NOSFET APEX-01

[DavidB]

4 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Google will spit out tens of thousand of results for MOSFETS before showing anything EUC related because it will think you made a typo.

Came to this topic late as when I saw the heading I thought someone was asking a technical question about mosfets which I had no interest in, so I ignored it. I assumed it was a typo or maybe a brand of mosfet.

So I am with mhpr262. Seems like a dumb name for an EUC company.

[DavidB]

Just to clarify. Many things that I have thought were dumb,were not. ( "Hey Dave there is a new search engine. It is called Google, you should buy some shares" Me... "Weird name, anyway what's wrong with Netscape?") and many things I thought were good, turned out to be dumb.

So I wish Jack well on his endeavor.

[techyiam]

When I first were exposed to euc's, none of the brand names were recognizable in the least. For example, Gotway, Kingsong. They rubbed me the wrong way too. But over time, they just become another brand name. On hindsight, there's nothing wrong with those names. When I do a search in a buy&sell listing,  Begode or Kingsong always bring up almost all euc related items.

It's too subjective to criticize a brand name, IMO.

Ie. What does Apple has to do with computers? 

[Frolic0415]

11 hours ago, Rawnei said:

???

Dynamic tiltback.

Field weakening.

Hall sensor less operation.

Dynamic tiltback has been around for a few years, the rest are nice recent features though.

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Frolic0415 said:

Dynamic tiltback has been around for a few years, the rest are nice recent features though.

Not really, some wheels had speed based tiltback, dynamic tiltback (PWM based) is quite new.

[daniel1234]

14 hours ago, Rawnei said:

???

Dynamic tiltback.

Field weakening.

Hall sensor less operation.

I would doublecheck your sources, all there since two years ago. I build my own vesc onewheel before floatwheel was a thing(before my first EUC). I build this year vesc scooter out of begode motor and yeah there is no compatibility problem. VESC getting really utilized nowdays in el. moto to tune surron-like bikes.

It is weird if you feel that Chinese EUC is top motion tech out there. 

Edited September 20 by daniel1234

[Rawnei]

11 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

I would doublecheck your sources, all there since two years ago. I build my own vesc onewheel before floatwheel was a thing(before first EUC). I build this year vesc scooter out of begode motor and yeah there is no compatibility problem. VESC getting really utilized nowdays in el. moto to tune surron-like bikes.

It is weird if you feel that Chinese EUC is top motion tech out there. 

What on earth, you wrote there's been barely any major software features in EUC's the last years, I listed 3 pretty big ones, why are you even making this about VESC or my potential feeling towards China, then what about your feelings towards Australia and kangaroos?

[meepmeepmayer]

Mods say: Please stay halfway on topic (a new wheel from a new company, with virtually zero information about it right now) and don't stray too far away into whatever else, especially into personal conversations. Thanks

[Frolic0415]

8 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Not really, some wheels had speed based tiltback, dynamic tiltback (PWM based) is quite new.

Inmotion and KingSong have had it for years, both my V12 and 16x had PWM tiltback. Every wheel has speed based tiltback, my Airwheel X3 clone that goes 15kph has tiltback.

It's only new to Begode and Veteran, but it's definitely not new to EUCs as a whole.

[Rawnei]

8 minutes ago, Frolic0415 said:

Inmotion and KingSong have had it for years, both my V12 and 16x had PWM tiltback. Every wheel has speed based tiltback, my Airwheel X3 clone that goes 15kph has tiltback.

It's only new to Begode and Veteran, but it's definitely not new to EUCs as a whole.

King Song wheels are speed based not PWM based (even the S22 is speed based), that means if you accelerate hard enough you can overlean the wheel without ever triggering any tiltback since you will not reach tiltback speed before the wheel runs out of power. Inmotion I am not sure, if the setting is not based on PWM percentage then definitely it's tied to speed.

It really doesn't matter, it's a important feature that has become more common past 2 years which is both a very good thing and a software improvement.

[techyiam]

Inmotion V12 definitely has pwm based tiltback. And it works well.

I haven't seen anything resembling PWM-based tiltback on both my S22 and S16 Pro. I don't think they have PWM-based tiltback. 

Edited September 20 by techyiam

[mmk]

please excuse the newbie here. What does PWM mean in this context?

I'm only familiar with "pulse width modulation" but can't think how that might apply to tiltback triggering.

Or maybe explain how that works, please?

Maybe a pointer to another thread?

 

Edited September 20 by mmk

[Rawnei]

10 minutes ago, mmk said:

please excuse the newbie here. What does PWM mean in this context?

I'm only familiar with "pulse width modulation" but can't think how that might apply to tiltback triggering.

Or maybe explain how that works, please?

Maybe a pointer to another thread?

