New long cruiser

[Leucistic]

Hello guys. I have a hard time making a decision for my long distance cruiser. I have been riding for a year now with my KS16s. I love my "little" wheel and don't want to sell it so I can use it for short trips. My weight is 75kg and 172cm. I like to carve when I`m riding. I narrowed it down to 3 different beasts. Haven't had the opportunity to test ride these wheels though.

King Song 16X is the first choice, but I'm hesitating with this one, because from what I've read, you should stay under 40km/h. My current cruising speed is about 30-32km/h depending on battery level. So there would not be much of a speed increase. This would be a good all-rounder but I think then my 16s would not get miles anymore, unless when using public transports or going for short shop trips. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Mike Sacristan

Nikola+ 1845Wh is the second choice. This one would give me more head room for speed, but I'm not a speed demon. There have been bad situations with cyclists couple of times when overtaking. As soon as they see what I'm riding they speed up to prevent me passing. Then I have hoped that I have reserves to make it easier to go on my way. Trolley handle is not so important when I'm not shopping, but only cruising and commuting. I don't have to lift the wheel and carry it home, because I'm living at ground floor. I like to ride in forests too, but not so technical stuff, only easy single trails and wide forest paths. Don't know would Nikola be good at this forest and gravel surface and our bike lanes are bad sometimes. The quality of this wheel is also making me rethink after reading EcoDrift's service statistics. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Marty Backe

King Song 18Xl 2200w + large pedals is the last option. This would be the comfy cruiser. Now having the same motor as 16X, is the 40km/h max rule here too. I think this one would be the safest option, because it's been around for so long. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Lutalo

This is really hard. So many good wheels. Please help. My wheel fever is off the chart. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by FunkyWheeling

[Sebrios]

I'd go for an MSP (not as comfy) or Nikola,

or even a Tesla that can cruise at 48km/h.. its super light and nimble... I wished they had a Tesla 100V. That would be my dream wheel

[meepmeepmayer]

All your options are great. Just buy the one you want. MSP, Nik, 16X, 18XL.

See also here (there's the 84V 2100Wh Nikola if you want range, or a glorious 100V 2700Wh quality mod):

[johnyz89]

2 hours ago, FunkyWheeling said:

Hello guys. I have a hard time making a decision for my long distance cruiser. I have been riding for a year now with my KS16s. I love my "little" wheel and don't want to sell it so I can use it for short trips. My weight is 75kg and 172cm. I like to carve when I`m riding. I narrowed it down to 3 different beasts. Haven't had the opportunity to test ride these wheels though.

King Song 16X is the first choice, but I'm hesitating with this one, because from what I've read, you should stay under 40km/h. My current cruising speed is about 30-32km/h depending on battery level. So there would not be much of a speed increase. This would be a good all-rounder but I think then my 16s would not get miles anymore, unless when using public transports or going for short shop trips. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Mike Sacristan

Nikola+ 1845Wh is the second choice. This one would give me more head room for speed, but I'm not a speed demon. There have been bad situations with cyclists couple of times when overtaking. As soon as they see what I'm riding they speed up to prevent me passing. Then I have hoped that I have reserves to make it easier to go on my way. Trolley handle is not so important when I'm not shopping, but only cruising and commuting. I don't have to lift the wheel and carry it home, because I'm living at ground floor. I like to ride in forests too, but not so technical stuff, only easy single trails and wide forest paths. Don't know would Nikola be good at this forest and gravel surface and our bike lanes are bad sometimes. The quality of this wheel is also making me rethink after reading EcoDrift's service statistics. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Marty Backe

King Song 18Xl 2200w + large pedals is the last option. This would be the comfy cruiser. Now having the same motor as 16X, is the 40km/h max rule here too. I think this one would be the safest option, because it's been around for so long. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Lutalo

This is really hard. So many good wheels. Please help. My wheel fever is off the chart. 

Why not MSP or MSX 100v ? They are faster and safer than Tesla and 16X - and they handle higher speeds better. Wheel diameter is crucial when it comes to speed and safety. 18XL is also an option, you can cruise at about 40-45 kmh (real speed, not app speed) but 100V MSX is really outperforming it - 50kmh constatnt speed is not a big deal. So if you really need a speed boos after 16s go for 18 inch wheel.

