Hsiang Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Sorry for the overly dramatized title! But may be because it is my first Seriously Fast EUC just getting on and riding the z10 seems solicit fast music and sounds of explosion in my head! I am planning on making a series of videos documenting my experiences learning to ride the Z10, and figure I'll keep them in one thread. Here's my video on my first few days riding the Z10. Hope it is as much fun to watch as it is to make! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Well done video! About the wobbles, that's due to the rider, not the wheel. Though on the Z10 with the extra wide tire, a rock or something on one side of the tire might also induce wobble. You mention your stance, it is indeed unusual. Most riders will be on the outside of the pedals with their feet, and overhang is common. Pretty sure that's because you learnt on the i5 where not touching the sides doesn't work because the wheel and its tire are so thin and instable. But normally, you don't touch the wheel's sides at all and control it only via the pedals, unless you grab the wheel going up a mountain or doing a jump. In the same vein, the pronounced different ride behavior at different speeds seems to be specific to the Z10 because of the tire profile and width. "Normal" wheels are more consistent there. You've got two outlier wheels, after all. I'd love to see you get your hands on a Gotway or Kingsong 16 or 18 incher and hear how they feel to you, as they represent a standard wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 One solid entertaining production! Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 On 10/22/2018 at 1:31 PM, meepmeepmayer said: Well done video! About the wobbles, that's due to the rider, not the wheel. Though on the Z10 with the extra wide tire, a rock or something on one side of the tire might also induce wobble. You mention your stance, it is indeed unusual. Most riders will be on the outside of the pedals with their feet, and overhang is common. Pretty sure that's because you learnt on the i5 where not touching the sides doesn't work because the wheel and its tire are so thin and instable. But normally, you don't touch the wheel's sides at all and control it only via the pedals, unless you grab the wheel going up a mountain or doing a jump. In the same vein, the pronounced different ride behavior at different speeds seems to be specific to the Z10 because of the tire profile and width. "Normal" wheels are more consistent there. You've got two outlier wheels, after all. I'd love to see you get your hands on a Gotway or Kingsong 16 or 18 incher and hear how they feel to you, as they represent a standard wheel. Thanks you! Since I mostly ride on my own, I don't have much opportunity (other than watching videos) to see how other people ride. But yes, I did learn to ride that way to help stablize the i5, and even thought it probably isn't necessary on the Z10, I still feel weird not doing it. I also think that this might have something to do with being a snowboarder and wanting to be more connected to the wheel. The essentric ride behavior is actually part of the attraction for me, I think it makes the ride more interesting and less focused on speed. which seems to be the obsession for a lof of the Gotway riders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Week One rides, speculation about the wobble and my first night ride with the NYC Eboarding group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Another well made video You need to find @houseofjob and others (there's an upcoming meet to have a look at the 18XL), you can meet during the day and it's EUC riders instead of eboarders. About the wobble: Find a nice smooth wobble-free stretch of road, ride it and bend your knees until you get wobble. That shows you wobble is the rider overcompensating into an increasing oscillation due to a non-relaxed stance. But the Z10's wide tire with its flat profile certainly can initiate such a wobble when you have a one-sided bump, or a tilted road and you always have to balance on the "edge" of the tire between it following the road tilt to the side and where you actually want to go (straight on). I don't think how wide the tire is or the mass distribution plays a role in starting a wobble strictly by itself, but it may certainly influence how the wheel behaves after a wobble has started or how easy it is for a rider to start a wobble (wider stance = bigger leverage). Why the wobble happens at higher speeds I'm not sure, but I'd say it actually doesn't happen more often then, just faster. So at slow speeds, any imbalance can automatically be compensated for because it develops slower, while a faster spinning tire simply produces it so fast you can't keep up balancing it. Maybe at high speeds the rider just isn't that relaxed as well, or rather, an unrelaxed stance reduces the speed to which you can react to an imbalance. Btw. galaxies are flat because in the gas clouds they formed from, angular momentum got averaged out due to particle collisions. See here. Not sure how that works into your theory, didn' get that fully, but it's a cool thing to know in any case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieterGRAMS Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Dude hit us up! I'm always zooming around downtown. Drop a DM on the EVwhere IG account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 18 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Another well made video You need to find @houseofjob and others (there's an upcoming meet to have a look at the 18XL), you can meet during the day and it's EUC riders instead of eboarders. About the wobble: Find a nice smooth wobble-free stretch of road, ride it and bend your knees until you get wobble. That shows you wobble is the rider overcompensating into an increasing oscillation due to a non-relaxed stance. But the Z10's wide tire with its flat profile certainly can initiate such a wobble when you have a one-sided bump, or a tilted road and you always have to balance on the "edge" of the tire between it following the road tilt to the side and where you actually want to go (straight on). I don't think how wide the tire is or the mass distribution plays a role in starting a wobble strictly by itself, but it may certainly influence how the wheel behaves after a wobble has started or how easy it is for a rider to start a wobble (wider stance = bigger leverage). Why the wobble happens at higher speeds