 

That is exactly what it is, and it's a representation of how much power the motor has, 100% PWM = no more power left go beyond that and the wheel will fall, power depends on what load the wheel is under, thus tiltback based on PWM is much safer than tiltback based on speed (which does not at all represent available power of the wheel).

[sbb]

8 hours ago, mmk said:

how that might apply to tiltback triggering.

Naively put: If the duty cycle approaches 100%, you fall over.  So, start tiltback at 80% or whatever.

[Paul g]

On 9/20/2024 at 6:38 AM, daniel1234 said:

I would doublecheck your sources, all there since two years ago. I build my own vesc onewheel before floatwheel was a thing(before my first EUC). I build this year vesc scooter out of begode motor and yeah there is no compatibility problem. VESC getting really utilized nowdays in el. moto to tune surron-like bikes.

It is weird if you feel that Chinese EUC is top motion tech out there. 

    It is terrifying how stifled the innovation is in the West while China gives no ***** about intelectual property and gets away with it. This is definitely not a level playing field and our politicians should take hard decisions before is too late. This is the skeleton in the West’s closet. We ignored it for so long that it came to haunt us.

Edited September 21 by Paul g

[NOSFET Electric Dreams]

  

On 9/20/2024 at 2:46 AM, Merkyu Kyu Kyu said:

The name is quite short, simple, and easy to remember. And it seems like a similar name is not used by other companies so when more info will be available across the internet, it will be easier to search and find the upcoming Nosfet products.

Thank you, I appreciate it. 

On 9/20/2024 at 4:16 AM, WheelGoodTime said:

6. Not listening to the market. Some manufacturers don't have a true grasp of what the EUC market is demanding and desiring. Being engaged with the EUC community online internationally - not just in China - is how a company can see what the masses are gravitating toward and why. Sometimes we are left scratching our heads wondering if certain EUC manufacturers still ride EUCs at all with some of their design/feature decisions. I don't think this will be the case with Nosfet. I believe that Jack has a strong depth of knowledge into the EUC industry, a passion for EUCs, and insight into the demands of buyers, so that won't be an issue. Knowing who else is on the team and the experience behind it, I have confidence that this company will be delivering an awesome product - especially with the manufacturer that Nosfet is partnering with for major parts of the Apex-01. Personally, I'm very optimistic.

 

Thank you for this message Rob. It's often a misconception that people think that they've only heard about it that this project started two days ago or something, the truth is that my experienced team and I have been doing this for awhile. The reason why I choose somewhat of a reveal with an actual product is because we do have the products. But I wanted to ensure that our product QC standard are high and what riders like myself and many other riders would put it through. The identity of APEX and the issue it tried to solve was one I felt was crucial in the market. 

 

On 9/20/2024 at 8:15 AM, DavidB said:

Came to this topic late as when I saw the heading I thought someone was asking a technical question about mosfets which I had no interest in, so I ignored it. I assumed it was a typo or maybe a brand of mosfet.

So I am with mhpr262. Seems like a dumb name for an EUC company.

I think the name will stick with you, I also thought of a few more Italian race car names but they sounded a bit pretentious and were hard to spell.

VESC:

I can tell you that we are not using a VESC controller though we have spoken about it. Here's the dilemma with using VESC from a business perspective. To my understanding at least:
1. You aren't allowed to profit off VESC, so if you are making a base level software for your product the code should be public. However as you can imagine this is proprietary property. EUC companies all have a different software's which is why they feel/ride/react different in different scenarios. 
2.From a liability perspective, if we create frame with a base level tune, and riders start tuning their own software and now theirs a bunch of videos of people falling over but with a certain brand stuck to it... it just doesnt make for good publicity. 

Some other details:

I know some people get really annoying about the countdown launch, we aren't doing it that way. We will do a public reveal when the product I feel is 100% ready, and it almost is, which as you may have seen is around a week and a half from now (if all goes to plan). But I do want to keep gathering feedback and have the conversation going whether positive or negative. 

 

Thanks

Jack

 

[Aztek]

6 minutes ago, Electric Dreams said:

But I do want to keep gathering feedback and have the conversation going whether positive or negative. 

For already made product it is kind of late (to implement some in the design) and too soon (to receive a feedback of the product itself, since it is not marked yet) 😀

So, we hope you've got it right, whatever this means for everybody.

[Rollin-on-1]

22 minutes ago, Aztek said:

For already made product it is kind of late (to implement some in the design) and too soon (to receive a feedback of the product itself, since it is not marked yet) 😀

So, we hope you've got it right, whatever this means for everybody.

They are probably refining certain aspects of the fw or optimizing an app or something like that in the final week+ so the product is ready at release.  

I wish Jack and the Nosfet team success.  

