InMotion E2 & E3 : says goodbye to your Mini "S", Lite or Pro...

[jojo33]

 

(As I have no space allowed for photos, I made a copy-pasted from the topic I created on the French forum, maybe pictures  will not appear sorry, please look french forum https://forum.urban360.com/index.php?/topic/5170-inmotion-e2-e3-ninebot-vas-souffrir-de-cette-concurrence/)

We thought Gotway would have kept his promise...

Hey no! This is INMOTION who created the surprise,  InMotion China finally brings us the direct competitors to Mini Lite, Mini "S" and Mini Pro .

In equivalence of the well-known model, the Mini "S" of Segway Ninebot Xiaomi (blablabla), we have the InMotion E2

The E2 is sold in China for 1699 RMB, 247$/ 217 euros against 1999RMB or 290$/257 euros for the Mini S in chinese market

In the Mini PRO equivalence, we have the InMotion E3, which is sold in China at the price of 2999 RMB is 436$/383 euros against 3699 RMB is 515$/457 euros for the chinese market.

For batteries, we have the same in 18650, tire are 10,5", speed, mileage, are the same than Segway Ninebot modele

No innovation from InMotion, except pink color () These models are almost identical to the Minis

For Mini specialists, especially those who have already had the courage to disassemble, I invite you to look closely at the internal photos of the FCC, I see you already laugh ....

I asked INMOTION if I could try this new model, I did not have any answer...I would have liked to know its responsiveness in terms of firmware and its handling.

 

USER MANUAL you can download InMotion E2 E3 user manual 

FCC website https://fccid.io/2ADUSE2/Users-Manual/User-Manual-4260251

my blog https://sites.google.com/view/mini-j-world/home/news/inmotion-e2-e3

 

Commercials pictures , options with kickstand and handlebar are available

      

 

    

 

  

 

    

 

 

E2 & E3 Specs, I made a nice comparison chart of the specs of all segway ninebot existing models with Inmotion E2 & E3

 

 

From Official FCC internal pictures

I compared the internal photos with the mini (motherboard etc)
Has Ninebot sold its patents ?

 

 

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

Edited June 2, 2021 by jojo33

[jojo33]

I forget: Happy July 4th ✨✨😘

Edited July 4, 2019 by jojo33

[FreeRide]

Hmmm, battery says 300Wh, not 310Wh different calculation, or different cells?

The good news is the batteries should be interchangeable then, maybe InMotion will provide standalone batteries at a good price.

Strange that InMotion thought they could do a better job with it in their market.  At least they should be able to provide some after sales support.  I hope it does really great for them, then they might request or fund a true update to the MiniPro (E3).

Edited July 6, 2019 by FreeRide
typo: week -> great

[jojo33]

7 hours ago, FreeRide said:

different cells?

18650, same cells for all models, they mention approximate values in my opinion

Prices are more realistics than segway ninebot

I don't feel that the battery is removable more easily than on others

[FreeRide]

16 hours ago, jojo33 said:

>I don't feel that the battery is removable more easily than on others

I just meant you can buy an InMotion battery, and put it in your Segway, because it might be easier to find or less expensive.

[trevmar]

The most interesting thing to me about this InMotion platform are these two excerpts from the user manual:

"4.2 Anti-Spinning Function
Due to the uniqueness algorithm of the self-balancing vehicle, the motor will accelerate and fly until it is turned off if the vehicle is off the ground. The vehicle may go off your hand when you put it back to the ground, due to the motor is accelerating. In some occasions, such as elevators, stairs, buses, or crowed place, there is a risk of encountering others. The E SERIES SCV is designed with anti-spinning function according to the characteristics. When the user holds the handle and press the anti-spinning button and lift the vehicle completely, the vehicle will detect the lifting and give off the sound and turn off the motor control. If you put the car on the ground again, the vehicle will also detect the state of the drop and give a sound and turn on the motor control. At this point, the car will return to normal and can continue to use"

What they are hinting here is that the Segway/Ninebot automatic cutoff when the device is lifted up is not the technique they use - they require you to manually tell the machine to (temporarily) cut itself off. I immediately thought "SAFETY ALGORITHM". I wonder if the miniPRO's tendency to stop powering the platform under some riding conditions is due to some fundamental algorithmic problem in the 'auto-off' feature of the MiniPRO. I will need to think that one through.. but it does seem reasonable to me. Alternately, perhaps Ninebot has a patent on this feature (but I doubt that).

