Begode Blitz 2400wh: 134V, 20", 79lbs

[Duster]

1 minute ago, Ronin Ryder said:

If you decide to come forward to claim something, like you did with assuming 24% on the wrong wheel, posting absolutely everywhere this piece of disinformation, you better be solid, else best to accept being proven wrong,as I just did.

I'm confused. You claim 70mph with Hsiang's video, but act like you're not being serious, but then refuse to provide context, claiming you're just "trolling." If you repeat that across multiple threads, then aren't you also engaging in inaccurate reporting, or worse yet, disinformation?

[Jayzao]

On 4/22/2024 at 6:57 PM, alcatraz said:

We don't need higher weight classes but new kings of their weight classes. If they can shave 1kg or increase the performance of an existing class I'm in.

Just like we strive for higher density liion cells, we should strive towards wheel power density!

 

Is the Blitz a new density king?

Agreed.
The sweet spot for me is around <35kg or under 75lbs.
Loading these things in the car, which we do every weekend, can be a choice with wheels in the 80-100lbs range.
What is the preferred "density" ratio of power or battery capacity and overall wheel performance compared to raw weight before pads and add-ons?

[Ronin]

3 minutes ago, Duster said:

I'm confused. You claim 70mph with Hsiang's video, but act like you're not being serious, but then refuse to provide context, claiming you're just "trolling." If you repeat that across multiple threads, then aren't you also engaging in inaccurate reporting, or worse yet, disinformation?

As I said, I was just trolling 3-4 gps extremists, the same ones. Hsiang did 70mph wheel speed. It's a fact, I know it, he knows it. He has always been posting wheel speed. Don't even understand why people are confused by his video. 

Edited July 24 by Ronin Ryder

[Jayzao]

1 minute ago, Duster said:

I'm confused. You claim 70mph with Hsiang's video, but act like you're not being serious, but then refuse to provide context, claiming you're just "trolling." If you repeat that across multiple threads, then aren't you also engaging in inaccurate reporting, or worse yet, disinformation?

Did Hisang even hit 70mph, or was that just clickbait to get folks to watch the YouTube video?
I recall he made sixty-something.

[Ronin]

Just now, Jayzao said:

Did Hisang even hit 70mph, or was that just clickbait to get folks to watch the YouTube video?
I recall he made sixty-something.

 

[Jayzao]

Just now, Ronin Ryder said:

 

Holy ships.
I cannot imagine 70mph on a wheel.
Thanks for the clarification

[Rawnei]

7 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Have a nice day. 

The passive aggressiveness. 😂

[Jayzao]

Just now, Rawnei said:

The passive aggressiveness. 😂

Hillarious!
All good.

[Duster]

 

4 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said:

As I said, I was just trolling 3-4 gps extremists, the same ones. Hsiang did 70mph wheel speed. It's a fact, I know it, he knows it. He has always been posting wheel speed. Don't even understand why people are confused by his video. 

 

I get what you are saying. I think the concern is that, even if you know that wheel speed isn't accurate, not always saying "wheel speed" when saying "70mph 😉" becomes confusing to the users who don't know the difference between wheel speed, GPS speed, and radar speed. In a forum, we seek to crowdsource information, which requires us to act in good faith when reporting figures. Therefore, just saying "70mph 😉" is like saying  "I rode at 100 today" and not indicating that you meant 100kph and not 60mph; you confuse the people who don't have the context to think "He must mean kph, as 60mph is a more likely figure to be reporting with current technology."

I mean, you've said it yourself in this thread and in the past (quoted below), wheel speed is inaccurate but gives a broad estimation of speed. So, then, regarding people "misunderstanding" Hsiang's video, there are two potential misunderstandings: (1) the viewers who think he actually reached exactly 70mph; and (2) the viewers who desire accuracy and are unsatisfied that Hsiang is using wheel speed without discussing the margin of error for his measurement method, or mentioning the other measurement methods.

