Noam Elad Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 i found out that it is forbbiden to ship to israel euc so i want to buy it abroad and take it apart and send it in pieces to israel. But my main concered is the battery, i cant bring to israel those big batteries , i can make it in israel so it is not a big problem. my question is , do different wh batteries wheels in the same model have a different battery compartment size or a different motor? for example the ks16s with 840wh battery and the ks16s with 680wh battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaughthammer Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Noam Elad said: for example the ks16s with 840wh battery and the ks16s with 680wh battery Those two batteries have the exact same outer dimensions, as they are made from the same number of 18650 cells, just with different capacity cells. Usually the manufacturers use the same shell for all battery options available. The only exception that I am aware of are the ACM and MSuper by gotway, that use wider sideplates to gain more space for the largest battery options. Oh, and IPS does this for the T680+ aka 151+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Elad Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, Slaughthammer said: Those two batteries have the exact same outer dimensions, as they are made from the same number of 18650 cells, just with different capacity cells. Usually the manufacturers use the same shell for all battery options available. The only exception that I am aware of are the ACM and MSuper by gotway, that use wider sideplates to gain more space for the largest battery options. Oh, and IPS does this for the T680+ aka 151+ so if i buy the 680 wh and use 840 wh battery i should be fine? and the motor's abilities should be the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 32 minutes ago, Noam Elad said: so if i buy the 680 wh and use 840 wh battery i should be fine? and the motor's abilities should be the same? The capacity should be fine, the firmware doesn't "know" the battery capacity, it's just monitoring the voltage level. Since both 680Wh & 840Wh -packs are made from same amount of cells (same nominal/maximum voltage), the wheel doesn't know the difference. But, in case of KS16S, the battery packs actually have an extra-wire going to the mainboard, I have no idea if a specific type of BMS is required, it might be the wheel won't function without whatever is coming through that wire (might be just a voltage-level signal or an entire communication protocol). For KS16B/C etc. older models, this seems not to be the case, and there custom packs should work just fine with "normal BMSs", as long as they're picked & done correctly, of course I had the unpleasant privilege to learn it firsthand that not all battery pack making companies are aware of the details, like requiring separate charging & discharging-side, so the charging-side overvoltage protection won't kick in and cut power going downhill due to higher voltage caused by regenerative braking... For 840Wh packs, you use 64 pieces of unprotected 3500mAh cells, built into four series of 16 cells each. Most manufacturers seem to use LG MJ1's for the 840Wh packs. Don't buy cheap "4000mAh or more" cells from eBay/Aliexpress/Amazon, they're fake. No real manufacturer makes 18650's with more than 3500mAh currently, anything claiming higher capacity is fake. Stick with large manufacturers, Samsung, LG, Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic and a trusted reseller... You also need correct connectors and the BMS(s) for handling charging & balancing and high enough allowed max output current, for example 1RadWerkstatt ( http://www.1radwerkstatt.de/ ) can maybe provide you the correct BMSs for KS16S, but I don't know for sure. At least they can for wheels that do not require any extra wires from the packs. If you don't have the tools / know-how, find someone with a battery spot-welder and skills to make the packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Elad Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 11 minutes ago, esaj said: The capacity should be fine, the firmware doesn't "know" the battery capacity, it's just monitoring the voltage level. Since both 680Wh & 840Wh -packs are made from same amount of cells (same nominal/maximum voltage), the wheel doesn't know the difference. But, in case of KS16S, the battery packs actually have an extra-wire going to the mainboard, I have no idea if a specific type of BMS is required, it might be the wheel won't function without whatever is coming through that wire (might be just a voltage-level signal or an entire communication protocol). For KS16B/C etc. older models, this seems not to be the case, and there custom packs should work just fine with "normal BMSs", as long as they're picked & done correctly, of course I had the unpleasant privilege to learn it firsthand that not all battery pack making companies are aware of the details, like requiring