How many EUC riders are there in the world?

[novazeus]

54 minutes ago, Hellkitten said:

I’ll assume by critical mass you’re referring to eucs being ubiquitous in the global market. If you’re talking about critical mass the taking over a road with a large group of people, last season we had over 150 riders cruising around downtown Toronto. 
While I do semi agree with your statement about disposable income and eucs. We have a bunch of students, delivery workers, young people and immigrants all a part of the community here. A lot of them don’t fall into that category. Probably half the riders in Toronto have an income that you could call “enthusiasts” and buy the next best wheel. The amount of riders here is absolutely growing. A lot of them are coming from a different pev and are either looking for more range or hands free riding. That being said, I think the steep learning curve and the perceived danger will keep a lot of people out of this hobby. It’s likely only going to saturate the market so far. 

i don't get out much, but i do have a few friends. none of them have ever expressed any interest in riding a wheel. 

and knowing all the dangers, i can't really recommend riding a wheel either. i'd feel terrible if i encouraged somebody to ride and they hurt themselves.

i started in 2017, and the wheels are way better now, just curious how many "current" riders there are. by "current", i mean, "currently" own and "currently" ride a wheel.

[skunkmonkey]

22 minutes ago, novazeus said:

and knowing all the dangers, i can't really recommend riding a wheel either

Yeah EUC's are definitely not for everyone. I recommend them for people that seek a challenge, want to be a bit different from the rest of the crowd, and don't mind the extra risk. For most of my friends I recommend electric scooters as they are great for the no-hassle commute, but for fun I'd take an EUC any day. If I'm going long distances EUC's are hands down better than scooters as well.

[techyiam]

On 10/25/2023 at 1:55 PM, Hellkitten said:

The amount of riders here is absolutely growing.

Good to hear.

Around Vancouver along the routes that I ride, I don't see many euc riders. Based on what I saw this past season, I am not really seeing more riders compared to previous seasons, although I do hear there were supposedly some growth.

And now the weather is colder, and rains a lot, I don't see them. Surprisingly, I do see the odd electric scooter, but very few bicycles/ebikes.

The blatantly obvious growth this year in PEV's that I have observed was in electric scooters. I think there were also growth in e-bikes according to the provincial government stats, but it is not significant when I go riding. This is the first year that I saw a big uptick in electric scooters. Perhaps some of it will spill over to euc's in the near future.

Edited October 26, 2023 by techyiam

[Robse]

5 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The blatantly obvious growth this year in PEV's that I have observed is in electric scooters. I think there were also growth in e-bikes according to the provincial government stats, but it is not significant when I go riding. This is the first year that I saw a big uptick in electric scooters. Perhaps some of it will spill over to euc's in the near future.

Ind Denmark there is a rapid growth in the e-bike market.  Unfortunately the current statistics are only valid up to and including 2020, but I can guarantee that the amount of e-bikes must have doubled in the last 2 years. It has gone from typically seeing 20 bikes, of which 2 were electric bikes, to seeing 20 bikes, and now there are only 5 that are NOT electric bikes.

Picture: Import and export of e-bikes in Denmark.

[techyiam]

46 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

Yeah EUC's are definitely not for everyone

I spoke to a couple of random people, both times in a supermarket parking lot. One was a security guard there. Apparently, he tried to learn to ride euc's but he didn't succeed. I was surprised by that because I assumed that anyone should be able to learn to ride them eventually. In any case, he now rides electric scooters.

Another person was riding an electric scooter. He said he originally wanted to buy an euc. But when he was at Eeevees, he couldn't learn to ride it while he was there. So he decided to buy an electric scooter instead. He bought a descent electric scooter, though. That was peculiar because his expectation was very different from mine. In my case, I never expected to be able to ride an euc right away. I just bought one and keep at it, and with time, I improved and improved.

 

[Robse]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

That was peculiar because his expectation was very different from mine. In my case, I never expected to be able to ride an euc right away. I just bought one and keep at it, and with time, I improved and improved.