The reason why this matters is that this community loves to talk about wheels' true potential, as it informs their purchasing decisions, and enriches conversations about racing, off-roading, and more. If someone just comes along and says "The GT Pro and Pro+ should never lose a race because it has a top speed of 70mph when other wheels only go 60mph," that'd be just as annoying as someone having to reiterate, "we don't know that for sure, as there are so many other factors and sources of error to consider that you can't just so confidently claim an inaccurate measurement as fact." This is a whole community of nerds. If you start making fun of people for trying to be scientific about a hobby that's built off of it (magnets, electricity, engineering, etc.) then you're being a jerk. And being passive aggressive while doing it is not going to make your contributions to the community pleasantly received.  

My advice, then, is that you can continue saying "70mph 😉," but to reduce how often you deal with people arguing for GPS speed, say instead "70mph wheel speed 😉" so you can simply reply to gps and radar users with "it's inaccurate, but consistent for the wheel, which means that it can be used properly." And "It can properly indicate how much headroom a rider has, which means it serves the purpose of keeping riders within their limits."  My point is, you can make your points without attracting so much negativity... And maybe troll people less? We're trying to collaborate and make good info however possible.

 

 

 

On 7/7/2024 at 7:21 AM, Ronin Ryder said:

Hi, here is below a GPS world record. GPS is really a "reliable" thing. No fantasy numbers here. 😅

@Hsiang reviews wheels with wheel speed, not gps. It's a known fact. Why acting surprised and requesting gps tests in a tunnel?  Do you want to see crazy numbers like the screenshot below? This is likely what's going to happen doing gps in the cutout tunnel. I myself got asked a few times by alledged gps experts to do gps speeds in a tunnel, I'm always speechless, as gps doesn't work in a tunnel 😅. 

The goal of these speed runs is to demonstrate the power and potential speed of a wheel. They are never accurate but are good to give an overall idea. They should be taken as such and nothing else. The clickbait title is just part of the euc YouTube game. It's info-entertainment. Working 25h+ on a video, it's normal to title it with something that translates into clicks, I wouldnt have done it differently. Nothing wrong with that. Imo of course. 

[Jayzao]

On a more serious note;
Are the discrepancies due to poor vendor coding or something disingenuous? 
I understand a five-mph discrepancy, but a +5-mph discrepancy is likely outside the margin of error for most GPS devices.
While the accuracy could vary depending on signal strength and environmental conditions, a typical margin of error is usually around 1-3 mph.
There is, of course, "Selective Availability." SA was a feature intentionally built into the Global Positioning System (GPS) by the United States Department of Defense. It introduced intentional errors in the publicly available GPS signals to degrade the accuracy for civilian users. This was done for national security reasons, to prevent adversaries from using highly accurate GPS for military purposes. However, I have omitted that as a cause as it pertains more closely to location.

Potential Root Causes of the Discrepancy:

• Wheel size and calibration: EUCs calculate speed based on the wheel's rotations. If the wheel size is incorrectly calibrated or if the tire pressure is low, it can lead to inaccurate speed readings. I don't know if this is a factor.
• EUC software: The EUC software may have inherent inaccuracies in its speed calculation algorithms. Perhaps stated speeds sell units?
• GPS limitations: While GPS is generally accurate, it can sometimes be affected by signal interference or reflections from buildings, leading to slight deviations from the actual speed. (see my note on SA)
• Inaccurate speedometer app: If you're using a smartphone app to measure GPS speed, the app itself could have calibration issues or be affected by the phone's processing capabilities.
• Testing conditions: Wind resistance, road incline, and other environmental factors can also influence the actual speed achieved by the EUC.
   

How to verify the actual speed:

1. Use a dedicated GPS device: High-quality GPS devices designed for sports and navigation are more accurate than smartphone apps.
2. Compare with multiple GPS devices/apps: Try using multiple GPS sources to see if there's a consistent discrepancy.
3. Calibrate the EUC: Follow the manufacturer's instructions to calibrate the wheel size and ensure correct tire pressure.
4. Consult EUC forums and communities: Other EUC riders might have experienced similar issues and can offer insights on potential solutions.

