Kingsong KS18L, will it Marty or Rehab or not?

[Rok Tomažin]

13 hours ago, Unventor said:

It is a free software for Sony actioncams. I am not sure if it works with other brands. If you look up Sony fdr-x3000r and follow support and software you get to it. I forgot the actual name of the program.

Thanks. I was hoping I could use something similar for iPhone. 

[Lutalo]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

10 hours ago, Lutalo said:

I am generally pretty well informed about performance and real-world distance capabilities before I buy.

I don’t think you are

I beg to differ. A well-informed consumer considering a purchase is different from a well-informed user.

The user has empirical knowledge, while the well-informed consumer is a shopper that conceptualizes a personal experience based on: the empirical knowledge of users aligned with available data about a product or service.

The theoretical knowledge and expectations gained while shopping is what fuels a process that turns shoppers into owners, or turns them away. 

When I shop I fully recognize and accept the inherent limitations of not having actually used a product. I confirm the value of my shopping research when a products empirically meets my theoretical expectations.

Now that I am an experienced user of kingsong products I currently ride an 18 I am empirically aware of it range capabilities. I ride frequently, and since I have never seen a 10% battery, the device obviously meets my range needs as I expected it would, because I sir, am a well-informed consumer.

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, Lutalo said:

A well-informed consumer considering a purchase is different from a well-informed user.

I agree with you 100%. But that was not the point. The point was that the ”data” (real-world range) itself is faulty.

I can empty my 1020Wh 16S in 35km, and I can probably cruise with a near 1000Wh V10F for 50km. Then I make a Youtube video complaining that the 16S has a lousy range. That ”data” would show that V10F has a lot better efficiency and range.

Anyone making anything with that ”data”, forming an opinion or deciding on a purchase, would be wholly mislead. The V10F might in real life be the one with the better efficiency and range.

Therefore the only range related data that a well-informed customer can look at when deciding on a purchase, is the plain amount of Wh.

[Lutalo]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I agree with you 100%. But that was not the point. The point was that the ”data” (real-world range) itself is faulty.

I can empty my 1020Wh 16S in 35km, and I can probably cruise with a near 1000Wh V10F for 50km. Then I make a Youtube video complaining that the 16S has a lousy range. That ”data” would show that V10F has a lot better efficiency and range.

Anyone making anything with that ”data”, forming an opinion or deciding on a purchase, would be wholly mislead. The V10F might in real life be the one with the better efficiency and range.

Therefore the only range related data that a well-informed customer can look at when deciding on a purchase, is the plain amount of Wh.

My original point is that I am usually on the on the late side of early adoption when it comes to new products that I might like. This practice provides me an opportunity to acquire more data to become better informed about a product. I described myself as "well-informed," with all due respect to the inherent limitations of available and attainable information on the  "shopper" side of a purchase.

I believe that your point is that I cannot be well-informed because the available range data is inconsistent and therefore faulty and represents misinformation.

For the sake of discussion, I will accept how I think you are defining "faulty"; as a wide range of distance results under "apparently" similar circumstances and/or conditions.

Owing to that definition, I am also compelled to accept your very simple rationalization that it is impossible to be "well-informed" when available information is faulty.

I do not oppose your reasoning; bad information = poorly informed shopper. I do however, oppose your premise that the real-world range variation in the data makes it by definition faulty.

Considering the high levels of intelligence I usually encounter on this forum, I think data result variations simply gives enthusiasts more valuable information and factors to consider, interpret, and explain for the good folks who own or are thinking of buying.

Although your particular experience is quite valuable in informing the niche community that riders represent, I do not believe anyone would buy EUC's if they were not reliable enough for a rider to have a dependable expectation about the range of the their device of interest, regardless of whether that range tends to be long or short.

In fact, if the range performance on my KS dropped drastically, and I was not able to clearly attribute that to external conditions, or known mechanical malfunction I would be on this forum and elsewhere looking for answers.

I definitely agree with you that we must be careful in how we assess, analyze, and report available data (pretty smart group of people generally attracted to these wheels, so not much worry there). I would be in trouble with my assessment of a wheel if I could not reason that riding a wheel faster uses more power and thus depletes the wheel faster. 

Personally, my empirical experience has consistently satisfied the theoretical expectations I developed during the shopping research experience. The agreement between the two is confirmation enough for me to self-appoint as a well-informed buyer ??

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, Lutalo said:

Personally, my empirical experience has consistently satisfied the theoretical expectations I developed during the shopping research experience.

As you seem to have gathered a good amount of range reports, has there so far been an EUC model that has a notably short or long range for the battery size?

[Lutalo]

11 hours ago, mrelwood said:

As you seem to have gathered a good amount of range reports, has there so far been an EUC model that has a notably short or long range for the battery size?

My empirical range assessments come from the 3 KS 18's that I and my 3 sons ride and have been riding for close to two years. I am not sure about the day to day range performance of other models, but I do not recall a great deal of complaints from riders of other wheels about unusually short range for battery size. As I am sure you well know, there are a number of factors that impact range; rider size, surface condition, weather, terrain, etc. Most of time unusually short range seems attributable to one or more of those factors.

I have personally not encountered drastic changes in any one of these factors as I tend to be rather wimpy about riding in inclement conditions; nor do I allow my sons to ride in more extreme conditions. For example, my son rides his KS to school and work. I pick him up from work if its raining.

Yesterday, I did a 26 mile ride on a route through Washington, DC that I have taken on numerous occasions in varying but never extreme weather conditions. Each time I take this particular route my KS returns a similar percentage of battery usage. So I do not know if my range is "less than it should be,"  but it is what I expect to get and it has not changed.

My oldest son is a college student, who rides the 23 mile round trip from home to the University of Maryland campus frequently. His range results are also highly consistent and predictable. 

This weekend I am planning a recon ride of a similar distance (not sure of the actual route distance yet. I will use the app be certain) on the Anacostia Tributary Trail System (possible group ride following that and I want to make sure that the whole trail route is feasible for EUC's just in case).

Since I have never used this route, it will be interesting to quantify and compare performance data with my usual 26 miler to see how and if a/this different route of a similar distance will affect my range outcome significantly. One thing that will be different is the weather. Weather professionals are predicting extremely hot temperatures for the Mid-Atlantic region this weekend. So it will be interesting. Letcha know.??

 

 

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Lutalo said:

I do not recall a great deal of complaints from riders of other wheels about unusually short range for battery size.

This was my original point all along.

[charlesrg]

So are you going with the KS18L or the V10 ?

I also have a InMotion V8 and feel I can get an upgrade if it will be easier to fix the flats.

 

[Lutalo]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

This was my original point all along.

Oh, ok. Cool.

[Lutalo]

4 hours ago, charlesrg said:

So are you going with the KS18L or the V10 ?

I also have a InMotion V8 and feel I can get an upgrade if it will be easier to fix the flats.

 

Sorry. Since no quote was posted, I am not sure to whom you are directing your question. In case its me, the 18L is my choice. I have preordered and are waiting for the shipments to hit U.S. shores.