"4.3 Overload Protection
When the E SERIES SCV is used for a long period of high load, such as continuous climbing, frequent acceleration and deceleration, etc., the vehicle components may have an overload condition such as excessive temperature or excessive power. In order to protect the safety of users and meet the requirements of relevant regulations. The vehicle will give an alarm prompt (sound prompt and LED panel warning code prompt), and continue to lift the pedal to indicate that the user should getting off. When the user gets off the vehicle, the vehicle will turn off the motor control, and the user should turn off the vehicle power and stop using it" 

I wonder if the MiniPRO works the same way? It sounds clean and logical, but honestly, I have never seen that behavior. MiniPRO just seems to keep throttling back my speed if I keep riding it harder. I think I would like the InMotion approach better, although a temperature monitoring LED display would have been a nice improvement 

Overall, I am waiting for slightly more powerful motors to be fitted to one of these clones, perhaps with slightly larger wheels. As the Engineer's blog explains, a 200lb guy (like me) weighs more than the magic "85Kg" limit on the MiniPRO, and I am sure that has caused me the twisted ankle and dislocated shoulder. I need to get a more powerful machine. Maybe I need to save my pennies for a real Segway X2...

Edited July 6, 2019 by trevmar

[jojo33]

On 7/6/2019 at 4:26 AM, trevmar said:

from the user manual:

Oh ! i forgot the user manual

USER MANUAL you can download InMotion E2 E3 user manual 

FCC website https://fccid.io/2ADUSE2/Users-Manual/User-Manual-4260251

Edited April 26, 2022 by jojo33

[FreeRide]

Just wondering how do you know it is the same cells in the battery?

[FreeRide]

The battery has those wings in the corners, it may not mount in a regular Minipro, or you may need to modify it a bit to fit.

[trevmar]

The BMS is probably different from Ninebot's, so you would be speed limited to 10Kph

[Philip]

I have the following observations about these new E2 and E3 personal transporters:

(1) The main board of the E2/E3 looks identical to the main board of the miniPRO! I compared photos of each, and it appears the layout and components are all exactly the same, so either INMOTION has simply copied Segway-Ninebot's design, or they have officially licensed it. What do others think?

(2) Where is the "Anti-spinning button" located on the device? I've looked in the manual, and I cannot see this button anywhere. Presumably it is down on the platform itself, rather than on the knee-steer (since there are no wires running up inside the knee-steer)?

(3) The spec sheet says maximum slope of 16 degrees (E2) and 25 degrees (E3)....but I find these claims very difficult to believe!

I doubt very much that the E3 can climb up, or safely descend, anywhere close to a 25 degree slope while carrying a 75kg rider, and I suspect the E2 would struggle with 16 degrees. I base my opinion on my own experiments conducted with miniPROs carrying 60kg and 80kg riders up Auckland's steepest street: Liverpool Street. This street is officially 10.2 degrees (or 18 percent), but I measured 13 degrees on the very steepest 5m portion. The miniPRO could carry each rider up and down the full length of this ~10 degrees street slowly and safely, except when reaching the 5m of 13 degree slope. At the 13 degree portion it could carry the 60kg rider OK, but it stalled with the 80kg rider. My results were generally consistent with the official miniPRO spec which, if I recall correctly, claims a maximum grade of 15 degrees. Has anyone else made similar measurements?

 

 

[trevmar]

4 hours ago, Philip said:

Has anyone else made similar measurements?

