In a pickle, KS16s vs v10

[Sipy]

Hi everyone.

I was hoping not to be that guy and post one of these but I'm sure I've read most anything I could find on forums and still can't decide.  

Ewheels has a deal going on v10s this weekend so it essentially comes out cheaper to get that than a KS. Otherwise would be a simple choice.   It may finally be time to sell the motorcycle and go EV. I commute about 7ish miles each way to work and can see me using an EUC for quick shopping trips and the like. I live right outside of Boston and drive in so get a little mix of stop and go with nice straights, some off road if you choose. Construction in my area is wild right now so roads are ... Fun... 

For stats I'm 6'4 and hover around 200lbs plus a pack for lunch. 

Ks16s - sturdy but old tech which bugs me a bit. Nimble, lighter, and should be able to get me 20+ miles. I hope? People complain of the high pitch noise which is audible in reviews. Lower pedals, battery bump.  1200w, 840wh battery, 22mph. $1350

V10 - newer and sleeker but taller and heavier. Little bit more speed, little more range. Guessing 25+ miles, though not quite sure I understand how with the 640wh battery vs KSs 840. Also v10 apparently uses inferior (?) chinese batteries compared to the ks and v10f. On the flip side everyone says it's super comfortable and stable, just not zippy. Wider tire, quieter.   on paper it makes sense to get the cheaper and newer wheel, but can't quite decide. $1300

Any tips? Appreciate the help in advance. 😃

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, Sipy said:

Hi everyone.

I was hoping not to be that guy and post one of these but I'm sure I've read most anything I could find on forums and still can't decide.  

Ewheels has a deal going on v10s this weekend so it essentially comes out cheaper to get that than a KS. Otherwise would be a simple choice.   It may finally be time to sell the motorcycle and go EV. I commute about 7ish miles each way to work and can see me using an EUC for quick shopping trips and the like. I live right outside of Boston and drive in so get a little mix of stop and go with nice straights, some off road if you choose. Construction in my area is wild right now so roads are ... Fun... 

For stats I'm 6'4 and hover around 200lbs plus a pack for lunch. 

Ks16s - sturdy but old tech which bugs me a bit. Nimble, lighter, and should be able to get me 20+ miles. I hope? People complain of the high pitch noise which is audible in reviews. Lower pedals, battery bump.  1200w, 840wh battery, 22mph. $1350

V10 - newer and sleeker but taller and heavier. Little bit more speed, little more range. Guessing 25+ miles, though not quite sure I understand how with the 640wh battery vs KSs 840. Also v10 apparently uses inferior (?) chinese batteries compared to the ks and v10f. On the flip side everyone says it's super comfortable and stable, just not zippy. Wider tire, quieter.   on paper it makes sense to get the cheaper and newer wheel, but can't quite decide. $1300

Any tips? Appreciate the help in advance. 😃

 

my first tip is dont even look at a V10.. total waste of money, the V10F is a fair comparison, the non F version battery is horrible and will throttle your speed waaaaaaaaaay before the KS16S making the KS the faster in actuality.. V10 is extremely tall and not near as easy to carry around if you ask me, i think the KS16S is the most comfortable EUC in existence, but thats of course completely personal.. the pedals are lower than newer vehicles yes but i never scrape them, its extremely nimble.. not saying i dont prefer higher pedals just saying theyre perfectly fine.. you say you think the V10 will have more range?? 20 miles is nothing, i get EASY 70 km on a charge on my 16S thats riding at the beeper i dont ride soft but i am a hell of a lot lighter than you lol, 120 lbs.. still, kingsongs are known for their excellent battery mileage, even if the batteries were the exact same size you would still get better range out of a KS, especially since its a 2.125" tire vs the inmotions 2.5"... if youre comparing the KS16S to the V10F i would say its a toss up, probably a lot of people would choose the inmotion but i personally would still choose the KS16S over the V10F, it is by far my favourite wheel ive ever ridden, it may be "old" tech but its absolutely rock solid..

heres a basic breakdown:

KS16S:

Short and stout(ish), but very grounded

best trolley handle there is, and now they have the lift sensor which is physical and works every time

lower pedals but huge and with the best grip around

battery bumps (for me, i love them.. i have skinny legs and they align with them perfectly making it extremely stable)

better quality, and higher capacity battery

top speed is 35 kph, throttles starting at 30% battery

automatic head and tail lights, large optional battery indicator

very responsive and nippy for a 16"

very loud, constant motor whine.. i dont mind it, some hate it.. with the wind noise its hard to hear anyways but it might annoy people around you