Edited March 5, 2020 by johnyz89

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, FunkyWheeling said:

Hello guys. I have a hard time making a decision for my long distance cruiser. I have been riding for a year now with my KS16s. I love my "little" wheel and don't want to sell it so I can use it for short trips. My weight is 75kg and 172cm. I like to carve when I`m riding. I narrowed it down to 3 different beasts. Haven't had the opportunity to test ride these wheels though.

King Song 16X is the first choice, but I'm hesitating with this one, because from what I've read, you should stay under 40km/h. My current cruising speed is about 30-32km/h depending on battery level. So there would not be much of a speed increase. This would be a good all-rounder but I think then my 16s would not get miles anymore, unless when using public transports or going for short shop trips. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Mike Sacristan

Nikola+ 1845Wh is the second choice. This one would give me more head room for speed, but I'm not a speed demon. There have been bad situations with cyclists couple of times when overtaking. As soon as they see what I'm riding they speed up to prevent me passing. Then I have hoped that I have reserves to make it easier to go on my way. Trolley handle is not so important when I'm not shopping, but only cruising and commuting. I don't have to lift the wheel and carry it home, because I'm living at ground floor. I like to ride in forests too, but not so technical stuff, only easy single trails and wide forest paths. Don't know would Nikola be good at this forest and gravel surface and our bike lanes are bad sometimes. The quality of this wheel is also making me rethink after reading EcoDrift's service statistics. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Marty Backe

King Song 18Xl 2200w + large pedals is the last option. This would be the comfy cruiser. Now having the same motor as 16X, is the 40km/h max rule here too. I think this one would be the safest option, because it's been around for so long. With this wheel I'm a fan of @Lutalo

This is really hard. So many good wheels. Please help. My wheel fever is off the chart. 

I really think the 18XL isn't worth considering in 2020. If you want KingSong, seriously go with the 16X. But, it's still my opinion that the Nikola Plus is the best riding wheel around

[bigwave]

@FunkyWheeling you should have a look at this thread I started. It has excellent information about the exact wheels you have asked about.

I ended up buying a 18XL and could not be happier with it. I think if I was your weight I would have purchased a 16X. 

[AtlasP]

4 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I really think the 18XL isn't worth considering in 2020.

MB: Whatever happened to "you can't go wrong with any of these wheels by this point"? =/ ..."not [even] worth considering [at all]"?--you have to be kidding me.

OP: For a contrary opinion to this, I haven't ridden the 16X but I have the 100v Nikola (with ~500 miles on it) with similar 3"-wide tire, and I'd still take/recommend an 18XL over an 84v Nikola (or any similar 3"-wide-tire wheel) for speeds under 30 mph, any day of the week without hesitation. It's my opinion the KS18XL is still the best-handling all-around 84v/under-30-mph wheel. (Leaving aside discussion of 100v wheels.)

I'm not saying this to start an argument or ask anyone to agree with me, but simply as a counterpoint to his perplexing outright dismissal of one of the best and most popular wheels of the past several years. The 18XL is certainly still a very worthwhile contender, and I would encourage anyone to definitely try to find an opportunity to ride some of these wheels to feel the difference for yourself because it's pretty drastic.

Edited March 6, 2020 by AtlasP

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

MB: Whatever happened to "you can't go wrong with any of these wheels by this point"? =/ ..."not [even] worth considering [at all]"?--you have to be kidding me.

OP: For a contrary opinion to this, I haven't ridden the 16X but I have the 100v Nikola (with ~500 miles on it) with similar 3"-wide tire, and I'd still take/recommend an 18XL over an 84v Nikola (or any similar 3"-wide-tire wheel) for speeds under 30 mph, any day of the week without hesitation. It's my opinion the KS18XL is still the best-handling all-around 84v/under-30-mph wheel. (Leaving aside discussion of 100v wheels.)

I'm not saying this to start an argument or ask anyone to agree with me, but simply as a counterpoint to his perplexing outright dismissal of one of the best and most popular wheels of the past several years. The 18XL is certainly still a very worthwhile contender, and I would encourage anyone to definitely try to find an opportunity to ride some of these wheels to feel the difference for yourself because it's pretty drastic.

Of course it's just my opinion. You may be quoting me from my recent MSP video. I said the same there. Skip the 18XL. But sure, if you get one you'll still love it (as apparently you do). I don't see the contradiction.

As I've been saying lately, I think time has passed the XL by. I used to love the ACM, and my ACM2's are still great wheels. But time has passed them by.