[Duster]

30 minutes ago, Jayzao said:

On a more serious note;
Are the discrepancies due to poor vendor coding or something disingenuous? 
I understand a five-mph discrepancy, but a +5-mph discrepancy is likely outside the margin of error for most GPS devices.
While the accuracy could vary depending on signal strength and environmental conditions, a typical margin of error is usually around 1-3 mph.
There is, of course, "Selective Availability." SA was a feature intentionally built into the Global Positioning System (GPS) by the United States Department of Defense. It introduced intentional errors in the publicly available GPS signals to degrade the accuracy for civilian users. This was done for national security reasons, to prevent adversaries from using highly accurate GPS for military purposes. However, I have omitted that as a cause as it pertains more closely to location.

Potential Root Causes of the Discrepancy:

• Wheel size and calibration: EUCs calculate speed based on the wheel's rotations. If the wheel size is incorrectly calibrated or if the tire pressure is low, it can lead to inaccurate speed readings. I don't know if this is a factor.
• EUC software: The EUC software may have inherent inaccuracies in its speed calculation algorithms. Perhaps stated speeds sell units?
• GPS limitations: While GPS is generally accurate, it can sometimes be affected by signal interference or reflections from buildings, leading to slight deviations from the actual speed. (see my note on SA)
• Inaccurate speedometer app: If you're using a smartphone app to measure GPS speed, the app itself could have calibration issues or be affected by the phone's processing capabilities.
• Testing conditions: Wind resistance, road incline, and other environmental factors can also influence the actual speed achieved by the EUC.
   

How to verify the actual speed:

1. Use a dedicated GPS device: High-quality GPS devices designed for sports and navigation are more accurate than smartphone apps.
2. Compare with multiple GPS devices/apps: Try using multiple GPS sources to see if there's a consistent discrepancy.
3. Calibrate the EUC: Follow the manufacturer's instructions to calibrate the wheel size and ensure correct tire pressure.
4. Consult EUC forums and communities: Other EUC riders might have experienced similar issues and can offer insights on potential solutions.

So much this! This is the kind of nerding we come here for!

my whack at it is that it's a multitude of the reasons you suggested that manufacturers have inaccurate wheel speed. I'm somewhat convinced it's the tire diameter that can affect this, as even standardized tire sizes don't ensure tires will be the same size. For example, my Nissan Leaf (sorry for bringing up a car in a wheel forum) over reports 2.5-3mph faster than I am going. This is because the tires on it are smaller in diameter than the larger rim option that I think the car was calibrated for (that only has a 1mph difference). I learned this through driving past multiple traffic speed radars (which often reported slightly greater differences than GPS) and through using Google Maps at the same time. Tire size makes so much difference that even a more regulated machine like a car is biased by tire size.  As this pertains to EUC manufacturers, we probably should expect the stock tire to be the one you get the most accurate readings out of, but even then we don't know if the stock tires that end up shipping with wheels are the ones the odometers were calibrated with.

Back to the Blitz, I think we all would like to see a speed test back-to-back with the ET Max or the Lynx, with cameras showing each wheel's odometer reading when going the same speed as measured by either a speed radar or GPS.

1 hour ago, Robse said:

Now I think maybe everyone should relax a little. I have ordered a Blitz. Expected arrival approx. mid or late September. And if the weather is for it, I promise that I will do a speed test ride as one of the first things, assisted by a good friend who has a laser speedometer.  And if i survive, I will present the result here. In the meantime, remember that the joy of anticipation is often the greatest

This. We all love riders like Robse!

Edited July 24 by Duster
Autocorrect typo

[Rawnei]

39 minutes ago, Jayzao said:

On a more serious note;
Are the discrepancies due to poor vendor coding or something disingenuous? 
I understand a five-mph discrepancy, but a +5-mph discrepancy is likely outside the margin of error for most GPS devices.
While the accuracy could vary depending on signal strength and environmental conditions, a typical margin of error is usually around 1-3 mph.
There is, of course, "Selective Availability." SA was a feature intentionally built into the Global Positioning System (GPS) by the United States Department of Defense. It introduced intentional errors in the publicly available GPS signals to degrade the accuracy for civilian users. This was done for national security reasons, to prevent adversaries from using highly accurate GPS for military purposes. However, I have omitted that as a cause as it pertains more closely to location.

