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Ninebot acquires UL certification but I'm still concerned


fearedbliss

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Hello folks,

So I read recently that Ninebot is the first EU manufacturer worldwide that has acquired UL 2272 certification. I'm definitely very happy about this and it is a milestone, hopefully it forces other EU manufacturers to comply to the standard so we can all have a safer EU experience despite of brand. However, after the whole 1.2.2+ - 1.3.0 horrible Ninebot releases and pretty much no QA, I haven't trusted Ninebot in a long time. Are people still getting shutdowns? Acquiring UL certification is nice and all and lets us know that the parts the Ninebot uses are good (Which we all know they are definitely good), but what the UL certification doesn't test is the reliability of the firmware that Ninebot is releasing. After all of this, I've been a very big proponent of non-firmware upgradable EUs. Normally I would support firmware upgrades, but it seems to dangerous to be riding a EU on the streets and all of a sudden the wheel just shuts down because of buggy firmware. This also makes me worried of the cars that are being released by Tesla which also have firmware updates. There was a video I saw where people were able to hack one of the vehicles (Probably not a Tesla but just another car that was modern - I don't recall atm), and they shut down the vehicles brakes or something. But anyways, it's very worrisome.

http://www.hoodriderz.com/blogs/news/101180161-ninebot-obtains-the-worlds-first-us-ul2272-safety-certification-authorization-certificate-for-self-balancing-vehicles

- Jonathan

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I doubt UL2272 compliance would have helped any of the problems Ninebot had with firmware since they weren't related to the batteries or chargers. The UL site talks about the "electrical drive train" and maybe that could cover some of the problems we've seen, but it appears that this standard is mostly aimed at preventing battery mishaps like the ones that have been on the news.

You can see the table of contents for the tests here:  http://ulstandards.ul.com/standard/?id=2272

On that list, the interesting ones outside the battery aspect would be the ones related to the motor, thermal cycling, and water exposure. There are no details about exactly what is tested and what it takes to pass though. For all we know they are just making sure that the motor actually *does* shut down to protect the battery from damage, even if that ends up hurting the rider!

 

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From what I was told UL2271 certification is for Mini only and it opens the path for Mini Pro sales in the US.  I am still waiting for a copy of official press release from Segway on this topic.  Will post it once we receive a copy.

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18 hours ago, fearedbliss said:

Hello folks,

So I read recently that Ninebot is the first EU manufacturer worldwide that has acquired UL 2272 certification. I'm definitely very happy about this and it is a milestone, hopefully it forces other EU manufacturers to comply to the standard so we can all have a safer EU experience despite of brand. However, after the whole 1.2.2+ - 1.3.0 horrible Ninebot releases and pretty much no QA, I haven't trusted Ninebot in a long time. Are people still getting shutdowns? Acquiring UL certification is nice and all and lets us know that the parts the Ninebot uses are good (Which we all know they are definitely good), but what the UL certification doesn't test is the reliability of the firmware that Ninebot is releasing. After all of this, I've been a very big proponent of non-firmware upgradable EUs. Normally I would support firmware upgrades, but it seems to dangerous to be riding a EU on the streets and all of a sudden the wheel just shuts down because of buggy firmware. This also makes me worried of the cars that are being released by Tesla which also have firmware updates. There was a video I saw where people were able to hack one of the vehicles (Probably not a Tesla but just another car that was modern - I don't recall atm), and they shut down the vehicles brakes or something. But anyways, it's very worrisome.

http://www.hoodriderz.com/blogs/news/101180161-ninebot-obtains-the-worlds-first-us-ul2272-safety-certification-authorization-certificate-for-self-balancing-vehicles

- Jonathan

@fearedbliss, maybe that's how they got that cert, by constantly improving product. I notice some other manufacturers following suit.

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Ul2272 is a standard that has to do with the battery and charger and how they work as part of the scooter syste. This standard does not address the overall safety of the eucs or the firmware shitdowns not related to the specific battery tests. It does address waterproofing but only as it relates to battery malfunction from the water seeping thru. This standard is not just for ninebot products. All hoverboards and eucs can be tested under this standard whether they have a handle or not. I know this for a fact as i spoke to the relevant officials at the consumer product safety commission as well as the ul lab itself

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The number one fear of these things is cutout.  I suggest a trailing wheel attached to the unicycle so if cutout happens you would be coasting like a skateboard.  It wouldn't be a skateboard,might not look as cool as riding a euc, but total safety.  Or better a leading wheel so the weight is on the front. Actually I guess I want an electric bicycle that you stand on without the seat.

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Here is the statement about UL2272 certification.  It clearly only applies to N3M320 (Mini Pro) model.  

https://ninebot-store.com/us/blog_news/Ninebot-Mini-Pro-UL2272-certification-and-labeling

The big thing is not so much certification (since its kind of voluntarily) is about the holographic label that will be attached to the UL2272 certified products. 

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On 16.5.2016 at 7:20 AM, fearedbliss said:

Normally I would support firmware upgrades, but it seems to dangerous to be riding a EU on the streets and all of a sudden the wheel just shuts down because of buggy firmware.

Nobody is being forced to do a firmware update - if you are frightend, just don't update or wait a while. Sometimes I wonder why people have bought a unicycle - it's a really new way to commute and of cause we are still at the beginning and there may be problems in hardware or software.

I think the most (not the low cost) devices are really fine. Personaly I've ridden my Ninebot E+ for more then 2.500 km and I feel really save on it. And yes, I was one of the guys who had a crash because of firmware 1.2.9. But I think it's time to relax and move on. Riding on unicycles or other electric "toys" a real good way to save a lot of energy, stopp pollution and solve traffic jams.

I guess the first cars had much bigger problems... ;-)

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I don't know what about a single wheel with a powerful motor makes people think 

"Yes, this is perfectly safe. I should ride this as fast as it possibly goes while ignoring all built in safety functions all the time. Without a helmet or safety protections."

 

With my knowledge of electronics motors and wheels I look at it and say to myself - this is a total death trap. But it's loads of fun. 

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