New long cruiser

[mike_bike_kite]

My apologies then, I'll try and read up a bit on the subject.

[Marty Backe]

29 minutes ago, /Dev/Null said:

I was literally looking at these 3 options this morning & chose the Nik+.    This would be an upgrade from my V10.  I chose what I thought would have the most safety margin @ 30km/h, as I consider this the max speed that I need.  I do mostly recreation with an occasional commute.  I really wanted an upgrade in every way, hence wanted the 100v wheel.  I think I'll keep my V10 for commuting duties under 15 miles.  Nik+ for recreation on the weekends.   The top speed of Nik+ still doesn't help me around my area as the roads outside my subdivision are 40-45mph and people regularly go 50-55mph...The only other wheel I considered was the MSP, but I think I'm going to wait a few revisions for this before I would purchase one.

I literally know multiple local riders who started with a V10(F) and then bought the Nikola. They rarely ride the V10 anymore.

[Leucistic]

36 minutes ago, /Dev/Null said:

I was literally looking at these 3 options this morning & chose the Nik+.    This would be an upgrade from my V10.  I chose what I thought would have the most safety margin @ 30km/h, as I consider this the max speed that I need.  I do mostly recreation with an occasional commute.  I really wanted an upgrade in every way, hence wanted the 100v wheel.  I think I'll keep my V10 for commuting duties under 15 miles.  Nik+ for recreation on the weekends.   The top speed of Nik+ still doesn't help me around my area as the roads outside my subdivision are 40-45mph and people regularly go 50-55mph...The only other wheel I considered was the MSP, but I think I'm going to wait a few revisions for this before I would purchase one.

This was exactly what I was thinking too. You just read my mind. Not making this any easier to decide. Good choise 

[travsformation]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

That is not true. From my experience testing 100-volt vs 84-volt models, if both wheels are ridden in the same manner, they get the same gas mileage. So the 100-volt 1800wh MSX will have more range. But it does not have more power (torque). So if you're not into long rides where you would appreciate the extra 200wh of battery or the higher speed, then save the money and get the MSX.

@Zwheeler, I would seriously try and get the MSP though.

From what I gather, folks are getting considerably less range on the 100V...but that has little to do with the wheel, and much to do with riding speed and style (hot-dogging)

If I were to get one of the 3, based on everything I've read and seen, I'd probably go for the MSP because of the torque

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[Marty Backe]

21 minutes ago, travsformation said:

From what I gather, folks are getting considerably less range on the 100V...but that has little to do with the wheel, and much to do with riding speed and style (hot-dogging)

If I were to get one of the 3, based on everything I've read and seen, I'd probably go for the MSP because of the torque

Absolutely true. I just want to correct any misconception that 100-volt wheels get less range. They don't. But of course a lot of the guys that get these wheels run them hard and fast, which burns through the batteries  

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, /Dev/Null said:

I guess I'll find out soon :-)  I was under the impression the nik+ was much heavier/larger than the V10 and harder to transport.  The V10 fits nicely in the rear seat rearwhell of my subcompact car.  I'm hoping the nik+ does as well but I guess we'll seei.

Transporting wheels is a different topic. I've been talking about riding them 

Yeah, next to the V10, the Nikola is going to feel like a beast. Both size and weight.

[Zwheeler]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

 

@Zwheeler, I would seriously try and get the MSP though.

Dear Marty: That's a really good point. However, according to some Chinese webshops, the prices go (roughly) like this:

• MSX 84V / 1600W / 2.000W motor: about USD 1.500
• MSX 100V / 1800W / 2.200W motor: about USD 2,000
• MSP 100V / 1600W / 2.500W motor: about USD 2,000

If I was placed blinfolded (please don't :-) on each one of these wheels and told to drive a certain test track, would I notice any difference? After all, all these  wheels come fairly close to each other. So, the question is: Is there any Big Difference between those wheels, after all?