 

You can sum it up to the fact that EUC riders have one thing in common: Stubbornness - otherwise you would never be able to learn it... (so there should be a lot of female riders)

[skunkmonkey]

6 minutes ago, techyiam said:

He said he originally wanted to buy an euc. But when he was at Eeevees, he couldn't learn to ride it while he was there. So he decided to buy an electric scooter instead

Yeah I was lucky in that I did my research before buying a EUC, and so I knew to expect a steep learning curve. That was actually part of the appeal for me honestly. I think it would turn a lot of people off though, especially if they weren't expecting it. I try to be pretty honest about the learning curve when I talk to my friends about it, so that they can make an informed decision. I offer my wheel as tribute of course. 

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, Robse said:

It has gone from typically seeing 20 bikes, of which 2 were electric bikes, to seeing 20 bikes, and now there are only 5 that are NOT electric bikes.

In Vancouver, although there were growth in e-bikes, I have to say, by far, the most prevalent personal transportation device is the manual bicycle, hands down. I think around here, people want fitness. During rush hour, most of them are on bicycles. Riding around parks and bike paths, by far the most common device is also the bicycle. Even with the rapid growth of electric scooters, there is still a long ways to go.

Having said that, the numbers of bicycles out riding is dwarfed by the number of cars on the road. And in the heavy rain and low temperatures, There are almost no cyclists.

Edited October 25, 2023 by techyiam

[Robse]

5 minutes ago, techyiam said:

In Vancouver, although there were growth in e-bikes, I have to say, by far, the most prevalent personal transportation device is the manual bicycle, hands down. I think around here, people want fitness. During rush hour, most of them are on bicycles. Riding around parks and bike paths, by far the most common device is also the bicycle. Even with the rapid growth of electric scooters, there is still a long ways to go.

Having said that, the numbers of bicycles out riding is dwarfed by the number of cars on the road. And in the heavy rain and low temperatures, There are almost no cyclists.

Yes, unfortunately I just think people are lazy. In Denmark, we have always been known for being a country of cyclists, and we still are, but as an electric bicycle can be bought for almost the same as a regular bicycle, laziness gains ground.  The worst thing is that many of those who ride an electric bike have no sense of how fast they are actually moving. Not because 25 kmph is fast, but it is much much faster than these people would ever ride a regular bike. And people don't understand anything about braking distance, reaction time and stability in sharp curves...

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

I did my research before buying a EUC

For me, I watched the Youtube videos, and read the posts.

But also, based on my past experiences learning to ice skate, inline skate, and bicycling, I also knew, these types of activities will take some time to learn.

In fact, I didn't even know whether I could learn to ride an euc. For me, it was OK if I never could learn to ride it. But, at the same time, I was prepared to spend many months to learn to ride it. It wasn't an urgent kind of thing.

[DjPanJan]

Too many :-( 

[rcgldr]

Seems many or most of the EUC sales are for upgrade | replacement as opposed to first time EUC buyers.

With proper instruction, I've read that most beginners can learn to ride in 1 to 3 hours.  As others have posted, e-bikes have become more popular. Some locations have those free to ride e-scooters.

I started back in August 2021 with a V8F. I watched the how to ride EUC and other videos before ordering my V8F, and continued to watch while waiting for my V8F to arrive. I had prior experience with being able to ride a bicycle slow or track stand (bike not moving forwards) for 30 seconds or so by constantly steering the front wheel for balance, and assumed I could arm flail left to twist|steer the V8F right and vice-versa. This allowed me to do a lap and later laps around a tennis court on my first attempt at 3 to 5 mph. This was after about 15 to 20 minutes of beginner drills like using support to mount, rocking back and forth, and doing short runs near a screened fence. I used support to mount and launch. Riding at such slow speed required constant balance corrections, and most beginners will learn to ride slow after they've learned how to ride. I moved to a long parking lot, and at around 7 to 8 mph, discovered my V8F became stable, and I no longer had to make any balance corrections if riding in a straight line, relaxed my arms and I could essentially just stand still on my V8F, realizing that I didn't just suddenly learn to ride, but that I was just riding fast enough for my V8F to become self-stable. I had seen in the how to ride videos that more speed was recommended, but I wasn't expecting an EUC to become self-stable at sufficient speed. Those videos should mention this. I then learned to steer by tilting the EUC left and right. Small tilts at first to get a sense of how the V8F would respond, then weaving patterns, and then large radius turns. I was doing about 30 minutes a day and waited until day 5 to attempt free mount, which wasn't an issue since I could already basically ride. Learning how to coordinate how much to tilt the EUC and how much to lean versus speed took longer, about 6 hours or so, and continued to improve over time.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by rcgldr

[novazeus]

i bought an inmotion little scooter and i felt unsafe on it on my road.

