WakefulTraveller Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 I've had issues with the pack charging for some time now, but it's now reached the point where the charging light on the charger won't turn red no matter what I do. I half suspect the the BMS to the battery cells to be damaged. Another part of me suspects the charger, or at least I suspect that the charger has damaged the BMS. The charger connector was sometimes connected while incorrectly aligned with the charging port. I wonder if this could have damaged it. I have also been taxing the battery fairly heavily, so I'm thinking that some of the cells might be damaged making it not charge? I currently have the battery pack taken out of the EUC, I'm considering opening it up to see if there's any damage. I'd like to be able to diagnose this. I'm off to work, I will check back when I get home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Is your charger putting out the correct voltage still? I'd start with the basics and do a process of elimination. Also since you have the battery out and disconnected, with the charger plugged into the port check the voltage at the charging wires plug that normally plugs into the battery. If you are reading that same voltage the charging port and wiring have a good connection. What voltage are you reading from the battery? A similar issue arose in his thread: It would likely involve opening up the pack, but you could check individual battery readings. It depends on how familiar you are with electronics as all these steps involve some basic knowledge. There's only two wires going to the BMS for charging as far as I have seen so I don't know how a charger plug misalignment could do anything bad. It might just not charge in that case. Maybe check the pins and charger plug for damage? There's usually a notch that prevents misalignment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefulTraveller Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I don't actually own a multimeter, but I'm considering getting one. I do have a thing that measures the electricity from an outlet to a device and I gave it a go. The wattage doesn't change in the slightest when I plug the charger into the Gotway. This is with the batteries plugged in. I don't know if that tells you anything, but yeah, that's all I have to go on. There is a notch for alignment, but it doesn't work very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Oh that watt meter thing won't tell us too much especially with the battery out as there isn't any current being drawn as it's an open circuit. It might tell you how much power the charger consumes while plugged in and not charging anything but not much else. You really need a multimeter to test things like continuity and voltages. It comes in very handy to check batteries so you'll find it useful for more than one thing. It sounds like you might not have a lot of electronics experience. Have you soldered before? Here's a basic how to use a multimeter video to review. There's nothing wrong with getting a digital multimeter with range settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefulTraveller Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I have successfully soldered a motor onto a toy grade quad copter before, but I have found that I'm really not good at it, and I'm very reluctant to breath in any of the soldering fumes. I ended up ordering a cheap multimeter, hopefully it will serve my purposes. Thanks for the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 Like anything else it does take some practice. The more you do the better you get although it also depends on whether you have a good soldering iron. Some are better than others. When I first learned we practiced joining pieces of various gauge wire ends together after stripping a little of the plastic sheathing off. If you have some old broken motherboards you can practice removing capacitors and soldering them back on. A solder sucker can be helpful. With the fumes you can just blow them away or work in a well ventilated space. I think it's mostly rosen fumes, but best not to breath in a lot that's for sure. As a kid I helped assemble an old Heathkit Hero 1 robot from parts so that was really good practice at soldering components onto printed circut boards. Fun times. Another option might be to take the pack and charger / EUC to a battery shop or electric bike store to have it checked over and to get an estimate for repair as they likely would have all he resources to do it. Sometimes these electronic components can be a bit daunting to fix unless you have the time and inkling to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 3, 2016 Share Posted May 3, 2016 11 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said: I've had issues with the pack charging for some time now, but it's now reached the point where the charging light on the charger won't turn red no matter what I do. Just to be sure - also when you drive with your wheel (and consume battery capacity) you cannot charge it again to the last level... Your charger also has a green "idle" light and a red "charging" light, or something similar? 11 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said: I half suspect the the BMS to the battery cells to be damaged. Another part of me suspects the charger, or at least I suspect that the charger has damaged the BMS. The charger connector was sometimes connected while incorrectly aligned with the charging port. I wonder if this could have damaged it. You had some sparks, fumes, small "explosions" while the charger connector was misaligned? 11 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said: I have also been taxing the battery fairly heavily, so I'm thinking that some of the cells might be damaged making it not charge? I currently have the battery pack taken out of the EUC, I'm considering opening it up to see if there's any damage. I'd like to be able to diagnose this. I'm off to work, I will check back when I get home. Some burned parts of the BMS should be quite easily recognizable - but don't have to be... An voltmeter, as @HunkaHunkaBurningLovewrote would be very helpfull to further diagnosis.