-Z-

 

[Marty Backe]

30 minutes ago, Zwheeler said:

Dear Marty: That's a really good point. However, according to some Chinese webshops, the prices go (roughly) like this:

• MSX 84V / 1600W / 2.000W motor: about USD 1.500
• MSX 100V / 1800W / 2.200W motor: about USD 2,000
• MSP 100V / 1600W / 2.500W motor: about USD 2,000

If I was placed blinfolded (please don't :-) on each one of these wheels and told to drive a certain test track, would I notice any difference? After all, all these  wheels come fairly close to each other. So, the question is: Is there any Big Difference between those wheels, after all?

-Z-

 

If the test track were basically flat, and you weren't trying to go 40-mph, you would be hard pressed to notice any difference. If your test track included steep hills, than the MSP would clearly be better.

But for day-to-day general riding, they all feel the same. I can attest to that from personal experience.

[xorbe]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:42 AM, FunkyWheeling said:

[...] This one would give me more head room for speed, but I'm not a speed demon. There have been bad situations with cyclists couple of times when overtaking. As soon as they see what I'm riding they speed up to prevent me passing. Then I have hoped that I have reserves to make it easier to go on my way. [...]

The struggle is real, I get this too.  I get stuck behind them, then they take it up a notch, okay fine, but then they drop back down, but I don't have enough oomph to pass with opposing traffic, and they also run up on other bikes, creating a train I'd have to pass.  My commute is short, so I wind up just trailing them for 5 minutes, meh.

[Mike Sacristan]

4 hours ago, Zwheeler said:

Dear Marty: That's a really good point. However, according to some Chinese webshops, the prices go (roughly) like this:

• MSX 84V / 1600W / 2.000W motor: about USD 1.500
• MSX 100V / 1800W / 2.200W motor: about USD 2,000
• MSP 100V / 1600W / 2.500W motor: about USD 2,000

If I was placed blinfolded (please don't :-) on each one of these wheels and told to drive a certain test track, would I notice any difference? After all, all these  wheels come fairly close to each other. So, the question is: Is there any Big Difference between those wheels, after all?

-Z-

 

If they all cost USD 1500 which one would you buy?

The slowest one with the smallest battery?
The 20% faster one with 15% battery?
The one with more torque and 15% bigger battery with more modern cells and a better headlight?

This is why McDonalds sells double (even triple) cheeseburgers AND Big Macs.

If you bought an MSX 84V and after one year realised that you want more torque/speed/battery would you pay $500 to upgrade to a MSP or 100V?

[Leucistic]

Thank you all. Can't believe I just made decision about my first performance wheel. Hope there is many to follow. So I placed order of Nikola+ 100v 1845Wh. This wasn't an easy job considering how many good wheels there is. Cant't wait till that ice and snow clears away. Hope that @Zwheeler finds best wheel for you, but if you go for MSP i surely want to test it.

4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

This is why McDonalds sells double (even triple) cheeseburgers AND Big Macs.

 This fast food comparison made me laugh. They are all burgers. Taste so good but bad for you. Talking about bad jokes is the Nikola a whopper then? Served with flames and charcoal taste . Anyway I'm so stoked.

[Mike Sacristan]

3 hours ago, FunkyWheeling said:

Thank you all. Can't believe I just made decision about my first performance wheel. Hope there is many to follow. So I placed order of Nikola+ 100v 1845Wh. This wasn't an easy job considering how many good wheels there is. Cant't wait till that ice and snow clears away. Hope that @Zwheeler finds best wheel for you, but if you go for MSP i surely want to test it.

 This fast food comparison made me laugh. They are all burgers. Taste so good but bad for you. Talking about bad jokes is the Nikola a whopper then? Served with flames and charcoal taste . Anyway I'm so stoked.

Congrats and great decision!
Kevin and I met up with Tobbe yesterday. Kevin was on my MSX 84v, he usually rides an electric longboard. I was on the 16X. Tobbe has a Nik+ 100v 1845Wh. It really felt great this time. I have been on it a few times earlier and even done some cruising on it. Now I am beginning to consider the Nikola+ with 2600Wh a bit more.