V10:

very tall, but very slim

extremely high pedals, but very slippery when wet

trolley handle works perfectly good.. i like it, some people hate it.. personal taste

no battery bumps, and very thin.. will likely never touch your legs unless theyre huge.. for me this means less stability but also equates to being able to more easily do extreme manuevers

worse battery, less capacity

top speed is 40 but will very quickly start throttling you.. something ridiculous like 70% and keeps going down as the battery goes down

automatic tail light, manual head light.. tiny battery indicator which is a very rough estimate

6 lbs heavier..... for some reason

less responsive due to firmware and a larger tire, but more able to easily absorb road imperfections due to it

totally silent

 

both have excellent build quality, but the KS will not appear as dirty and scratched the matte rubber finish is extremely durable and scratch resistant vs the very glossy inmotion, inmotion has better side lighting effects if youre into that, both are fairly water resistant just keep in mind the KS has the charge port and power button on top so for heavy rain a cover is recommended.. not that you should really ride any EUC in heavy rain without a cover... any other questions just ask, my .02 cents is dont look at the V10 at all, only consider the V10F unless you exclusively plan to use it for short trips at a time.. the range is absolutely nowhere near the manufacturer stated, and the throttling starts ridiculously early

Edited July 28, 2019 by Rywokast

[Sipy]

9 minutes ago, Rywokast said:

 

Dang, thanks for all that. Kinda had the feeling that's where this was going. 

Alternatively, I just noticed the Tesla v2 is right around these as well. Slightly above what I wanted to pay but it seems that for $100 more I could pick up a lot of improvements, sans the rear light. 

[Rywokast]

btw, have you considered the tesla? its 100 more i know but its top speed is way higher than either of the other two and is has a 1020 wh battery, it also has a trolley handle but the pedals are not as big... you could swap them for nikola pedals... its less comfortable than the 16s due to it hitting higher up on your shin causing a pressure point, but since youre quite tall it wouldnt be nearly as bad... it has a 2000W motor as well and its totally silent, same size tire as KS and equally as nimble, veeeeery peppy.. only downsides are like i said not quite as comfortable, lacks necessary padding but you can always add your own, its about as thick as the KS16S but taller, and the shell is more fragile than either of the other two but that only matters if you drop it a lot... also, if you dont mind waiting you can get one super cheap on aliexpress, cheaper than either of the other two.... just thought id throw it out there its an amazing wheel for the price.. new ones also have a speaker and lift cut off switch, you may be able to get an older one even cheaper

[Darrell Wesh]

Get the V10F. If you can’t afford an F model get the 16s with XL pedals. 

The tire is the biggest factor, that XL 16” INMOTION tire is so much more comfortable and stable then the 16s and can actually do off-roading especially thanks to the much higher pedals than the 16s. 

[Darrell Wesh]

I don’t see the top speed throttling on the V10 as a big deal because it’s a sidewalk/bicycle lane cruiser in the urban environment. 

If you want to ride in the streets with cars (where you’ll want higher speeds) then buy a Gotway or 18” Kingsong. 

[Rywokast]

12 minutes ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I don’t see the top speed throttling on the V10 as a big deal because it’s a sidewalk/bicycle lane cruiser in the urban environment. 

If you want to ride in the streets with cars (where you’ll want higher speeds) then buy a Gotway or 18” Kingsong. 

idk, i see it as a huge demerit.. if i bought something that goes 40 i want it to go 40 for my entire commute not just the first 20 mins.. yes its not an especially fast wheel, but you can go any speed you want in a bike lane and for the price and motor size you sure as hell should at least be able to go 40 constantly lol... i do agree on the gotway or 18" KS though for his size and weight thats why i suggested the tesla as its in the same price range.. anything else might be a lot more than hes willing to spend though especially since its his first one.. money aside i would recommend KS18XL/16X, MSX/Nikola for him but they are all a huge chunk of change more.. only reason i see it as a big deal is for instance one of my regular commutes is 40 km on a designated/separate bike path.. on my KS16S i can easily do the commute going 35 the whole time, on a regular V10 i would go 10 km at 40, then 10 km at 35, then 10 km at 30, then the last 10 km at 25.. thats just a rough estimate but i saw a chart the other day about the speed throttling by manufacturer and the V10s started way before any other and kept going down it was very quickly outpaced by kingsongs and small gotway wheels.. personally that would piss me right off if i spent 1300 on an EUC thats big and heavy and after a short time of riding its speed was the same as my 550 dollar little V5F that i can throw across a room lol

Edited July 28, 2019 by Rywokast

[Rywokast]

aah here it is... look at the throttling on the V10 its ridiculous, it starts before the KS14D which is one of only two entry level wheels sold by ewheels lmao.. and at one point the 14D even surpasses its speed

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Rywokast

[lirva]

I don't think the chart is correct, is it kingsong marketing picture?