We don't buy wheels in a vacuum. If we did, then yes, buy the KS18XL. It's a great wheel. Instead, we compare them against the current offerings. The 18XL is an old wheel with a circa 2017 tire. The KS16X is such a better wheel. And if someone doesn't want to put up with max speed limitations and speed throttling, Gotway offers better wheels.

And so that there's no misunderstanding, what I just wrote is my opinion. I'm not presenting it as fact.

I'm glad you're offering a counterpoint, and it doesn't bother me the least that you consider my favorite wheel, the Nikola, an inferior wheel. To each their own and variety makes the world go round 

[.....]

I like my  18L, but I'd imagine it is becoming outpaced. What makes it great is that I bought mine very lightly used at a steal, put pedals and upgraded trolley, and have a solid wheel for less than most ANY of the newer versions. I think the BULK of the risk you take is... are the batteries any good (biggest expense by far).If I was browsing only new wheels and the costs were similar, I wouldnt know what to expect now. I do know that the 18L of mine can do the 50kmh fairly easily and hold it. Its such a great time to be euc shopping as the basic premise is the same and trusted, now you just get to chase the details of what compromises youll take for what. I still put a little importance in designs that are proven, but it may be unfounded.  I think the real answer lies in... buy a bunch of 'em, trade around when anything new comes along, and send ME your leftovers...

Edited March 6, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[bigwave]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

We don't buy wheels in a vacuum. If we did, then yes, buy the KS18XL. It's a great wheel. Instead, we compare them against the current offerings. The 18XL is an old wheel with a circa 2017 tire. The KS16X is such a better wheel. And if someone doesn't want to put up with max speed limitations and speed throttling, Gotway offers better wheels.

I just bought a KS18XL for my first wheel mainly on the recommendation of several forum members after asking originally about the 16X and Nikola.

@Mike Sacristan wrote an excellent post about the above wheels and suggested the 18XL . His opinion. @Espen R 18XL

@mrelwood provide his opinion and suggested the Nikola . @Unventor thought the 16X was something for me to stay away from for reasons he explained . @travsformation After telling me how good the 18XL was ,he said if he could keep one it would be the 16X.

There will be always product innovation. There is always a new iPhone, new model car, GoPro etc . Bigger , Better (maybe), Faster blah blah blah. But as my buddy says about the iPhone “ do my texts go any faster”,  it doesn’t mean the previous model has been passed by. Take the bicycle industry. Mountain bikes in particular has seen a industry wide departure from the 26” tire. 27, 27.5 soon to be 29” . Better performance for everyone because that 26” full suspension XTR equipped bike you have that’s 10 yrs old working just like the day you bought it, is old news. Who benefits from this? Well, everyone who buys into the new technology but the biggest benefactor is the bike manufacturer who naturally sells more product .

@Marty Backe because of your ability to test a variety of product you have bought into the EUC industry moving to the 3” tire. You are right, it ( 3” ) is the now and the future.  I very much enjoy your channel and respect your opinion. In this case I disagree. IMO , the current version of the 18XL is still relevant in the market. What ever wheels  Gotway or Inmotion make will have an impact on that relevance but King Song will ultimately decide the future of the 18XL . If sales are still strong then a bigger, better and faster ( 3” tire too) 18XL will make the current model not desirable.  Like any manufacturer, upgrades sell product . So Marty, please keep making those wonderful videos cause I need to know what my next wheel going to be. After all, I’ve only had my wheel 3 weeks and I need another one! Lol

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by bigwave

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, bigwave said:

I just bought a KS18XL for my first wheel mainly on the recommendation of several forum members after asking originally about the 16X and Nikola.

@Mike Sacristan wrote an excellent post about the above wheels and suggested the 18XL . His opinion. @Espen R 18XL

@mrelwood provide his opinion and suggested the Nikola . @Unventor thought the 16X was something for me to stay away from for reasons he explained . @travsformation After telling me how good the 18XL was ,he said if he could keep one it would be the 16X.

There will be always product innovation. There is always a new iPhone, new model car, GoPro etc . Bigger , Better (maybe), Faster blah blah blah. But as my buddy says about the iPhone “ do my texts go any faster”,  it doesn’t mean the previous model has been passed by. Take the bicycle industry. Mountain bikes in particular has seen a industry wide departure from the 26” tire. 27, 27.5 soon to be 29” . Better performance for everyone because that 26” full suspension XTR equipped bike you have that’s 10 yrs old working just like the day you bought is old news. Who benefits from this? Well, everyone who buys into the new technology but the biggest benefactor is the bike manufacturer who naturally sells more product .