Potential Root Causes of the Discrepancy:

• Wheel size and calibration: EUCs calculate speed based on the wheel's rotations. If the wheel size is incorrectly calibrated or if the tire pressure is low, it can lead to inaccurate speed readings. I don't know if this is a factor.
• EUC software: The EUC software may have inherent inaccuracies in its speed calculation algorithms. Perhaps stated speeds sell units?
• GPS limitations: While GPS is generally accurate, it can sometimes be affected by signal interference or reflections from buildings, leading to slight deviations from the actual speed. (see my note on SA)
• InaccurateH speedometer app: If you're using a smartphone app to measure GPS speed, the app itself could have calibration issues or be affected by the phone's processing capabilities.
• Testing conditions: Wind resistance, road incline, and other environmental factors can also influence the actual speed achieved by the EUC.
   

How to verify the actual speed:

1. Use a dedicated GPS device: High-quality GPS devices designed for sports and navigation are more accurate than smartphone apps.
2. Compare with multiple GPS devices/apps: Try using multiple GPS sources to see if there's a consistent discrepancy.
3. Calibrate the EUC: Follow the manufacturer's instructions to calibrate the wheel size and ensure correct tire pressure.
4. Consult EUC forums and communities: Other EUC riders might have experienced similar issues and can offer insights on potential solutions.

Honest opinion but with a whopping 15%+ discrepancy I'm leaning towards it being deliberate from the manufacturer in order to boost numbers, it's not that hard for them to tune the odometer to be more correct if they wanted to and around 5% used to be the norm up until recently with Begode and EB trailing of more and more from the 5% norm.

GPS inaccuracy discussion is not that relevant, it is easy to find the speed offset of a wheel from average numbers and use speed correction, both Darknessbot and EUC World have speed correction setting to normalize incorrectly reported speed from the wheel, once set this does not rely on GPS at all.

The apps are not inaccurate, they simply display what the wheel is reporting over Bluetooth, the numbers come from the hardware in the wheel and it's not a calculation in the app.

Example how to find offset using EUC World: Enable logging, go out riding for a bit, now load up the log in excel/google sheets and look at the average number of speed vs gps_speed columns and then calculate the percent difference (easy with online web calculator), this is the speed correction value, if you don't trust the result from one ride log several rides and use the average from all rides.

[Robse]

@Seba does the wheel report actual rpm as a number? , or is it only "wheel speed"? If there is rpm data, this will be the most accurate way to calculate the speed (assuming that the tire circumstance can be measured)

[Seba]

35 minutes ago, Robse said:

@Seba does the wheel report actual rpm as a number? , or is it only "wheel speed"? If there is rpm data, this will be the most accurate way to calculate the speed (assuming that the tire circumstance can be measured)

Wheels report speed, but it's internally derived from RPM value that is scaled by a fixed factor to represents speed. So there would be no benefit to have also RPM reported by the wheel, as both values would be closely related.

[Seba]

14 hours ago, Jayzao said:

EUC software: The EUC software may have inherent inaccuracies in its speed calculation algorithms.

No. EUC apps just reports what they get from the wheel. The only calculation occurs when translating from metric to imperial units or when applying corrections, but calculation is done with great precision.

14 hours ago, Jayzao said:

GPS limitations: While GPS is generally accurate, it can sometimes be affected by signal interference or reflections from buildings, leading to slight deviations from the actual speed. (see my note on SA)

Sat nav receivers built into modern smartphones in most cases provide great accuracy, enough to be a source of reference speed and distance data in our applications. I inentionally omitted GPS acronym, as these receivers combine GPS, GLONASS, Galileo and Beidou systems (although they mostly use two of these systems at the same time). Of course these receivers may lag, as due to power-saving required for mobile devices, their update rate is limited to 1 Hz and there's additionally a kind of integration filter. But when riding with steady speed, GPS values settle after 2-3 seconds and shows reliable speed.