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefulTraveller Posted May 3, 2016 Author Share Posted May 3, 2016 I ended up ordering an extra 320WH battery pack to be shipped with the batteries to my new wheel. I will also receive another BMS board so that I can fix the 270WH battery pack or I can just keep it in event that one of the other battery packs fail. I'm actually thinking of selling the two together so someone else can do the repairs. It's my understanding that the newer Gotway BMS boards are better designed. I plan on getting the Charge Doctor attachment to keep the BMS and the cells healthy. Plus I will be careful to not let the battery packs overheat. Once the multimeter arrives, I will do some tests to try and figure out the exact cause, and go from there. There were no explosions or the like. The charger light is green when it's not actively charging. I believe that it becomes green again when it's passively topping off the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe73 Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 I have been having this issue with my MCM2S where sometimes the light would not go red and it wouldn't charge. The last time this happened I realized I didn't have it plugged in properly. You are right the alignment notch doesn't work well. When I plugged it in by sight instead of by feel the light went red and it started charging. Maybe all the other times I couldn't get it to charge I had it misaligned?? I'll check it closely from now on. Fortunately there are 3 pins so no way to swap plus and minus. I believe (hope) the third pin is not connected to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefulTraveller Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 I'm getting 66 voltage from the charger, 66 voltage from the charger plugged in, and 58 voltage from the battery itself. This is with the multimeter on the 600 setting. Is anything out of the ordinary here? I'm guessing that the next step would be to test each cell individually to see if any of them are off. I'm not sure that I want to open it up. How would I even close it back up again? Electrical tape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe73 Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 33 minutes ago, WakefulTraveller said: How would I even close it back up again? Electrical tape? Heat shrink is the usual way, search on the forums there is good info on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 It sounds like the charger is working normally. You said you also get 66v at the red Dean's connector inside the EUC with the charger plugged into the EUC charging port and plugged in right? That would mean your charging port and wiring appear intact so that leaves us with the battery basically. Is it a 67.2v battery? If you don't want to deal with taking the pack apart maybe bring it into a battery shop or ebike store to get a quote for repair costs. They might have the shrink wrap plastic on site there to cover it all up afterwards. It kind of depends on how do it yourself you are feeling. Say you take off the wrap and can measure each cell. You find one or two that are toasted. Are you wanting to order replacement cells and shrink wrap to replace them? I guess using electrical tape would work if you wrapped it really well, but I wonder if the adhesive would hold up to heat changes over time allowing things to fall apart. Maybe I just have cheap tape, but I find sometimes the sticky side gets slippery over time and gives away. Maybe some syran wrap first then a layer of tape for good measure? (Don't laugh I'm just trying to think outside the box here.) This member was able to repair his battery. You could read up a bit in this thread. You might wait to see what other people think you should do as I have no experience taking a EUC battery pack apart. @Shoe73 on my wheel there are 3 pins on the charging port, but only two are connected to wires. There is no ground wire or anything so I don't think it's possible to short something out even if the orientation notch doesn't work and are somehow able to plug it in rotated. My active pins are the ones adjacent to the notch. Battery shrink wrap info in here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefulTraveller Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 I did a test on each set of cells (4 cells per set) and I got a consistent 3.58 voltage of each. The board doesn't appear to have much in the way of heat marks. I'm a bit stumped at what to do now. Replace the BMS? Take the cells apart so that I can measure them individually..? Wait, I'm only getting 3.58 voltage of each... and there's 16 cells, so that would be 28.64, half of the total voltage. So I must not be measuring half of the cells. I don't know how to get at the rest of the cells. The ends are completely covered up. @HunkaHunkaBurningLove Yes, the battery pack is rated at 67.2 V. Also yes, I tested red Dean's connector inside the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 On 3. Mai 2016 at 9:19 AM, WakefulTraveller said: ... I can fix the 270WH battery pack or I can just keep ... 54 minutes ago, WakefulTraveller said: I did a test on each set of cells (4 cells per set) and I got a consistent 3.58 voltage of each. ...Wait, I'm only getting 3.58 voltage of each... and there's 16 cells, so that would be 28.64, half of the total voltage. So I must not be measuring half of the cells. I don't know how to get at the rest of the cells. The ends are completely covered up... A 270Wh pack with only 16 cells? I assume you meant 16 cell pairs? i assume you measured only half of them. Anyhow you should have big solder spots on the bottom of the bms board with every single cell (pair) voltage accessible. (Normaly nicely named and numbered) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefulTraveller Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 @Chriull I guess that you're right. They are all numbered... b1 - b16. To measure the voltage, I have been placing one lead cable on each of these solder spots, one on the B1 and another on the B2 and so forth. I don't know how to measure each one of these individually, as I only see one weld spot for each. Oh and yes, there's 32 cells in total. My mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 1 hour ago, WakefulTraveller said: @Chriull I guess that you're right. They are all numbered... b1 - b16. Then you still miss one spot - maybe the - or +? With 1-16 you would only have 15 cells inbetween... 