Incidentally I had a double Big Mac yesterday. It was good but the nicely tuned meat to bun ratio was off and it was a bit difficult to eat and basically a bit excessive. Usually I go for the triple cheeseburger though as it is much cheaper, I rarely eat fries and I get more burger for my money. Which is a shame really because there is more to life than measuring just quantity when purchasing things. Something I will hopefully get better at as time goes by.

I would place the Nik+ above the whopper. Something more special, perhaps one of the specialty angus burgers.

[Unventor]

1 minute ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Congrats and great decision!
Kevin and I met up with Tobbe yesterday. Kevin was on my MSX 84v, he usually rides an electric longboard. I was on the 16X. Tobbe has a Nik+ 100v 1845Wh. It really felt great this time. I have been on it a few times earlier and even done some cruising on it. Now I am beginning to consider the Nikola+ with 2600Wh a bit more.

Incidentally I had a double Big Mac yesterday. It was good but the nicely tuned meat to bun ratio was off and it was a bit difficult to eat and basically a bit excessive. Usually I go for the triple cheeseburger though as it is much cheaper, I rarely eat fries and I get more burger for my money. Which is a shame really because there is more to life than measuring just quantity when purchasing things. Something I will hopefully get better at as time goes by.

I would place the Nik+ above the whopper. Something more special, perhaps one of the specialty angus burgers.

I think you should wait just a moment. Or let me put it this way. I have absolutely no plan of buy a new wheel this year...but Inmotion are rattling in the bush. They said they are on track or will be with their announcement in April for their long range fastest ever inmorion (yep GW owners might laugh, but their aim is 34-35ish mph) and with a 18"like wheel wider than 2,5" and now the new stuff: suspension. Their aim off-road riders and long distance. 

From what I can pick up on WhatsApp channel over time it got me intrigued. After chatting with Liam (from Inmotion marketing), Iam not so sure that I only have 3 wheels after this summer...yes other brands build new models too. In October the 2nd new wheel launch is set. this is set to be a more traditional and smaller wheel. but no details yet. I think it could be a upgraded V10 like wheel but that is my speculations. 

[Zwheeler]

Hi all, and congrats to @FunkyWheeling about his desicion! Just can't wait a meeting to see that beast!

Having said that,

14 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

If you bought an MSX 84V and after one year realised that you want more torque/speed/battery would you pay $500 to upgrade to a MSP or 100V?

a nice bunch of good questions from @Mike Sacristan!  Don't want to quote them all, but please let me explain my position:

• The newest wheels tend to have somewhat inflated price, because that's where the manufacturers put the most effort (and the highest margin) on. That's for those who want the newest toys (and can afford it)
• Behind that (usually) comes the Old Workhorse. A best bang/buck ratio. Tested, tried out
• And even behind that comes the Toyota Camry. Does the job, but it ain't really inspiring (sorry)

So, I am over 50 yrs old. I am not that keen to get the newest toys (anymore).  Instead I am looking for the Old Workhorse. That's why I am concentrating on devices like MSX and KS18XL.

And today I had the chance to (briefly) test-drive both!

• The 84V MSX felt immediately like coming back home. A Caterpillar of sorts, but it felt truly safe and trustworthy (albeit a bit rough)
• The KS18XL was nice  also, but felt  more lively. I could not quite decide whether that is good or bad thing. Anyway, I am sure that I could fall in love with this wheel too

So, to answer Your original question: Yes, I am happy to buy the device with the best bang/buck ratio. And if something radically new (like an Inmotion with suspension) would come up, I'll glad to spend the money I initially saved to upgrade to that

Cheers,

-Z-

Edited March 7, 2020 by Zwheeler
typo

[Sebrios]

Hello @Marty Backe first of all, thanx for all the videos and posts you make. I'm a big fan... 

Just for curiosity (and all respect and admiration) I've seen that you loved the msp and say its way better than the msx, how ever, all the other videos around say they feel pretty much the same if compared to the msx100V

Have you tried the msx100V besides your 84V?

How come you have such a different opinion vs other reviewers?