14 hours ago, Jayzao said:

Inaccurate speedometer app: If you're using a smartphone app to measure GPS speed, the app itself could have calibration issues or be affected by the phone's processing capabilities.

No. Phone processing capabilities has nothing to the app precision. Also there's no such thing as GPS calibration in these apps. Again, what GPS reports is displayed by the app. App just doesn't have any capabilities to "calibrate" GPS data.

14 hours ago, Jayzao said:

Wheel size and calibration: EUCs calculate speed based on the wheel's rotations. If the wheel size is incorrectly calibrated or if the tire pressure is low, it can lead to inaccurate speed readings. I don't know if this is a factor.

Yes. Tire size, tire wear, tire pressure, rider weight etc. affects accuracy of speed readout. But not by several percents if you use tire that is standard for certain wheel.

14 hours ago, Jayzao said:

Testing conditions: Wind resistance, road incline, and other environmental factors can also influence the actual speed achieved by the EUC.

Only if there's a noticeable tire slip caused by really heavy headwind or riding uphill on a slope. EUCs are self-balancing vehicles; they need traction to work. So we usually avoid slippy surfaces, so I don't see "testing conditions" a factor that may influence reported speed.

But, what is more important and well known for years, all current wheels inflate speed they report. The only difference is how much is the speed inflated. And no, it's not related to a tire size. This is why long time ago I've added option to apply speed and distance correction to EUC World. And what is more interesting, there are wheels that need different correction for speed and for distance. For example, my King Song 18XL needs -11% for speed but "only" -8% for distance. This would lead to conclusion that speed inflation is intentional. Normally, both values would require the same correction as they are directly related.

EUC-reported speed and GPS speed difference is easiest to notice visually on EUC World tour speed chart. For example take a look at the @EMA's tour -  https://euc.world/tour/635267935071355 - when you take a look at the speed chart you'll see that brown graph representing EUC-reported speed is constantly above the color graph that shows GPS speed.

[EMA]

1 hour ago, Seba said:

But, what is more important and well known for years, all current wheels inflate speed they report. The only difference is how much is the speed inflated. And no, it's not related to a tire size. This is why long time ago I've added option to apply speed and distance correction to EUC World. And what is more interesting, there are wheels that need different correction for speed and for distance. For example, my King Song 18XL needs -11% for speed but "only" -8% for distance. This would lead to conclusion that speed inflation is intentional. Normally, both values would require the same correction as they are directly related.

EUC-reported speed and GPS speed difference is easiest to notice visually on EUC World tour speed chart. For example take a look at the @EMA's tour -  https://euc.world/tour/635267935071355 - when you take a look at the speed chart you'll see that brown graph representing EUC-reported speed is constantly above the color graph that shows GPS speed.

tnx as always @Seba

side notes for people who want to test wheel/gps speed:
 

• you should do it in a clean environment, no building, no trees, no interference, basically outside the city
• you should possibly ride straightline, don't do circles and tricks
• always remember that gps device don't report istant data like wheel
• wheel distance should be always a bit more than gps due to how the measure is taken (how much is the question)
• phone gps is not always accurate, any kind of garmin device is better for example, my android is good and shows pretty accurate numbers but i can't say the same about iphones
  example: garmin 60.5km - android 60.3km - iphone 67km - i've seen this more than once with my friends

with all that in mind in the tour showed above gps distance was 115km, my commander pro was 118 with -3% correction applied, a reasonable 2% difference to me.
maybe wheels are not so inaccurate like people said

JM2C

PS: Master is the same as CPro, Extreme is more inflated

Edited July 25 by EMA

[Frolic0415]

15 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Honest opinion but with a whopping 15%+ discrepancy I'm leaning towards it being deliberate from the manufacturer in order to boost numbers, it's not that hard for them to tune the odometer to be more correct if they wanted to and around 5% used to be the norm up until recently with Begode and EB trailing of more and more from the 5% norm.

Correct, my ExtremeBull wheel reports a speed that is around 10kph off actual speeds which is a much larger discrepancy than all my previous wheels. Begode/Extreme Bull like to bush the boundaries of false advertisement because they keep getting away with it and the EUC community keeps supporting them or even encouraging it (i.e. Ronin).