Yes, on the 12-14 degrees slopes near us the N3M320 MiniPRO with a 95Kg rider can only move at about 10kph. But if you use a smaller 240Wh battery the pace is merely a crawl, as you say. Also, you need to be running firmware 1.1.1 to 1.1.9, the later firmwares slow you right down to  a crawl.

Note that the Chinese developers' blog has data similar to this - use Google Translate on this URL: http://bbs.ninebot.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=4100&extra=page%3D1%26filter%3Dtypeid%26typeid%3D43 1/23

I suspect the InMotion may be designed to do a little better here, as the newer battery cells will give a larger current than those available when the MiniPRO was designed, and Segway/Ninebot totally sacrificed performance from that point forward in a bid to make sure they could advertise that "your battery will not burst into flames." InMotion may have overcome that paranoia.

There are some minor differences in the control board design. Look at the number of white multipin connectors for the motors and LEDs, for example. But they do seem to have made close to a direct copy, even to the location of the JTAG pins. That is not uncommon in China...

[Shad0z]

just buy an euc already. segways are a flawed design, too bad terrain handling + unsafe at high speed + 2 wheels next to each other makes terrain handling a nightmare

[FreeRide]

12 hours ago, Philip said:

I have the following observations about these new E2 and E3 personal transporters:

...

my observations

1. I would say this obviously appears to be a licensed design.  
2. They took the time to improve the ergonomics of the power switch, and changed the battery housing for some reason; they seem committed to having such a device in their line up.
3. The foot pads look different, I wonder if they are easier to replace without disassembling the base. The photo implies they are easily removable separate pieces, and no sub-assembly is shown to hold them in place.  Another point that makes it look like they have considered the design and assembly of the device and optimized where they could.
4. Unfortunately even the E3 does not have the quick-release for the control bar. This makes quickly putting it in a duffle bag for travel in trains, busses, boats, cars, etc. impossible.  The mount however looks the same as the Minipro, so one might be able to use the segway QR & Arm if desired.
5. I don't really understand why they have the E2, it seems to make more sense to just standardize on the E3 to reduce inventory handling costs and simplify logistics.
6. Disappointed they did not appear to improve the speed of the device to at least 20km/h or 25km/h.  I'll be interested in seeing a teardown of the battery to see what is really inside.  
7. Very interesting that their model is based on the original mini-series and not the Plus series.
8. If they would have addressed the battery and/or speed issues I would have bought it on release day, but I guess since I just got a plus I don't really plan to use much right away, I will wait to see where they go with this one.

[jojo33]

On 7/7/2019 at 8:48 AM, Philip said:

main board of the E2/E3 looks identical to the main board of the miniPRO! I compared photos of each, and it appears the layout and components are all exactly the same

exactly, I'm also thinking about the license but inmotion had also released a Segway three years ago, 

E2 E3 are more copy of Mini Lite that have not been successful

 

13 hours ago, FreeRide said:

why they have the E2, it seems to make more sense to just standardize on the E3 to reduce inventory handling costs and simplify logistics

For chinese market, there are always different models in power and price in the same range, it is to reach the maximum of customers

E2 is available on sale with Gearbest for $379.99

(Prices in China are E2 247$/ 217 euros -  E3 436$/383 euros)

Edited July 8, 2019 by jojo33

[trevmar]

I thought I saw a video of the E3 with a quick-disconnect for the handle. Can't recall where I saw it, but keep a close eye on the E3 disconnect as the photos start coming in. Personally, I am more interested in InMotion's control algorithms, as I now realize that the MiniPRO logic to sense it being picked up and carried may also be the logic which is dumping us off when one wheel slips 'too much' on a rock or smooth surface.