[Bumblebees]

Not enough.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

125,669 and a 1/2 because you have to factor in the m104 riders.......

[Cyberwolf]

While I know there's a small (?) number of EUC riders in my general area, I have yet to encounter any of them "in-the-wild"; but have experienced an almost ubiquitous interest and enthusiasm from bystanders/observers (with the notable exception being a woman who was obviously asking questions trying to find something to take issue with from an authoritarian perspective, lol!).

For me, I had been interested in EUCs for some time, but only recently decided to pull the trigger based on where the tech/capabilities have developed to so-far...

 

That said, and this may not be the most popular opinion, but I'm fine with there being a bit of exclusivity involved (understanding that there's an optimal balance to support industry & technology advancement), primarily because...

Once a threshold gets passed in terms of volume and the inevitable stupidity that comes with it, that's how EUCs become the next target of "Common Sense" enforcement (e.g. retard-level authoritarianism), and we're presented with a basic choice between accepting more nonsensical restictions and infringements, or just simple non-compliance with a "FOAD" level of vehemence...

Like the whole "Is that road legal?" bullshit question (which when asked, I began my response by rejecting the question "as-presented" in its entirety due to being based upon what I consider to be a faulty/invalid premise...).

One of the benefits of relatively low adoption/saturation across the population is that restrictive legislation isn't front-of-mind for every little petty tyrant with a need for .gov to "DO SOMETHING!", and the mantra of "Don't be a dickhead or blithely accept that attitude from others" can be more effective...

For example:

In my area, there's no hard-and-fast statement which can be made as to whether roads vs. bike paths are best/viable - many rides/destinations require traversing both, at least for some short time:

--Riding at 10mph max on bike trails would take foreeeeeeever to get anywhere, and reduce (eliminate) viability for either entertainment or commuting purposes.  Riding slow/careful near pedestrians, and faster in open-stretches is much preferred.

--Riding in the wrong street at the wrong time is likely to get you smoked by a car/truck moving between 60mph and 130mph (street racing is another problem with laws that they can't manage to enforce, and even everyday drivers seem to treat speed limits and stop signs/lights as merely suggestions).  Riding in the street here at all times (something required of "street legal" vehicles), would be suicide -plain and simple.  On the flip side, many of the local trail systems are not interconnected, and require traversing short stretches of main road as quickly as possible to get between them...

Overly burdensome legal restrictions would create exactly the opposite of ushering in a safer environment/experience, as least with current/known technology (e.g. no forcefields, inertial dampeners, etc.) and other ancillary considerations; non-compliance would likely become standard practice at-large as a result.

On 10/25/2023 at 5:12 PM, techyiam said:

The blatantly obvious growth this year in PEV's that I have observed is in electric scooters. I think there were also growth in e-bikes...

^This is another great example, as where I live, it seems there's been a growth in public hostility towards e-scooters (not so much with ebikes) becase of volume and all the public/rental scooters left abandoned on bike paths, in neighborhoods, etc., and the lower entry-bar (easier learning curve) just means more immature dickheads in the picture, which then translates once again to negative public pressure...

 

22 hours ago, rcgldr said:

With proper instruction, I've read that most beginners can learn to ride in 1 to 3 hours. 

 

^I've had to wonder about how generally accurate this is, given all the youtube vids (many of which seem to express similar expectations), contrasted with my own experience...

Learning on grass (which I understand is more difficult), it still took roughly about a week before I could stay on the wheel longer than a few seconds at a time (and a few weeks for the bruising to stop hurting and heal up!) and I'm not exactly what you would call uncoordinated, lol!  Maybe that's simply because of the wheel I started with, but "training" wheels don't seem to be much of a 'thing', and determination does seem to be a big part of the process.

On a related note, I'm now at just over 3 months and ~1900 miles in (with no prior euc experience), and just yesterday managed to accidentally pull-off what I would consider to be my first "full send" on the Patton!   