 

[onkeldanuel]

A massive opertunity would be using the new Molicell P50B Batteries for an 2P Setup , in addition with some Magnesium,  Titanium and even Carbonparts this would allow for some true Innovation (a high Performance EUC below 30Kg for track and trails) 

Maybe something was implemented in this Apex but i guess the P50B 2P setup its not

Anyways im really tempted and looking forward to the Release....will preorder immediately 😆

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Electric Dreams said:

The identity of APEX and the issue it tried to solve was one I felt was crucial in the market. 

It is indeed refreshing that the person leading the charge at Nosfet is someone with a vision.

Can't wait to find out what Apex-01 brings to the market.

Here hoping for a smooth and successful launch. 

Edited September 21 by techyiam

[Asphalt]

1 hour ago, Electric Dreams said:

VESC:

I can tell you that we are not using a VESC controller though we have spoken about it. Here's the dilemma with using VESC from a business perspective. To my understanding at least:
1. You aren't allowed to profit off VESC, so if you are making a base level software for your product the code should be public. However as you can imagine this is proprietary property. EUC companies all have a different software's which is why they feel/ride/react different in different scenarios. 
2.From a liability perspective, if we create frame with a base level tune, and riders start tuning their own software and now theirs a bunch of videos of people falling over but with a certain brand stuck to it... it just doesnt make for good publicity. 

These are understandable concerns for a company trying to break into an existing market, following a traditional business model. There’s certainly room to compete on design and engineering, although the domain of performance looks to have diminishing returns.

It feels like a lost opportunity to disrupt the entire industry by creating a company that provides quality hardware components based around open source software. Arduino, Adafruit Industries, and Prusa Research have successfully navigated this space.

In the automotive world, companies like Bosch, Magna, Brembo and Sparco successfully embraced the OEM and aftermarket parts market, enabling customers to mod and create their own vehicles without liability concerns for the whole vehicle.

 

It’s great that there’s more competition to be the “best” EUC manufacturer.

It’d be even greater for the EUC community if an open source project were to be established and supported. 

[Funky]

3 hours ago, Electric Dreams said:

The identity of APEX and the issue it tried to solve was one I felt was crucial in the market. 

Actual medium, great performing wheel? Something around or under 25kg? Yup - that would be very crucial in market, where we have mostly wheels over 35kg being made.

Sadly i don't see it being that.  You would want to do the same as rest of manufacturers do.. Build best speed and range possible at similar wheel weights as competition has. Same time having small things like serviceability, charging voltage, or even better torque, suspension setup. To have lead to getting sold your wheel over said competition ones. 

Bigger/Better wheels for less $$$ = more sales. Or design top notch wheel that isn't on market and sell for a premium.

Best possible power to weight combination in 20kg, 30kg, 40kg, weights. I can't see most people needing more than 70km range (~30km for smaller wheels) for their daily commute... (Not talking about "hobbyists", who want to ride whole day going endlessly, without destination in mind.)

Edited September 21 by Funky

[onkeldanuel]

2 minutes ago, Funky said:

Actual medium, great performing wheel? Something around or under 25kg? Yup - that would be very crucial in market, where we have mostly wheels over 35kg being made.

Sadly i don't see it being that.  You would want to do the same as rest of manufacturers do.. Build best speed and range possible at similar wheel weights as competition has. Same time having small things like serviceability, charging voltage, or even better torque, suspension setup. To have lead to getting sold your wheel over said competition ones. 

Bigger/Better wheels for less $$$ = more sales. Or design top notch wheel that isn't on market and sell for a premium.

Best possible power to weight combination in 20kg, 30kg, 40kg, weights. I can't see most people needing more than 50km range (~30km for smaller wheels) for their daily commute... (Not talking about "hobbyist", who want to ride whole day going endlessly, without destination in mind.)

Its clearly promoted as track and trail , so im quite full of hope that the weight/Power ratio is their top priority 

[Aztek]

Adequately powered, suspension wheel up to 30 kgs would be super. Selling my BG Master right away. 😀

[techyiam]

Apex is supposedly going to resolve issues identified by Jack on existing euc's. 

(0) Come equipped with decent power pads, and spike pedals right from the factory? 

(1) Maybe something to do with cutouts?

(2) euc's are getting too heavy?

(3) range isn't as good as it used to be for the same battery capacity. 

(4) Come equipped with a real smart BMS.

(5) I hope motorcycle grade headlight, taillight and brake light are considered. 

(6) A new suspension design?

(7) It shouldn't be waterproofing since newer Inmotion wheels have IP ratings.

(8) It shouldn't be top speed anymore for many riders. 

(9) I doubt it is the lacking of RGB lighting. 

Edited September 21 by techyiam