... I just sold a msx84V1600W and bought a msx100V/1250W instead of the msp, because I wanted a lighter wheel... Now im wondering if the msp would have been that much better.

Any thoughts?

[Mike Sacristan]

7 hours ago, Zwheeler said:

Hi all, and congrats to @FunkyWheeling about his desicion! Just can't wait a meeting to see that beast!

Having said that,

a nice bunch of good questions from @Mike Sacristan!  Don't want to quote them all, but please let me explain my position:

• The newest wheels tend to have somewhat inflated price, because that's where the manufacturers put the most effort (and the highest margin) on. That's for those who want the newest toys (and can afford it)
• Behind that (usually) comes the Old Workhorse. A best bang/buck ratio. Tested, tried out
• And even behind that comes the Toyota Camry. Does the job, but it ain't really inspiring (sorry)

So, I am over 50 yrs old. I am not that keen to get the newest toys (anymore).  Instead I am looking for the Old Workhorse. That's why I am concentrating on devices like MSX and KS18XL.

And today I had the chance to (briefly) test-drive both!

• The 84V MSX felt immediately like coming back home. A Caterpillar of sorts, but it felt truly safe and trustworthy (albeit a bit rough)
• The KS18XL was nice  also, but felt  more lively. I could not quite decide whether that is good or bad thing. Anyway, I am sure that I could fall in love with this wheel too

So, to answer Your original question: Yes, I am happy to buy the device with the best bang/buck ratio. And if something radically new (like an Inmotion with suspension) would come up, I'll glad to spend the money I initially saved to upgrade to that

Cheers,

-Z-

Great answer! Then your questions make more sense.
As fellow riders we always want potential buyers to buy the best wheel and not suffer from buyer's remorse which is why we can be a bit "thorough" to say the least. 

When it comes to 84v 1554Wh wheels they are "the same".
So the 16x, Nikola, MSX and 18XL are "the same".
Since they are "the same" then you can just go ahead and get the cheapest one which would be the MSX 84v. I have over 8000km and it runs 100% perfectly. The shell has some scratches, the pedals are a tiny bit bent but all in all it has taken quite a beating, survived a bunch of low speed spills and tumbles and been through almost two winters. I bought mine from Intelligent Walking Store and they included a seat and mudguard when I ordered it. I don't think they include them anymore though.

Yesterday I was cruising with my friend Tobbe and he was on his Nik+ and I was on my 16X. I struggled to get to 45 kmh while he was chilling at 55 kmh. I felt it in the soul a bit. However that is a dangerous game to play.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Sebrios said:

Hello @Marty Backe first of all, thanx for all the videos and posts you make. I'm a big fan... 

Just for curiosity (and all respect and admiration) I've seen that you loved the msp and say its way better than the msx, how ever, all the other videos around say they feel pretty much the same if compared to the msx100V

Have you tried the msx100V besides your 84V?

How come you have such a different opinion vs other reviewers?

... I just sold a msx84V1600W and bought a msx100V/1250W instead of the msp, because I wanted a lighter wheel... Now im wondering if the msp would have been that much better.

Any thoughts?

To be clear, I believe I said that the MSP is better than the MSX if you do not want a very high speed wheel.

I have ridden the 100-volt MSX and the 100-volt Nikola compared to my 84-volt MSX and 84-volt Nikola. It's very hard to tell the difference between the 84 and 100 volt wheels unless you push the upper limits of their respective speeds.

But there is a dramatic difference it torque between the MSP and MSX. This translates into better hill climbing capability.

Ignoring the lights, lift switch, speakers, etc. if you want more speed stick with the MSX. If you want more enjoyment where torque is appreciated, stick with the MSP.

I don't believe I've seen any other reviewers talk about the MSP capabilities on steep hills. Most people seem to be flatlanders 

[Marty Backe]

8 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Great answer! Then your questions make more sense.
As fellow riders we always want potential buyers to buy the best wheel and not suffer from buyer's remorse which is why we can be a bit "thorough" to say the least. 