The first one (did it a few times) was absolutely terrifying and most definitely NOT intentional - ran a bike park jump/ramp too fast and launched clear over the entire berm on a ballistic arc/trajectory, landing halfway to the next ramp on the other side! (somehow I didn't bottom-out on landing, or didn't feel anything if I did - must have been at least 15 feet of air-time,  if not more...)

Edited October 26, 2023 by Cyberwolf

[novazeus]

that's kinda the reason for this poll of guesses. i'm torn between, it's better to stay under the radar, or actually look for permissions to ride. i didn't know scooters were illegal on sidewalks until reading this article just now.

i guess i should have asked if u think there's more than 50k current riders worldwide, or more than 100k, or more than 500k or more than a million. 

my guess would be 50k current euc owners and riders. 

https://www.tampabay.com/news/2023/09/16/st-petersburg-scooter-crash-death-veo/

[skunkmonkey]

Just now, novazeus said:

i didn't know scooters were illegal on sidewalks until reading this article just now

Legality changes drastically from state to state, and even from city to city. In my experience though, police don't care as long as you're not driving like one of those NYC lunatics weaving in and out of traffic, and making a nuisance of yourself. Riding sensibly in the bike lane, slowing down to pass bicyclists, etc. I've had zero issues with cops on either an EUC or a scooter, and I've been riding scooters for years now.

[Hellkitten]

@skunkmonkey I've been riding scooters for years now.
Yet another convert………

Edited October 27, 2023 by Hellkitten

[novazeus]

3 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

Legality changes drastically from state to state, and even from city to city. In my experience though, police don't care as long as you're not driving like one of those NYC lunatics weaving in and out of traffic, and making a nuisance of yourself. Riding sensibly in the bike lane, slowing down to pass bicyclists, etc. I've had zero issues with cops on either an EUC or a scooter, and I've been riding scooters for years now.

i agree. i can't get cops to investigate real crime. i had illegal dumping in my 2cy dumpster sat night, call the sheriff and they won't even investigate. worthless!

 

[Cyberwolf]

1 hour ago, novazeus said:

that's kinda the reason for this poll of guesses. i'm torn between, it's better to stay under the radar, or actually look for permissions to ride.

General life rule (somewhere in the top-10, I think): 

Never preemptively ask permission to do something (or request additional clarification of such) for which there is no explicit or implicit requirement/expectation to do so, and is not currently and explicitly illegal or prohibited...

Hammer, meet Nail.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

3 minutes ago, Cyberwolf said:

Never preemptively ask permission

So they say" sometimes it's better to beg for forgiveness then ask for permission."

[novazeus]

i never leave the ranch. the two occasions i did a little demonstration in the parking lot of this restaurant/bar, the patrons froze in their tracks like they saw bigfoot. i am pretty hairy, but i think it was the wheel. this was like 5 years ago but i doubt humans have seen many since. i'm trying to live vicariously thru y'alls experiences in the wild. 

i'd love to use my wheel someday to dash next door for something, but if humans are gonna give me undue attention, while i understand their curiosity, and aren't doing anything wrong, idk if i want that extra attention. never felt that way riding motorcycles, but harley's have a f u attitude anyway. haha, i don't feel very bikerish on my wheels. i still say if jason were to show up at sturgis, daytona bike week or biketoberfest, he'd sell a bunch of wheels to drunk bikers. 

[novazeus]

if we, as euc riders, don't coalesce, with all pev's and lobby our local govts, we will get pushed out of everywhere. 

i'm thinking the euc manufacturer's are gonna focus more offroad because of these govt regulations. and idiots killing humans riding pevs. i mean they kill humans every other day in florida on bicycles, but a scooter killing an old lady is big news. what we are up against. that and the fires. 

[novazeus]

the other thing is, here in my neighborhood, the sidewalks and multiuse paths are 99.97% unused. the govt makes developers build them as afterthoughts. no shade, no water, u would die in about a mile walking in florida in our swamp heat, so everybody is in their cars with the ac on. but but but, the multiuse paths would be delightful at 20mph on my wheel. multiuse paths were made for wheels. i don't think e-bikes have made it out here yet, although the apt developer i'm talking to, has an e-bike.