It started with manufacturers advertising their wheels with peak voltage as opposed to nominal voltage which is the metric used across all other PEVs, now it's wheel speed being artificially boosted with YouTubers profiting off it, I'm keen to see what other nonsense they'll come up with in the future with no negative consequences as the community gobbles it up.

[Ronin]

22 hours ago, Duster said:

 

 

I get what you are saying. I think the concern is that, even if you know that wheel speed isn't accurate, not always saying "wheel speed" when saying "70mph 😉" becomes confusing to the users who don't know the difference between wheel speed, GPS speed, and radar speed. In a forum, we seek to crowdsource information, which requires us to act in good faith when reporting figures. Therefore, just saying "70mph 😉" is like saying  "I rode at 100 today" and not indicating that you meant 100kph and not 60mph; you confuse the people who don't have the context to think "He must mean kph, as 60mph is a more likely figure to be reporting with current technology."

I mean, you've said it yourself in this thread and in the past (quoted below), wheel speed is inaccurate but gives a broad estimation of speed. So, then, regarding people "misunderstanding" Hsiang's video, there are two potential misunderstandings: (1) the viewers who think he actually reached exactly 70mph; and (2) the viewers who desire accuracy and are unsatisfied that Hsiang is using wheel speed without discussing the margin of error for his measurement method, or mentioning the other measurement methods.

The reason why this matters is that this community loves to talk about wheels' true potential, as it informs their purchasing decisions, and enriches conversations about racing, off-roading, and more. If someone just comes along and says "The GT Pro and Pro+ should never lose a race because it has a top speed of 70mph when other wheels only go 60mph," that'd be just as annoying as someone having to reiterate, "we don't know that for sure, as there are so many other factors and sources of error to consider that you can't just so confidently claim an inaccurate measurement as fact." This is a whole community of nerds. If you start making fun of people for trying to be scientific about a hobby that's built off of it (magnets, electricity, engineering, etc.) then you're being a jerk. And being passive aggressive while doing it is not going to make your contributions to the community pleasantly received.  

My advice, then, is that you can continue saying "70mph 😉," but to reduce how often you deal with people arguing for GPS speed, say instead "70mph wheel speed 😉" so you can simply reply to gps and radar users with "it's inaccurate, but consistent for the wheel, which means that it can be used properly." And "It can properly indicate how much headroom a rider has, which means it serves the purpose of keeping riders within their limits."  My point is, you can make your points without attracting so much negativity... And maybe troll people less? We're trying to collaborate and make good info however possible.

 

 

 

I agree with everything that you said. Name someone u know going 70mph wheel speed. Probably <5 riders max. 60mph? Probably 5<riders max. So this concern of accuracy at high speed is of a niche of a niche (not saying we shouldn't address it) . I observed a disproportionate noise about it though. Louder than the quality of the wheel or the design. You should see the tone coming from this noise, it wasn't very positive or collaborative. Trolling by saying "congrats for 70mph" is a passive way to highlight how ridiculous this situation is, ie 3-4 guys being so angry about such a small concern vs the mass of euc riders. Before asking me to post this less, maybe you should ask them to try first to understand what people are doing(Hsiang has always posted wheel speeds, in an out of the box experience fashion), before demanding aggressively, or dismissing people's achievements by posting inaccurate infos like I demonstrated earlier. This should be a start. I touched 63mph "" "" "Wheel" "" " on the GT PRO. I was terrified to cutout man, and the wind too... Was probably doing the same face expression than @Hsiang😁. The highest speed I ever hit. Can't imagine 70mph ####wheel###, the stress level... That's was a massive achievement on an EUC. Most of the people who adamantly asked gps (in a tunnel BTW)  barely go beyond 50mph. Not trying to advocate for high speed, I always said not everyone wants to go fast, but the sayers are definitely not the doers on this one. Hope this clarifies and that you have more background now. But this debate isn't going to change much. @Hsiang, and myself, are still going to post wheel speed. I might start to report the % GPS difference though. Hoping this will ease these people up a bit, if not, never mind 😁

 

Edited July 25 by Ronin Ryder

[Funky]

As sidewalk rider - This 70mph talk is so funny to read and watch how they fight about it.  