When it comes to 84v 1554Wh wheels they are "the same".
So the 16x, Nikola, MSX and 18XL are "the same".
Since they are "the same" then you can just go ahead and get the cheapest one which would be the MSX 84v. I have over 8000km and it runs 100% perfectly. The shell has some scratches, the pedals are a tiny bit bent but all in all it has taken quite a beating, survived a bunch of low speed spills and tumbles and been through almost two winters. I bought mine from Intelligent Walking Store and they included a seat and mudguard when I ordered it. I don't think they include them anymore though.

Yesterday I was cruising with my friend Tobbe and he was on his Nik+ and I was on my 16X. I struggled to get to 45 kmh while he was chilling at 55 kmh. I felt it in the soul a bit. However that is a dangerous game to play.

[jonm42]

How you can chill at 55kph on an EUC is beyond my capabilities.

[travsformation]

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

there is a dramatic difference it torque between the MSP and MSX. This translates into better hill climbing capability.

Give me torque over speed any day of the week!

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't believe I've seen any other reviewers talk about the MSP capabilities on steep hills.

EvX did a hill climb comparison, as in NYC, asphalt hill, didn't he? OK, so not an actual hill or climb, but the MSP beat the MSX by over a second...(and it was a <20sec hill)

2 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Most people seem to be flatlanders 

I misread that to say "fat Flanders" for a second there...

 

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by travsformation

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Give me torque over speed any day of the week!

EvX did a hill climb comparison, as in NYC, asphalt hill, didn't he? OK, so not an actual hill or climb, but the MSP beat the MSX by over a second...(and it was a <20sec hill)

I misread that to say "fat Flanders" for a second there...

LOL.  Perhaps either would have worked 

[fbhb]

Wrong Way! posted this video review on YouTube, in which he demonstrates in his own style of riding how much available torque the MSP really can provide!

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by fbhb

[travsformation]

6 hours ago, fbhb said:

Wrong Way! posted this video review on YouTube, in which he demonstrates in his own style of riding how much available torque the MSP really can provide!

 

Loved the review, thanks for sharing!

Between @Marty Backe's Overheat Hill and Very Steep, Wheel-Stopper Hill tests (you need to name the latter hill, Marty! I have a feeling it's going to become a new benchmark!), and this, I'm pretty much sold on the MSP!

A 100V, 18x3" wheel with the new 21700 cells, that's just as fast as the MSX, with just as much safety margin, and...that torque!!! This wheel isn't only going to appeal to speed daemons, I can envision a lot of KS fans converting to GW (including myself)

I have to say, excluding design (subjective opinion), build quality and attention to detail, GW is really killing it! I'm going to keep an eye on the MSuper line...a factory mudguard, the Nikola pedals, a cover for those speakers, several different brightness options for the headlight (and maybe some nicer LEDs, but that's not too important) and I can already imagine my next wheel...

[UniVehje]

4 hours ago, travsformation said:

I can envision a lot of KS fans converting to GW (including myself)

I have to say, excluding design (subjective opinion), build quality and attention to detail, GW is really killing it! I'm going to keep an eye on the MSuper line...a factory mudguard, the Nikola pedals, a cover for those speakers, several different brightness options for the headlight (and maybe some nicer LEDs, but that's not too important) and I can already imagine my next wheel...

Exactly. They could hopefully still fix some of those annoying things plus the accessory market is becoming good.

Things I would do or buy for MSP:

1. File down the pedals to more comfortable angle
2. Install Nikola pedals or custom made pedal extensions
3. Install a shade for that marvellous light to not blind people
4. Install a mudguard
5. Purchase and install that padding seen on the video, looks 👍 
6. Cover the speakers (I never use)
7. Buy a seat or make my own
8. Buy a fast charger

Maybe 300€ extra budget, not that bad considering these are already reasonably priced. Thanks to the people making accessories, these mods are easy and fast and makes this wheel much better. But that trolley would still suck. 

It’s either this or the new Inmotion for me this year. 

Edited March 8, 2020 by UniVehje