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Gotway MSP, my first EUC, question about charging it


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Good morning folks,

I got my first EUC yesterday and am loving it, got the MSP from Ian at speedyfeet.co.uk. Clocked 15 miles on it yesterday evening.

I've a question about charging, should I be charging it to 100% as reported by the app, or until the charger light goes green? Right now it's reportedly at 100% but the charger is still showing a red LED, the fan is on and it's fairly warm to touch. Nothing in the manual that I can see... I don't want to overcharge the cells, one would hope they're cells with protection circuitry, but I expect they probably aren't?

Thanks!

Marc

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37 minutes ago, Marc Roberts said:

Good morning folks,

Welcome!

Quote

I've a question about charging, should I be charging it to 100% as reported by the app,

100% is shown for a cell voltage range from some 4.1xV up to 4.2V. (1)

Using cell voltage to show the state of charge only works if one allows the battery to settle for some time - while charging or riding the charge % are very inaccurate (up to nonsense values)

Quote

or until the charger light goes green?

This should normally be the sign that the charging current  drops below a certain threshold and charging is finished. A Li Ion charger should stop charging at this point. As it seems from reports here this threshold is set too high for most chargers.

Quote

Right now it's reportedly at 100% but the charger is still showing a red LED, the fan is on and it's fairly warm to touch. Nothing in the manual that I can see...

As written above - wait fir the green led and add some 1/2-2 hours. For more detailed decission you would need to measure the charging current.

Quote

I don't want to overcharge the cells, one would hope they're cells with protection circuitry, but I expect they probably aren't?

The BMS has an overcharge protection and balances the cells. The balancing happens mainly while the app already reports 100% charge but the charger light is red until about some timeframe after it turned green.

Details on li ion charging:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

For (much) more details take a look at 

Edit: (1) charge % are simply calculated from battery voltage 4.1xV (and above) * 20 cells == 100%, 3.3V*20 cells = 66V == 0%

Edited by Chriull
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12 minutes ago, Chriull said:

Welcome!

100% is shown for a cell voltage range from some 4.1xV up to 4.2V. (1)

Using cell voltage to show the state of charge only works if one allows the battery to settle for some time - while charging or riding the charge % are very inaccurate (up to nonsense values)

This should normally be the sign that the charging current  drops below a certain threshold and charging is finished. A Li Ion charger should stop charging at this point. As it seems from reports here this threshold is set too high for most chargers.

As written above - wait fir the green led and add some 1/2-2 hours. For more detailed decission you would need to measure the charging current.

The BMS has an overcharge protection and balances the cells. The balancing happens mainly while the app already reports 100% charge but the charger light is red until about some timeframe after it turned green.

Details on li ion charging:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

For (much) more details take a look at 

Edit: (1) charge % are simply calculated from battery voltage 4.1xV (and above) * 20 cells == 100%, 3.3V*20 cells = 66V == 0%

Thanks very much for the reply. As it happens the charger has just gone green and calmed down fan wise. I'll leave it plugged in for another couple of hours!

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Charging is a 2 phase process.  Just gonna use some random numbers I don't know what battery and charger you've got.  Stage 1 the voltage rises from say 70 to 84 volts at 5A.  Once it hits 84V that "looks like" 100%.  But it's not really full yet (unplug and you'll see the voltage fall).  Stage 2 holds the voltage at 84V while the current reduces from 5A to perhaps 0.25A and then the charge stops and the light goes green.  It'll report 100% during the entire stage 2 phase while the charger is active.

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I would trust the charger over the app.

Also, keep the charger in after it goes green for a few hours, and you'll get ~10% extra energy (edit: actually that already happens before the green light, the point is to keep the charger in and not end right when something shows 100%). Anything over 100% voltage (the 100% voltage is lower than the max voltage) is shown as 100%, but it goes up to 111%! So if you need range...

Edited by meepmeepmayer
correction
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7 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

I would trust the charger over the app.

Also, keep the charger in after it goes green for a few hours, and you'll get ~10% extra energy. Anything over 100% voltage (the 100% voltage is lower than the max voltage) is shown as 100%, but it goes up to 111%! So if you need range...