@Marty Backe because of your ability to test a variety of product you have bought into the EUC industry moving to the 3” tire. You are right, it ( 3” ) is the now and the future.  I very much enjoy your channel and respect your opinion. In this case I disagree. IMO , the current version of the 18XL is still relevant in the market. What ever wheels  Gotway or Inmotion make will have an impact on that relevance but King Song will ultimately decide the future of the 18XL . If sales are still strong then an bigger, better and faster ( 3” tire too) 18XL will make the current model not desirable.  Like any manufacturer, upgrades sell product . So Marty, please keep making those wonderful videos cause I need to know what my next wheel going to be. After all, I’ve only had my wheel 3 weeks and I need another one! Lol

Congratulations. I'm sure you're excited. And as you know, I've said any wheel currently in production will be a great wheel.

We just argue/discuss the finer details. It wouldn't be very interesting if everyone bought my favorite wheel (Nikola). You did what we all do; take input from a variety of sources and weigh those inputs against your life experiences.

[Meserias]

dear initiator MSP/MSX pedal angle could be an issue if you like long rides (like me) or wide forest paths.
also, keep in mind that nothing it's above KingSong trolley handle ergonomics...well done KingSong I must say.

KS18XL it's like an Cadillac you don't' steer to much just drive ....
KS16X will give you more fun

[travsformation]

@FunkyWheeling If you've been riding for a year and weight 75 kg, I don't think the 16X is a bad option at all. It's gotten a lot of bad rap because of faceplants stemming acceleration at high speed (on previous firmware versions too), but if you're experienced and take this into account (adapt to the wheel's limitations, set a speed alarm for 40 km/h and accelerate very carefully when above that speed), I don't think it should be an issue. It's a great wheel, very nimble and maneuverable, very fun to ride, and easy to cruise on.

The 18XL is also an excellent wheel, very well-suited for long rides. It has an overall, very grounded feel to it, and is very well balanced. I'd probably choose a legacy 2000W 18XL over the 2200W. At this point, I'm not sure whether that recommendation is entirely founded, I haven't heard of any issues with the 2200W version, but it isn't as time-proven as the legacy version.

If you want to go the GW way....consider the MSP or the Nikola. From what I read, you'll really enjoy the torque compared to the MSX.

[Leucistic]

10 hours ago, bigwave said:

@FunkyWheeling you should have a look at this thread I started. It has excellent information about the exact wheels you have asked about.

Well this was an eye opener. Thank you all for very good dated answers about wheels. As more and more I read these answers it lures me to the dark side called GW. 

If I was shopping for first wheel, I would go with 18XL in a heartbeat. Speed throttling is the same as 16x at 50%? With KS that pedal tiltback scares me. If I go with Nikola I still have decent backup wheel if I see smoke and flames . Other thing is that I have very wide pelvis. So wide that I could not ride a road bike with narrow pedals (Q-factor). Loved the gearing though so I had to add spacers to both pedals to get wider stance. On that note I think wider wheel could suit me better. After looking prices for both wheels they are almost identical if buying from local or reputable seller. 16X is a little cheaper. It seems having a taste of King Song cake I now want to taste that forbidden fruit. Will it lead to eviction from paradise or lead me to enlightenment?

[Unventor]

@bigwave I liked you long post above. I am not quoting it as it is unfair to cut it out of context.

As a side comment in a first wheel recommendation I chose the KS18L/XL due to it being versatile and fairly intuitive to ride. The KS16X is my fun to ride wheel, but understanding its behaviour and limitation take some fair bit of miles on an EUC to understand. 

If I only had to keep one wheel it would be a last batch of 2000w fw 2.0 version of KS18XL. Luckily I don't have to argue and can afford more wheels. 

As for new wheels, I am pretty stoked about next months announcement from Inmotion. If have managed to iron out the issues that postponed the 7th Jan announcement remains to be seen. But once we see detailed specs I think you will see why I find this the most interesting news since I joined EUC community 2 years ago. 

I will go so far to say this:I expect this to be super awesome, nothing less. 

