecting dog's hearing.

I come across dogs daily when riding my Master and have little to no affect on them.  I think the 1st negative encounter I had was with my KS16X when a neighbor's dog charges me and grabbed the wheel. I jumped off and he continued to bite the wheel and did not seem interested in me. I am normally fully geared up looking like a storm trooper.

I will try and experiment with my various wheels to see which ones have more of an effect with dogs. To my recollection, I have only had issues with dogs when riding my KS16X and RS19HS. I cannot think of any instances with my V8S or Master, but that could just be the dogs I came across and not the wheels at all. So, more thank likely, different dogs are attracted to different things when they see us riding and not just the sounds of the wheel or what we look like.

There is definitely room for experimentation. 

[Yook]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:43 PM, Magman116 said:

I do believe there is something to the high frequencies...

This is the most likely answer. Its the switching freq of the FETs are super active and sweeppy with EUC's, 

[skunkmonkey]

I always assume a dog is going to attack if it sees me, and give it a wide berth. Dogs want to protect their owners and their territories. An EUC is something the dog isn't used to, and could easily be perceived as a threat, especially with all the armor.

Drive defensively, give the dogs a lot of space, and you won't usually have a problem. I've had dogs chase my on my bicycle, so it's not specific to EUC's, but dogs tend to have more experience with bicycles, so they get chased less often.

[Eucner]

"Treat others the way you want to be treated" works most of the time. I assume dogs to be nice and friendly, and treat them respectfully. None has attacked or chased me, so far.

[Clem604]

From my experience some dogs will chase you until you stop. I've tried both riding away and stopping and I find that when you stop so do they. Something about chasing moving things are built in some of their DNA perhaps.

[Rawnei]

On 8/31/2023 at 11:44 PM, Cerbera said:

Yes I have noticed this. It is not all dogs, but a certain percentage of them, and the reason they go nuts seems to be a combination of helmet / armour (so they can't see what you are) and the way you move (which is a fast glide, like typical prey items).

I've had dogs bark at me through bushes/hedges when riding past without directly seeing me and they also bark at riders without helmets so I think it's probably that there is some noise from the motor that they react to, some sort of high pitch coil whine (like we can hear some of it on EX30 or Sherman S).

Some dogs are more secure than others, if the dog feels secure with their owner they usually don't bark at random things, so they might all see/hear the same things but react differently.

[Magman116]

I can now say I have been chased by 3 dogs in the last week on my Master.  One was so aggressive it was biting at my tire and almost made me crash. I was able to accelerate quickly and get away but had to get over 30mph to do so.  It was a Pitbull and had it's fur raised up and barking the whole time. Another was a border collie and it only chased me till I stopped then it turned away.  I always slow down when approaching dogs, just trying to anticipate their reaction.  You can tell pretty fast if you need to stop or accelerate quickly. 

I have ridden by, right next to many more dogs in the last week without any interest other than wanting to be pet.

[mrelwood]

On 9/1/2023 at 4:08 PM, Magman116 said:

It would be interesting to take a audio spectrum analyzer out

That's all the provocation I need...

 

Inmotion V11:

 

KingSong 16S:

V11 has a bunch of spiking frequencies at around 15KHz that light up like a christmas tree. They get louder as the speed increases. This is a frequency that indeed gets lost as we age, but I think it's the real nasty 29KHz one that messes up with dogs. It's well past humans' hearing range, and a near ideal dog whistle frequency.

The 16S (fw 2.09, fw 1.x had a really annoying whine) has the frequencies at 12KHz and 24KHz, and still whines louder than the V11. But like on the V11, the frequencies are each others' multiples. Clearly a switching noise of some sort, most likely from the mosfets.

 

But like many have said, most dogs don't bat an eye despite the whine. My guess is that with the kick scooters and whatnot a BLDC motor whine is something they just have had to get used to.

Edited September 11, 2023 by mrelwood

[Eucner]

11 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

That's all the provocation I need...

Thanks for providing us real data. What mic you used?