One group ride my battery was down 5% and I could still keep up with others riding 30kph. I have the non F version with smaller battery.

I get little under 30kms  (18miles) on it, i'm 100kg  (220lbs)

Edited July 28, 2019 by lirva

[UniVehje]

Yeah, that picture is wrong. Ks16S also starts throttling at 50% if I remember correctly. V10F should be faster or as fast as 16S throughout the battery cycle. V10F can also be raised to 45 km/h. 

I agree a V10 doesn’t make sense. V10F is a better deal. If you go with 16S then you should pay much less for it. If you are on a budget then these are your best options. I would take the V10F for comfort but that is a personal taste. For the same money V10F is better. 

[Rywokast]

15 minutes ago, lirva said:

I don't think the chart is correct, is it kingsong marketing picture?

One group ride my battery was down 5% and I could still keep up with others riding 30kph. I have the non F version with smaller battery.

I get little under 30kms  (18miles) on it, i'm 100kg  (220lbs)

uh no its an ewheels chart lol... well thats weird because thats what it is unless recent firmware has changed it? what app was telling you that, because as far as im aware no euc in existence will let you do 30 on a 5% charge lol not even a monster

[Rywokast]

25 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Yeah, that picture is wrong. Ks16S also starts throttling at 50% if I remember correctly. V10F should be faster or as fast as 16S throughout the battery cycle. V10F can also be raised to 45 km/h. 

I agree a V10 doesn’t make sense. V10F is a better deal. If you go with 16S then you should pay much less for it. If you are on a budget then these are your best options. I would take the V10F for comfort but that is a personal taste. For the same money V10F is better. 

i have nearly 10k km across 3 KS16S' throttling does not start at 50 its indeed 30 as the chart states, this chart however is battery under load.. so while you may in actuality have 50% battery, you could push it really hard and be throttled.. same goes for all of these wheels thats the throttling under load.. which is different from stand still depending on your weight and how hard you push the wheel, plus wind resistance and incline.. you can monitor the battery level reading moving quite a lot while riding using an app. yes the V10F is better than the 16S but you have to take into accound the exorbitant price, and the larger size/weight.. if you take those into account imo its a toss up with me personally giving the edge to the 16S just because i like the way it feels.. this is completely subjective there is no doubt that the V10F is a better wheel

Edited July 28, 2019 by Rywokast

[lirva]

Inmotion own app, 5% on the app is not realworld 5% offcourse. 

[Rywokast]

Just now, lirva said:

Inmotion own app, 5% on the app is not realworld 5% offcourse. 

hmmm.. thats very strange.. it should not have let you go that speed lol thats extremely unsafe.. it should have been beeping constantly and tilting you back so bad that its un-ride able

[Rywokast]

if firmware has changed the V10F to 45 km/h and lessened the speed throttling then i would definitely recommend it over the 16S.. but there is no way that i would ever recommend a regular V10 over a 16S

[Darrell Wesh]

2 hours ago, Rywokast said:

and after a short time of riding its speed was the same as my 550 dollar little V5F that i can throw across a room lol

At 40% battery on a V10F you’d have to do about 20miles. Certainly not a short ride. Like I said prior, if you’re hitting full speed all the time why are you not on a Gotway? Unless I’m on the road, I routinely cruise at 14-18mph on sidewalks and pedestrian paths on my MSX, 18s or Z10. On the road it’s full speed (30+mph)

[atdlzpae]

At 270lbs I can do 35km on my KS16S 840Wh.

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

At 40% battery on a V10F you’d have to do about 20miles. Certainly not a short ride. Like I said prior, if you’re hitting full speed all the time why are you not on a Gotway? Unless I’m on the road, I routinely cruise at 14-18mph on sidewalks and pedestrian paths on my MSX, 18s or Z10. On the road it’s full speed (30+mph)

I am on a gotway, and a kingsong, inmotion, ninebot.. I ride a lot of wheels usually at max speed.. the wheel I choose to ride is purely situational. I was not referring to the V10F as he never mentioned it, was referring to the regular V10 with its measly 680 wh which wouldn't be remotely close to 20 miles at 40%.. if we're talking V10F then yea it's better

[Rywokast]

6 hours ago, Sipy said:

Dang, thanks for all that. Kinda had the feeling that's where this was going. 

Alternatively, I just noticed the Tesla v2 is right around these as well. Slightly above what I wanted to pay but it seems that for $100 more I could pick up a lot of improvements, sans the rear light. 