separate charging & discharging-side, so the charging-side overvoltage protection won't kick in and cut power going downhill due to higher voltage caused by regenerative braking... For 840Wh packs, you use 64 pieces of unprotected 3500mAh cells, built into four series of 16 cells each. Most manufacturers seem to use LG MJ1's for the 840Wh packs. Don't buy cheap "4000mAh or more" cells from eBay/Aliexpress/Amazon, they're fake. No real manufacturer makes 18650's with more than 3500mAh currently, anything claiming higher capacity is fake. Stick with large manufacturers, Samsung, LG, Sony, Sanyo, Panasonic and a trusted reseller... You also need correct connectors and the BMS(s) for handling charging & balancing and high enough allowed max output current, for example 1RadWerkstatt ( http://www.1radwerkstatt.de/ ) can maybe provide you the correct BMSs for KS16S, but I don't know for sure. At least they can for wheels that do not require any extra wires from the packs. If you don't have the tools / know-how, find someone with a battery spot-welder and skills to make the packs. umm it is pretty complicated to bring big batteries to israel so i need to find myself or made it on my own in some factory or something( maybe batteries from hoverboard?). my father works with electrinics and i have done electronics trend in highschool so i think that i will get along with it. i will check the purpose of this wire, there is any datasheet of the wheel in the internet that i can check? do u have exprience with the electronics of this wheel if i will need any help with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, Noam Elad said: umm it is pretty complicated to bring big batteries to israel so i need to find myself or made it on my own in some factory or something( maybe batteries from hoverboard?). my father works with electrinics and i have done electronics trend in highschool so i think that i will get along with it. i will check the purpose of this wire, there is any datasheet of the wheel in the internet that i can check? do u have exprience with the electronics of this wheel if i will need any help with it? I don't think there's any datasheets or even make & model of the BMSs mentioned anywhere, if someone has taken the packs apart, they might know. I haven't opened up the KS16S (yet), just seen the pictures of the board & connectors in the Ecodrift-review: https://ecodrift.ru/wiki-article/kingsong-ks-16s-luchshaya-novinka-vesny-2017/ The packs appear to be 16S2P (so 32 cell on each pack, one pack per side), and both apparently have their own BMS, check the MT60-connectors coming from the packs, there's a thinner blue wire going there next to the black and red, which I at least suspect to be some kind of data- or monitoring-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noam Elad Posted July 1, 2017 Author Share Posted July 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, esaj said: I don't think there's any datasheets or even make & model of the BMSs mentioned anywhere, if someone has taken the packs apart, they might know. I haven't opened up the KS16S (yet), just seen the pictures of the board & connectors in the Ecodrift-review: https://ecodrift.ru/wiki-article/kingsong-ks-16s-luchshaya-novinka-vesny-2017/ The packs appear to be 16S2P (so 32 cell on each pack, one pack per side), and both apparently have their own BMS, check the MT60-connectors coming from the packs, there's a thinner blue wire going there next to the black and red, which I at least suspect to be some kind of data- or monitoring-line. umm can i brake the battery into pieces and rebuild it in israel? btw are you from germany? i have friends there and i may ship it to them or buy in a store i need to know about the taxes or if there is any store so it will be cheaper to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 28 minutes ago, esaj said: . I haven't opened up the KS16S (yet), just seen the pictures of the board & connectors in the Ecodrift-review: https://ecodrift.ru/wiki-article/kingsong-ks-16s-luchshaya-novinka-vesny-2017/ Great info to keep on file as my wife will be receiving her new KS16s shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 10 hours ago, Noam Elad said: umm can i brake the battery into pieces and rebuild it in israel? Not really, the cells are usually spot-welded to nickel-strips... Getting the correct kind of BMS + cells + wires and connectors would seem a better way? You still need a spot-welder, I personally wouldn't trust just soldered connections, as there's lot of vibrations and shocks to the wheel. 10 hours ago, Noam Elad said: btw are you from germany? i have friends there and i may ship it to them or buy in a store i need to know about the taxes or if there is any store so it will be cheaper to buy. I'm not from Germany, but 1Radwerkstatt is a German company... no idea how the taxes & shipping work from there to Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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