I  do hope @Liamfind from Inmotion don't forget out forum here. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by Unventor

[mike_bike_kite]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

If I only had to keep one wheel it would be a last batch of 2000w fw 2.0 version of KS18XL.

Why not the latest version of the XL? Is it just that the new motor is less proven or are there known issues with the 2200W version?

[Leucistic]

3 hours ago, travsformation said:

@FunkyWheeling If you've been riding for a year and weight 75 kg, I don't think the 16X is a bad option at all. It's gotten a lot of bad rap because of faceplants stemming acceleration at high speed (on previous firmware versions too), but if you're experienced and take this into account (adapt to the wheel's limitations, set a speed alarm for 40 km/h and accelerate very carefully when above that speed), I don't think it should be an issue. It's a great wheel, very nimble and maneuverable, very fun to ride, and easy to cruise on.

Absolutely! I'm all about fun, forest, carving and dancing on wheel. Safety first and speed not high on my list. Had couple of over leans on fast forest paths and I was really sad. My favorite forest path is wide and about 5km long around lake with couple of really big hills. Tried to keep momentum and speed to the top and resulted crawling speed if not over lean. 16X would tickle most of my needs and would compliment with my city wheel. Need to upgrade my 16s pedals to XL size asap.

[Joker10]

I am 210lb and ride my 18l over 40kmh all the time.  But I will back off when I am climbing or descending a hill.  I would do that with any wheel though.  There are many great options.  I went from the 16s to the 18l.  Never ridden a 16x, have been on a m super.  I find that I like the flat comfortable pedals.  If i am not comfortable I am not going to enjoy the ride.  You are lighter than me so Foot discomfort might not be an issue.  

[Fuerte]

I am a large dude and I have  a 100 volt MSX with the bigger Nikola pedals and it is pretty much perfect for longer rides. If you want to go faster and still have the benefit of the bigger diameter wheel, that is where I would go. The MSP is also awesome from the reviews I have seen, but it is slightly slower. There will always be a better wheel that is coming, but I would say the MSX or MSP would be the best choices. Again, your preference will determine which one is best for you.

[Zwheeler]

I have the same dilemma that @FunkyWheeling has. I too own a KS16S and am looking for something with better range and maybe 18-19" wheel. For some reason, I am interested about MSX.

Having said that, there seems to be two popular versions of this wheel available in Chinese webstores:

• 84V / 1600W: about USD 1.500
• 100V / 1800W: about  USD 2.000

Of course the large capacity / higher voltage battery gives better range and more power to the engine, but is the difference really that big. Is it worth USD 500?

Or to phrase this another way: Do I really feel the difference between these two? I don't drive that fast, and I don't think that I'll travel more than 100km(60mi) / day anyway

-Z-

[mike_bike_kite]

As I understand it, the higher voltage batteries need more power to travel the same distance. Those 2 options "should" give the same range. The 100V one will just be slightly quicker, a bit heavier and $500 more expensive. 

[Unventor]

5 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

As I understand it, the higher voltage batteries need more power to travel the same distance. Those 2 options "should" give the same range. The 100V one will just be slightly quicker, a bit heavier and $500 more expensive. 

I got it explain this way. Higher volts is nothing to do with range (only marginal).

But it can better cope with high demand as you need to drain less amps. This is also why as a battery discharge it lowers in volts so to maintain same power (effect, in watts) you drain even faster the volts. As power = volts * amps. So high speed leads to cutout due to not having enough power to maintain balance. 

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE
spelling/grammar

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

Why not the latest version of the XL? Is it just that the new motor is less proven or are there known issues with the 2200W version?

I might be wrong, but yes I am under the impression that it is a little change. But if it have the same high speed limitations as KS16X 2200W motor I don't know. Nor have I tested this.

So like you said it is what I know is proven to work vs a change I know little about (yet). 

[Marty Backe]

41 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said:

As I understand it, the higher voltage batteries need more power to travel the same distance. Those 2 options "should" give the same range. The 100V one will just be slightly quicker, a bit heavier and $500 more expensive. 

That is not true. From my experience testing 100-volt vs 84-volt models, if both wheels are ridden in the same manner, they get the same gas mileage. So the 100-volt 1800wh MSX will have more range. But it does not have more power (torque). So if you're not into long rides where you would appreciate the extra 200wh of battery or the higher speed, then save the money and get the MSX.

@Zwheeler, I would seriously try and get the MSP though.