[jojo33]

12 hours ago, trevmar said:

I am more interested in InMotion's control algorithms

I agree with you
I also think that InMotion has a different approach to riding

the tips in the user manual demonstrate special attention that Ninebot does not have

12 hours ago, trevmar said:

E3 with a quick-disconnect for the handle

not sure...(And it starts the confusion between the E2 and E3 models, We still have a company that is not able to communicate on its models
The E3 should have the extendable bar so removable)

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by jojo33

[jojo33]

Maybe...with extend bar

And it starts the confusion between the E2 and E3 models
We still have a company that is not able to communicate on its models
The E3 should have the extendable bar so removable

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by jojo33

[68bugboy]

Did anyone notice the steering bar is in the front?

Must not be a direct clone.

[trevmar]

I found that video which showed the clip-on version of the steering bar:

 

[FreeRide]

On 7/9/2019 at 10:47 AM, trevmar said:

I found that video which showed the clip-on version of the steering bar:

....

That's good, hopefully it was just some early videos using prototypes or even the wrong model because it was all they had on hand.  The removable and telescopic control bra are useful features.  

Being able to put something on the platform as shown in the video is a nice enhancement to the design.

Even though In Motion might be well known for their large pedals on the EUC, I guess they didn't go so far as to improve the platform; although maybe their new footpads are more comfortable. we'll have to wait and see.

[FreeRide]

I heard In Motion USA will not be carrying the E2 or E3.  Looks like it will have to be sourced abroad if you're in the US.

[trevmar]

So as the OP, JoJo, reminded us, Gotway has let us down.

There has been no high-torque Gotway 'Segway clone' between the miniPRO and the fullsize 19" X2/I2 Chinese clones (which, incidentally, IMO are better than the 'real' Segways, even if they still use brushed motors and a gearbox!)

Now that my shoulder has almost un-dislocated, I am looking forward to getting some miles up on the v1.1.1 firmware so I can make a complete matrix of exactly what options a miniPRO owner has available. At this point, I see that the miniPRO hardware/firmware is not achieving the torque and safety margins that it should be. Today's batteries are much better at supplying peak output power than the 2015 batteries which the firmware was designed for, yet I don't see new firmware capable of taking advantage of that extra power to provide a better safety-factor for heavy riders. I don't even see the 310Wh batteries still being available to activate the firmware into its most powerful mode... If only the firmware had been open-sourced...

Edited July 12, 2019 by trevmar

[Philip]

20 hours ago, FreeRide said:

I heard In Motion USA will not be carrying the E2 or E3.  Looks like it will have to be sourced abroad if you're in the US.

I'm going to guess the reason for Inmotion not selling into USA has to do with patent infringement. In particular this one: https://patents.google.com/patent/US8830048

In 2016 Inmotion was one of 13 companies named in the following USITC action: https://www.engadget.com/2016/03/17/us-hoverboard-import-ban/

If anyone has any update on the practical effect and consequences of the above ruling, and how it impacts on manufacturers selling devices into US, into EU, etc, I would be very interested to hear.

[jojo33]

US FCC agreement was done for this Inmotion E2 E3, as for the Mini N3M240, the business strategy will be the same :
The Mini N3M240, released in 2015 in China had FCC approval, it could be sold in the US without problem, (china price 250 euros, imported price by aliexpress resellers 500/600 euros)
Called "S", It only appeared this year in the official Segway Europe and US distribution

I reveal it to you, Inmotion (and Ninebot too) controls the prices and controls totally his account on Gearbest and Aliexpress
Their interest in selling with GLOBALGROW / Gearbest is that they will have no trouble handling returns, taxes, customs fees, freight charges, customer relation etc...
The warranty is only one year
The channel is not official, although Inmotion has already said that Gearbest was an official dealer (see V5F topics potential buyers were bothered to know if they could use the app without being blocked regionally only in China, INMOTION then decided to say that there was no blocking because gearbest was official dealer, but inmotion had to provoke the anger of its European and American partners, because the price of the V5F was half, sold on gearbest)

They hope to sell a lot for export to Europe and the United States
Finally, once the product has sold well, the reputation has spread on the web and forums, they will put it on sale in the European and American markets