I'm not sure, but I'd say it actually doesn't happen more often then, just faster. So at slow speeds, any imbalance can automatically be compensated for because it develops slower, while a faster spinning tire simply produces it so fast you can't keep up balancing it. Maybe at high speeds the rider just isn't that relaxed as well, or rather, an unrelaxed stance reduces the speed to which you can react to an imbalance. Btw. galaxies are flat because in the gas clouds they formed from, angular momentum got averaged out due to particle collisions. See here. Not sure how that works into your theory, didn' get that fully, but it's a cool thing to know in any case Glad you enjoy the video! I am still experimenting with the z10 but will think about this some more. I think the galaxy analogy camee from thinking about the rotational stability of a sphere vs a disk of equal mass. But that will probably never be a clear answer since like you mentioned, there are many factors, such as wheel and road profile, foot positions and so on. And again reducing the tire pressure might ease this issue some what, but I am guessing that it would be hard to prevent it from happening all together. This mostly came out of the feeling of the scooter being "tilted" on a sloped road, which I never experienced with the IPS i5. And the observation that wobble seems to happen in certain area, where the tilt of the road alternate. Anyhow, its been very interesting trying to figure this wheel out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_from_NZ Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 On 10/30/2018 at 8:54 AM, dieterGRAMS said: Dude hit us up! I'm always zooming around downtown. Drop a DM on the EVwhere IG account You need to make more videos please ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 On 10/29/2018 at 3:54 PM, dieterGRAMS said: Dude hit us up! I'm always zooming around downtown. Drop a DM on the EVwhere IG account My schedule is a bit unpredictable but yes, will love to ride with you guys! Hope you guys are doing the halloween ride tonight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted November 7, 2018 Author Share Posted November 7, 2018 Week 2 with the Z10, making friends with the NYC pavement and riding with the NYC Eboarding group in their Halloween ride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 I think I'll have to downgrade myself back down to zero again since this week I crashed hard and face planted on a concrete curb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Enjoyable video, though waiting for the crash was creepy The ABS-style braking behavior might be the Z10 limiting the braking deceleration/power when it gets too high for too long. Dumb behavior. Your crash, ouch. Looks to me the wheel either slipped (wet leaf?) or the wheel delayed the reaction to your forward lean - did you feel any pedal dip or did it feel weak or slow to react? One can see you were thrown off balance hard from the unexpected dip, tried to save it (pretty well, your hands were near the ground), but that didn't work. Looks artistic though, first you sit on the wheel and then get thrown off in a nice arc Your motorcycle crash comparison is a good one. No time for any reaction other than taking the hit, that's exactly it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 On 11/15/2018 at 2:29 PM, meepmeepmayer said: Enjoyable video, though waiting for the crash was creepy The ABS-style braking behavior might be the Z10 limiting the braking deceleration/power when it gets too high for too long. Dumb behavior. Your crash, ouch. Looks to me the wheel either slipped (wet leaf?) or the wheel delayed the reaction to your forward lean - did you feel any pedal dip or did it feel weak or slow to react? One can see you were thrown off balance hard from the unexpected dip, tried to save it (pretty well, your hands were near the ground), but that didn't work. Looks artistic though, first you sit on the wheel and then get thrown off in a nice arc Your motorcycle crash comparison is a good one. No time for any reaction other than taking the hit, that's exactly it. Thank you! now about the strange braking thing; I did sort of figure out how to intentionally make it happen, when I first start a ride, if I try to brake hard within the first 100 yards, I can make it happen even if it is not at high speed. Even with a 60-80% battery so I don't think it is a regen battery related issue. Maybe the wheel needs to warm up first? Still no clear idea on what caused the fall, but I am planning going back to the same spot and replicate the test in the near future. For this week; Central Park "offroad" rides, my woes with the IPS i5 and the search for the perfect helmet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 16 minutes ago, Hsiang said: now about the strange braking thing; I did sort of figure out how to intentionally make it happen, when I first start a ride, if I try to brake hard within the first 100 yards, I can make it happen even if it is not at high speed. Even with a 60-80% battery so I don't think it is a regen battery related issue. Maybe the wheel needs to warm up first? This is huge if you really managed to reproduce it!! Make a dedicated thread or post it in one of the Z10 threads so people can do their own experiments. Not sure about the warm up. Capacitors are full in 1-2 seconds, and then it could only be the battery or, more likely, some firmware idiosyncrasy. Probably the same one that lead to your crash and Marty's downhill dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hsiang Posted November 29, 2018 Author Share Posted November 29, 2018 On 11/26/2018 at 1:38 PM, meepmeepmayer said: This is huge if you really managed to reproduce it!! Make a dedicated thread or post it in one of the Z10 threads so people can do their own experiments. Not sure about the warm up. Capacitors are full in 1-2 seconds, and then it could only be the battery or, more likely, some firmware idiosyncrasy. Probably the same one that lead to your crash and Marty's downhill dive. Okay, I test it some more and was able to consistently reproduce the issue: Again, it always happen from a cold start and with in the first 100 yard, So turn on the wheel and go maybe 10 -20 yard and do a hard brake and it'll slip. I haven't dare to push it too hard since the wheel gets really weird when the brake slip like this. I''ll start separate thread and see if anyone else encountered this strangeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.