I never even noticed that you replied lmao.. yea it's 100 more but well worth it imo, if you wanna be chintsy like me like I said you can get it cheaper than either of these off aliexpress.. but you'll be waiting a while longer than locally ofc.. it has the best range, speed, and torque of the three though.. the rear light is lame that it's not built in but you can just grab a rechargeable led one for ten bucks and Velcro it on the back if you go riding at night.. I mentioned the tesla is not as comfortable but you haven't ridden euc before so literally ever single one will be painful and uncomfortable until youre conditioned lol

[Rywokast]

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

At 270lbs I can do 35km on my KS16S 840Wh.

 seems like you need to upgrade to a 1600 :p or is that enough for you? I don't ever take trips that would take my battery below 20% for various reasons but even down to 20% I can get 70 km if it's warm.. my 2100 wh nikola should be here this week the mileage will be insane

Edited July 28, 2019 by Rywokast

[Sipy]

2 hours ago, Rywokast said:

I never even noticed that you replied lmao.. yea it's 100 more but well worth it imo, if you wanna be chintsy like me like I said you can get it cheaper than either of these off aliexpress.. but you'll be waiting a while longer than locally ofc.. it has the best range, speed, and torque of the three though.. the rear light is lame that it's not built in but you can just grab a rechargeable led one for ten bucks and Velcro it on the back if you go riding at night.. I mentioned the tesla is not as comfortable but you haven't ridden euc before so literally ever single one will be painful and uncomfortable until youre conditioned lol

Yep, v10f def isn't in the price range hence why I never mentioned it. All roads are pointing towards the gotway. I was trying to stay away from that company but from what I've read things have improved over the years. 

Nervous buying from Ali with the lack of customer support but at the same time 1200 sure seems like a great deal. Will have to think about that one. 

[atdlzpae]

3 hours ago, Rywokast said:

 seems like you need to upgrade to a 1600 :p or is that enough for you?

I sometimes take my 2kWh li-ion battery in my backpack. With it I have a range of 115km.

7s 2kWh -> step-up to 66V 3A -> a wire soldered directly to the batteries.
The external XT60 is never connected fully - it disconnects during crashes, so no problem here.

Edited July 28, 2019 by atdlzpae

[Rywokast]

5 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

I sometimes take my 2kWh li-ion battery in my backpack. With it I have a range of 115km.

7s 2kWh -> step-up to 66V 3A -> a wire soldered directly to the batteries.
The external XT60 is never connected fully - it disconnects during crashes, so no problem here.

uhh, that's awesome

[Rywokast]

5 hours ago, Sipy said:

Yep, v10f def isn't in the price range hence why I never mentioned it. All roads are pointing towards the gotway. I was trying to stay away from that company but from what I've read things have improved over the years. 

Nervous buying from Ali with the lack of customer support but at the same time 1200 sure seems like a great deal. Will have to think about that one. 

I wouldn't worry too much, in the extremely rare chance that there's an issue, and if they refuse customer service, then the amount saved will stroll keep you in the green even if you had to buy a new board.. ewheels is the best place to buy hands down but if you're not wanting to spend that amount of money then ali is a good choice, I've never regretted a purchase from there

[TDK]

19 hours ago, Sipy said:

Ewheels has a deal going on v10s this weekend so it essentially comes out cheaper to get that than a KS. Otherwise would be a simple choice.   It may finally be time to sell the motorcycle and go EV. I commute about 7ish miles each way to work and can see me using an EUC for quick shopping trips and the like. I live right outside of Boston and drive in so get a little mix of stop and go with nice straights, some off road if you choose. Construction in my area is wild right now so roads are ... Fun... 

For stats I'm 6'4 and hover around 200lbs plus a pack for lunch. 

Ks16s - sturdy but old tech which bugs me a bit. Nimble, lighter, and should be able to get me 20+ miles. I hope? People complain of the high pitch noise which is audible in reviews. Lower pedals, battery bump.  1200w, 840wh battery, 22mph. $1350

V10 - newer and sleeker but taller and heavier. Little bit more speed, little more range. Guessing 25+ miles, though not quite sure I understand how with the 640wh battery vs KSs 840. Also v10 apparently uses inferior (?) chinese batteries compared to the ks and v10f. On the flip side everyone says it's super comfortable and stable, just not zippy. Wider tire, quieter.   on paper it makes sense to get the cheaper and newer wheel, but can't quite decide. $1300

Any tips? Appreciate the help in advance. 😃

 

V10 was sold by Gearbest for $ 800-900. The price of $ 1,300 is a bit much.
The V10 battery consists of 80 Samsung 22P cells, not Chinese.
The wheel with an almost completely discharged battery can go at a speed of 32 km/h, so the above graph is not true. It is safe. The software assumes that the battery is completely discharged at 68 V (3.4 V on a single cell) when there is still some energy left.
The range of the wheel is 35-45 km (weight 70 kg). If it's enough for someone, it's a very good wheel.