To me - 70mph? Huh, nice.. And what's the big hubbub is about? So what if wheel goes that fast? Where you gonna ride at that speed, aside of race track.. Highway?

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

34 minutes ago, Funky said:

As sidewalk rider - This 70mph talk is so funny to read and watch how they fight about it.  

To me - 70mph? Huh, nice.. And what's the big hubbub is about? So what if wheel goes that fast? Where you gonna ride at that speed, aside of race track.. Highway?

In Houston, Texas 50mph is the minimum you will want from your wheel. My commute has stretches of 40, and I have to keep up with traffic.

[Duster]

1 hour ago, Ronin Ryder said:

I agree with everything that you said. Name someone u know going 70mph wheel speed. Probably <5 riders max. 60mph? Probably 5<riders max. So this concern of accuracy at high speed is of a niche of a niche (not saying we shouldn't address it) . I observed a disproportionate noise about it though. Louder than the quality of the wheel or the design. You should see the tone coming from this noise, it wasn't very positive or collaborative. Trolling by saying "congrats for 70mph" is a passive way to highlight how ridiculous this situation is, ie 3-4 guys being so angry about such a small concern vs the mass of euc riders. Before asking me to post this less, maybe you should ask them to try first to understand what people are doing(Hsiang has always posted wheel speeds, in an out of the box experience fashion), before demanding aggressively, or dismissing people's achievements by posting inaccurate infos like I demonstrated earlier. This should be a start. I touched 63mph "" "" "Wheel" "" " on the GT PRO. I was terrified to cutout man, and the wind too... Was probably doing the same face expression than @Hsiang😁. The highest speed I ever hit. Can't imagine 70mph ####wheel###, the stress level... That's was a massive achievement on an EUC. Most of the people who adamantly asked gps (in a tunnel BTW)  barely go beyond 50mph. Not trying to advocate for high speed, I always said not everyone wants to go fast, but the sayers are definitely not the doers on this one. Hope this clarifies and that you have more background now. But this debate isn't going to change much. @Hsiang, and myself, are still going to post wheel speed. I might start to report the % GPS difference though. Hoping this will ease these people up a bit, if not, never mind 😁

 

I get the concern you're stating; speed isn't the only thing about a wheel that matters and we've sidetracked from the Blitz quite a bit, proving your point. I'll try to make this my last comment about speed on this thread...

I wonder if I have a similar concern to the 3-4 sticklers you're referring to. To explain further, there are plenty of times regular riders may have to ride on a 45mph+ road, where cars are definitely going 55mph+. I've hit (wheel) speeds of 46mph on my Sherman S, and that's when I got the level 1 beeps. I've heard that "high speed mode" makes those beeps around 80%PWM, so whenever I am at that speed I never push it further, in case I hit a bump. Still, I may feel like I need more headroom if I need to avoid a car coming up behind me, but if top speeds have a huge margin of error, I won't know if that 20%PWM I have remaining is 1mph or 5mph (the stated top speed on Eevees is 50mph for the SS, I think). Like you've said, going fast is scary. It's like walking towards a cliff with a blindfold on with EUC.

That's all to say, If I'm buying a new wheel, which is a lot of money these days, then I want to know if I'm actually getting a wheel that can go faster than the one I have (and thus give me more headroom when I need it). If what's been said is true, and Begode/Extreme Bull are inflating their numbers, then wheels aren't getting as much faster as the companies say they are. For example, Ewheels lists the EX30 as having a top speed of 55mph+. Now, I can't tell if they're referring to wheel speed or other speeds, but if it's GPS speed they're referring to, then the lowest margin of error for the GT Pro that I've seen quoted (15%) would then mean Hsiang's run at 70mph would be around 60mph instead. I'd be so mad if I swapped an EX30 for a GT Pro just to find a similar top speed and less battery. I'd feel confused, and lied to.