[Magman116]

@mrelwood great data. I think the frequencies we would be looking at that affect the dogs the most are between 20khz and 25khz. I believe they can hear up around 50khz or higher, but I do not believe our wheels are producing frequencies that high in significant levels, plus dogs are not as sensitive to frequencies over 30khz.

 

Great data points!!!! Thanks for your efforts!

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

But like many have said, most dogs don't bat an eye despite the whine. My guess is that with the kick scooters and whatnot a BLDC motor whine is something they just have had to get used to.

I'm somewhat convinced it boils down to the dogs having some discipline, like it's owner trained it not to react to every single noise or moving object, usually insecure dogs where owner don't know how to make it behave it will bark at everything, I see dogs of same breed react completely differently to our wheels, fortunately here in Stockholm at least most dogs seems to be behaving, it's rare but sometime a random dog will lash out but we have leash requirement here which is usually honored so they usually just jump and stop mid-air from the leash. 😂

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Eucner said:

Thanks for providing us real data. What mic you used?

CAD M179. I actually tried first with a cheapo measurement mic, but it had a nasty self resonance (or other peak) at 28kHz… 🤣 All my SDCs are on loan atm, so while the CAD response is far from flat that high, it’s perfectly capable to show sharp peaks like this.

42 minutes ago, Magman116 said:

@mrelwood great data. I think the frequencies we would be looking at that affect the dogs the most are between 20khz and 25khz. I believe they can hear up around 50khz or higher, but I do not believe our wheels are producing frequencies that high in significant levels, plus dogs are not as sensitive to frequencies over 30khz.

I have zero knowledge on the matter, but one of the first results I found when googling “dog whistle frequency” said that they are usually 35kHz. Another said that they are from 23kHz to something like 54kHz.

[mrelwood]

For comparison, here's the graph from when the wheel is slowing down freely after the free spin cutoff. No high peaks.

[Eucner]

10 hours ago, mrelwood said:

CAD M179. I actually tried first with a cheapo measurement mic, but it had a nasty self resonance (or other peak) at 28kHz… 🤣 All my SDCs are on loan atm, so while the CAD response is far from flat that high, it’s perfectly capable to show sharp peaks like this.

Thank you. Large (1.1") diaphragm condenser mic will typically start to attenuate frequencies above 8-10 kHz. The pressure levels of mid and high frequencies can't be compared, but like you said, sharp resonance peaks will be clearly shown. An omnidirectional 1/4" diaphragm measurement mic would have best frequency response for this job, but might not be sensitive enough. A 1/2" mic could be good compromise.

[Manoux]

He did chase me, but nothing serious.

 

[Cerbera]

2 hours ago, Manoux said:

He did chase me, but nothing serious.

Still does nothing for your heart rate tho right ?! Even if the small dog isn't trying to kill you, if it gets to hang off one of your ankles that's a very destabilising experience ! At least the ones with such little legs are fairly easy to outrun... 

I pass 2 greyhounds on the regular run into town most days (always on leads thank goodness), and there'd be no outrunning them ! Fortunately, unlike the (now 4) black labs around town the Greyhounds seem uninterested in pursuit.

Edited March 13 by Cerbera

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I pass 2 greyhounds on the regular run into town most days (always on leads thank goodness), and there'd be no outrunning them ! Fortunately, unlike the (now 4) black labs around town the Greyhounds seem uninterested in pursuit.

On the subject of dog-chasing-riders, I just realize dogs don't bark or have any interest in me riding by anymore. Maybe in 20+ encounters, one dog has barked a bit. And the few dogs that were not leashed, none had the slightest interest.

Not sure what changed.

Edited March 13 by techyiam

[Robse]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

On the subject of dog-chasing-riders, I just realize dogs don't bark or have any interest in me riding by anymore. Maybe with 20+ encounters, one dog has barked a bit. And the few dogs that were not leashed, none had the slightest interest.

Not sure what changed.

you no longer smell fresh enough.

 

 

I'll probably go somewhere else now...

[Glock43x]

..

Edited March 17 by Glock43x