New long cruiser

[Stillhart]

On 3/7/2020 at 3:09 PM, Mike Sacristan said:

...

When it comes to 84v 1554Wh wheels they are "the same".
So the 16x, Nikola, MSX and 18XL are "the same".
Since they are "the same" then you can just go ahead and get the cheapest one...

 

This school of thought appeals to me.  I get the feeling that the differences within these wheels are fairly nitpicky at the end of the day, and people who have only one tend to like the one they have.  Not that there aren't differences, but for someone who doesn't know any better, you could just pick one and enjoy it.  I am very into audiophile headphones and you run into a similar thing at the high end of that hobby too... all the $1500+ headphones are amazing and, while there are differences, you could pretty much pick any and be super happy.

There's an Ali seller who has the Nik 84 for ~$1500 right now and the 100v for ~$1700.  Very tempting to just get the Nik 100 and have the best of the best right now.  I do worry that it might be a bit too much wheel for a noobie, but that's what speed limiting is for, right?  :-D

EDIT - Ooops the 100V is the smaller battery config.  Still, ~$1500 for the Nik 84v 1600Wh or MSX 84v 1600Wh.  Bummer about that white strip on the 84v Nik.  lol

Edited April 12, 2020 by Stillhart

[.....]

I dont think they are all 'the same'. Just as a ford tempo and honda civic are similar but not the same. The devil is in the details. Specs may be similar, but isnt it the small details we feel as a rider, something to pay attention to? Then theres also maintenance, dependability, and parts availability. Im sure most the top contenders are great wheels, but to assume the differences are so minor that it doesnt matter... Not sure I can jive on that.  Of course, some people are ocd and LOOK for differences and some people like to avoid focusing on that and just ride.

[Stillhart]

1 minute ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I dont think they are all 'the same'. Just as a ford tempo and honda civic are similar but not the same. The devil is in the details. Specs may be similar, but isnt it the small details we feel as a rider, something to pay attention to? Then theres also maintenance, dependability, and parts availability. Im sure most the top contenders are great wheels, but to assume the differences are so minor that it doesnt matter... Not sure I can jive on that.  Of course, some people are ocd and LOOK for differences and some people like to avoid focusing on that and just ride.

Well I took that quote out of context.  In context, the guy was saying how he was riding any of them at the limit, etc.  To me it's more about how in broad strokes, they're basically the same.  Of course there are differences and of course they're in the details.  But as long as there aren't any major differences that aren't just details, that's good enough for a certain subset of buyers.

[Mike Sacristan]

2 hours ago, Stillhart said:

This school of thought appeals to me.  I get the feeling that the differences within these wheels are fairly nitpicky at the end of the day, and people who have only one tend to like the one they have.  Not that there aren't differences, but for someone who doesn't know any better, you could just pick one and enjoy it.  I am very into audiophile headphones and you run into a similar thing at the high end of that hobby too... all the $1500+ headphones are amazing and, while there are differences, you could pretty much pick any and be super happy.

There's an Ali seller who has the Nik 84 for ~$1500 right now and the 100v for ~$1700.  Very tempting to just get the Nik 100 and have the best of the best right now.  I do worry that it might be a bit too much wheel for a noobie, but that's what speed limiting is for, right?  :-D

EDIT - Ooops the 100V is the smaller battery config.  Still, ~$1500 for the Nik 84v 1600Wh or MSX 84v 1600Wh.  Bummer about that white strip on the 84v Nik.  lol

Exactly. In the end people will like the one they have and usually the one they ride the most. I used to ride the hell out of my MSX and now after riding the 16X for so long the MSX has become a wobbly nightmare to ride haha. And it sucks off-road *for me* compared to the 16X. But that's just because I have become so accustomed to the 16X with the CX tyre.

The thing is when you own both a 16X and a MSX and you paid 1500 dollars for the MSX and 2000 dollars for the 16X you kind of wonder where the 500 dollars went!

I own HD800, Shure SE530 and SE846, DT770, AKG701, some external amps, etc... as you start solving "problems" and looking for improvement the cost becomes higher and higher. My SE846 sound better in an iPhone with the standard lightning to 2.5 jack than my HD800 with my external dac+amp. But if I just had the DT770 and a basic filo amp I would be just as happy.

The Nik+ is a great wheel although it can feel a bit cumbersome in the beginning. Still Petra weighs 57kg and is a Tesla rider and she got it up to 57kmh the other day. If a little bird like her can do it anyone can. The Nik+ is in it's own little category of "fast wheels" with the other 100v wheels. They too are also "the same". 

1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I dont think they are all 'the same'. Just as a ford tempo and honda civic are similar but not the same. The devil is in the details. Specs may be similar, but isnt it the small details we feel as a rider, something to pay attention to? Then theres also maintenance, dependability, and parts availability. Im sure most the top contenders are great wheels, but to assume the differences are so minor that it doesnt matter... Not sure I can jive on that.  Of course, some people are ocd and LOOK for differences and some people like to avoid focusing on that and just ride.

Oh there are definitely differences and that is also why I wrote that they are "the same" in quotes. I could have written similar without quotes but it wouldn't be as thought provoking and rather obvious. Just like Coke and Pepsi. For me nothing can beat the feel of the 16X with the CX tyre. The 18XL and the Z10 do come close though. The Z10 is missing a bit of ziiiip. And battery haha.

But the wheels I mentioned are in essence "the same". And what separates them is the details. And if the details are of more value to someone then they should factor that into their choice.

The 18XL has a top speed of 50kmh. Then you get soft tilt-back or hard tilt-back.
The MSX has a top speed of around 53kmh before you start hearing the 5 beeps. Sure you can push beyond that but then you are playing with fire.
The 18XL has a bit more range.
Both can take a beating. They have different handles and trolley handles. 18XL has better lights. MSX has rear turning lights.
MSX has a beefier tire. 18XL has a nice narrow one.
18XL climbs hills better. MSX has higher pedals.
18XL has speakers.

Where did the 300 dollars go?

Now if they both cost the same.. sure. But they don't. An MSX can be bought for 1500 USD and an 18XL can be bought for a little over 1800 USD with large pedals.

Those details better be good! And if have one you will still want the other. 

A lot of people get anxious when thinking about buying a new wheel because there are so many choices.
When I tell them that they are all the same and that they should just buy the cheapest this is when you find out which one they want! 

- No they're not the same the 18XL has this and that and this and that.
- Ok then get the 18XL!