1 hour ago, WakefulTraveller said: To measure the voltage, I have been placing one ? 1 hour ago, WakefulTraveller said: lead cable ? Whats that? 1 hour ago, WakefulTraveller said: on each of these solder spots, one on the B1 and another on the B2 and so forth. I don't know how to measure each one of these individually, as I only see one weld spot for each. You get the voltage of cell n by measuribg from spot n-1 to spot n (or n to n+1 depending on how the are numbered). Be sure to use a probe with a nice peak to get a solid contact and so the real voltage. 1 hour ago, WakefulTraveller said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefulTraveller Posted May 5, 2016 Author Share Posted May 5, 2016 @Chriull There is one that is B-, when I place one of the probes (lead cables?) on that and the other on any of the other spots, I get very inconsistent results. This ranges from like ~14 to 50~ and so I think that I'm not doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 5, 2016 Share Posted May 5, 2016 2 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said: @Chriull There is one that is B-, when I place one of the probes (lead cables?) on that and the other on any of the other spots, I get very inconsistent results. This ranges from like ~14 to 50~ and so I think that I'm not doing it right. B- could be the B0. You should measure one cell voltage from there to B1, as from B1 to B2, B2 to B3 and so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefulTraveller Posted May 6, 2016 Author Share Posted May 6, 2016 4 hours ago, Chriull said: B- could be the B0. You should measure one cell voltage from there to B1, as from B1 to B2, B2 to B3 and so on... I did that and I got the same results as before; I'm getting a consistent 3.5-3.6 voltage (the voltage appears to be right between the two). After testing just about everything, I'm left with the BMS being suspect. Now just to wait for the new board to arrive; and by then I will have a new wheel to ride... I'm already starting to go through withdrawal symptoms. And everyone, thank you! For all of your help! I think that we have found where the problem lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 6, 2016 Share Posted May 6, 2016 4 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said: I did that and I got the same results as before; I'm getting a consistent 3.5-3.6 voltage (the voltage appears to be right between the two). Good - so you seem to have a nice pack of spare battery cells. 4 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said: After testing just about everything, I'm left with the BMS being suspect. Seems to be the cause. 4 hours ago, WakefulTraveller said: Now just to wait for the new board to arrive; and by then I will have a new wheel to ride... I'm already starting to go through withdrawal symptoms. And everyone, thank you! For all of your help! I think that we have found where the problem lies. Happy riding again soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 If You really!!! missaligned The charging cable with the charging Port.....You Damaged something! as The BMS Is normally with included Short circuit protection it should Not get a damage from this.....try to find The mistake on The charging Port of The MCM....i would guess there was something Melting away! And so now Not working any more.... should be easy to Check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 3 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: If You really!!! missaligned The charging cable with the charging Port.....You Damaged something! as The BMS Is normally with included Short circuit protection it should Not get a damage from this.....try to find The mistake on The charging Port of The MCM....i would guess there was something Melting away! And so now Not working any more.... should be easy to Check The post from @WakefulTravellerwith the misaligned cables is missing? Or was it in some other thread? If i remember right he did not misalign something - it was already like this. And now he changed the charger port and the battery pack (including bms). I hope the charger port is only connected to the battery with gotways, or is there also some connection to the mothetboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 2 minutes ago, Chriull said: The post from @WakefulTravellerwith the misaligned cables is missing? Or was it in some other thread? If i remember right he did not misalign something - it was already like this. And now he changed the charger port and the battery pack (including bms). I hope the charger port is only connected to the battery with gotways, or is there also some connection to the mothetboard? Read The First Post carefully: On 2. Mai 2016 at 2:25 AM, WakefulTraveller said: IThe charger connector was sometimes connected while incorrectly aligned with the charging port. I wonder if this could have damaged it. ;-) Sounds clear for me....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 Ups ... I think i mixed up two different threads.... ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoe73 Posted May 14, 2016 Share Posted May 14, 2016 4 hours ago, KingSong69 said: If You really!!! missaligned The charging cable with the charging Port.....You Damaged something! as The BMS Is normally with included Short circuit protection it should Not get a damage from this.....try to find The mistake on The charging Port of The MCM....i would guess there was something Melting away! And so now Not working any more.... should be easy to Check I have plugged in the charging cable misaligned before and nothing was damaged. There are 3 pins in the connectors so when the cabe is misaligned the plus and minus voltages are not swapped, one of them is left floating and no harm is caused, I suspect. This may be why they use a 3 pin connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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