I hate to call you out on this, but all of my lithium chargers are dead stopped when the green light comes on.  I used Kill-A-Watt to watch the chargers' energy consumption.  Maybe my humor detector is broken, not sure ... there's is precious little charge to add after 250mA is reached.

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20 minutes ago, xorbe said:

I hate to call you out on this, but all of my lithium chargers are dead stopped when the green light comes on.  I used Kill-A-Watt to watch the chargers' energy consumption.  Maybe my humor detector is broken, not sure ... there's is precious little charge to add after 250mA is reached.

You are right. Green light and 100% are not the same. Green light is more like max voltage.

The point was to say that it doesn't end when 100% appears:) Post above edited.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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Thanks for the replies all. The charger seems kinda DIY project looking to me (not totally fair but it doesn’t ooze quality either) and I just didn’t want to assume that it wasn’t going to overcharge the cells and assplode my house 😛

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Get a timer. Charge until 100% and for another 2h should be enough.

Green light means that the bms has interrupted the charging or that the maximum voltage has been reached. It doesn't necessarily mean charging is over.

Battery deterioration doesn't occur in hours but days and weeks at 100% and it occurs slowly so no need to baby the stuff.

If the bms had a setting to balance and stop charging at 80% then that wouldn be a great way to increase life span. But to charge to 80% by interrupting the charge isn't the same thing. Complications can occur long term.

Edited by alcatraz
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15 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Get a timer. Charge until 100% and for another 2h should be enough.

Green light means that the bms has interrupted the charging or that the maximum voltage has been reached. It doesn't necessarily mean charging is over.

All the chargers "historicly" had a low current threshold to cut off charging so trickle charging is prevented. Don't know when, why or how it happened that they do not turn off anymore - or they really never did and just turned the led green once the threshold is reached?

From the last reports of members here who looked closer at charging and measured the current their chargers turned the leds green once the charging current dropped to about 0.7A. for their battery configuration 0.3A would have been the right threshold and afair was reached about an hour after led turned green.

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It gets even more interesting when it comes to discharging! 
 

Battery percentages according to apps (from memory):

New Gotway app (iOS): 0%
Old Gotway app (iOS): 50%
Darknessbot: 45%
EUC world: 44%
Wheellog: 40%

Somewhere between 40-50% feels about right given my distance today, but WTF is with the new Gotway app showing 0%?!
 

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  • 4 weeks later...

https://www.pmbatterychargers.com/900W-1008V-5A-7A-9A-current-adjustable-digital-display-partial-charge-lithium-li-ion-battery-charger-for-100V-gotway-free-shipping-p2579895.html

Hi guys,

This smart-charger will work for MSP 100V ?
what are your recommendations about smart charger (not fast-charger !) for MSP charging ?
 

We are looking for something that can deliver more amps in a controllable meaner.
also charge at 80% , 90% ....

 

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38 minutes ago, Meserias said:

https://www.pmbatterychargers.com/900W-1008V-5A-7A-9A-current-adjustable-digital-display-partial-charge-lithium-li-ion-battery-charger-for-100V-gotway-free-shipping-p2579895.html

Hi guys,

This smart-charger will work for MSP 100V ?
what are your recommendations about smart charger (not fast-charger !) for MSP charging ?
 

We are looking for something that can deliver more amps in a controllable meaner.
also charge at 80% , 90% ....

 

It's stating "charger for 100V gotway". So it should work?

They also state "GX-16 5pin Plug: 1+ 2+ and 4- 5-, that is better choice than 1+ 5-, because it will run the risk of overheating puns if charging at 9amps."

So maybe someone here could confirm the correct pinout?! Or check it with the charge plug. As they mention two pins should be used for + and - to prevent overheating of the plug you should check this with your wheel. Afair here was not too long ago a discussion about GW charge plug using one or two pins per line - unfortionately i don't remember the outcome...

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I bought one, and it works fine for my Nikola+ 100V, so it should also work fine for the MSP 100V.  Just because it supports 9A doesn't mean you have to use it, 5A works too.

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