With all the varying information on EUC top speed, wheel power, suspension travel, etc. I somewhat value the 3-4 riders reminding us about the differences between wheel speed error between each manufacturer, as it helps my purchasing choices, and I don't want to get over excited for milestones if we haven't made them yet. I'm so excited for you and Hsiang for your personal records (I don't have a road to safely do it myself). But I also feel like Begode and Extreme Bull have lied to all of us.

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, Ronin Ryder said:

I agree with everything that you said. Name someone u know going 70mph wheel speed. Probably <5 riders max. 60mph? Probably 5<riders max. So this concern of accuracy at high speed is of a niche of a niche (not saying we shouldn't address it) . I observed a disproportionate noise about it though. Louder than the quality of the wheel or the design. You should see the tone coming from this noise, it wasn't very positive or collaborative. Trolling by saying "congrats for 70mph" is a passive way to highlight how ridiculous this situation is, ie 3-4 guys being so angry about such a small concern vs the mass of euc riders. Before asking me to post this less, maybe you should ask them to try first to understand what people are doing(Hsiang has always posted wheel speeds, in an out of the box experience fashion), before demanding aggressively, or dismissing people's achievements by posting inaccurate infos like I demonstrated earlier. This should be a start. I touched 63mph "" "" "Wheel" "" " on the GT PRO. I was terrified to cutout man, and the wind too... Was probably doing the same face expression than @Hsiang😁. The highest speed I ever hit. Can't imagine 70mph ####wheel###, the stress level... That's was a massive achievement on an EUC. Most of the people who adamantly asked gps (in a tunnel BTW)  barely go beyond 50mph. Not trying to advocate for high speed, I always said not everyone wants to go fast, but the sayers are definitely not the doers on this one. Hope this clarifies and that you have more background now. But this debate isn't going to change much. @Hsiang, and myself, are still going to post wheel speed. I might start to report the % GPS difference though. Hoping this will ease these people up a bit, if not, never mind 😁

 

You're omitting context, people took issue with world record claims and no mention of wheel speed, it was obvious clickbait to get more views, even looks like he changed the thumbnail now (I recall more clickbaity thumbnail and title?).

You guys can post whatever videos you like but don't cry when people have critique.

[Ronin]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

You're omitting context, people took issue with world record claims and no mention of wheel speed, it was obvious clickbait to get more views, even looks like he changed the thumbnail now (I recall more clickbaity thumbnail and title?).

You guys can post whatever videos you like but don't cry when people have critique.

"Cry" ? Wow... OK, somebody's angry,but not surprising...let's relax a bit OK? This is just a debate. I'll hold off answering to close this if it goes in that direction. Have a blessed day! 

Edited July 25 by Ronin Ryder

[Duster]

So, uh.... Back to the Blitz?

• I've been wondering, do racers miss the foam seat?
• Any ergonomic concerns with the handle?
• And a display on the handle? Looks sleek, but I wonder what happens in a racing crash. Would it hold up to a rollover (I'm thinking of the Extreme's tail light breaking)? The wheel should work with a broken display, and phone apps can handle a lot of other stuff... Is there something I'm not thinking about that could cause issues with a broken display?

[Rawnei]

47 minutes ago, Duster said:

So, uh.... Back to the Blitz?

• I've been wondering, do racers miss the foam seat?
• Any ergonomic concerns with the handle?
• And a display on the handle? Looks sleek, but I wonder what happens in a racing crash. Would it hold up to a rollover (I'm thinking of the Extreme's tail light breaking)? The wheel should work with a broken display, and phone apps can handle a lot of other stuff... Is there something I'm not thinking about that could cause issues with a broken display?

Don't think racers ride seated. 😁

Display looks neat but yeah it's in a vurnable spot for sure, some kind of bumpers almost necessary.

1 hour ago, Ronin Ryder said:

"Cry" ? Wow... OK, somebody's angry,but not surprising...let's relax a bit OK? This is just a debate. I'll hold off answering to close this if it goes in that direction. Have a blessed day! 

What's the matter, don't like the taste of your own medicine crying angry man? 😂