Mandatory insurance for the EUC in the Czech Republic from 2024/04/01

[FF9F00]

 

3 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

So who pays third parties? If eucs are exempt from insurance, what about motorcycles or cars? Should they all be?

Lots of devices are exempt from insurance in my country. EUCs, Bicycles, E-scooters. It's not a crime to own an EUC over here without being extorted by an insurance corporation. At least not yet.
As for your question, perhaps there should be exemption for EUC? You know pedestrians are also exempt from insurance, you are actually legally allowed to walk outside without the permission from the insurance mafia. That's because the probability of a pedestrian killing a car driver is very low. The same way an EUC rider's probability of killing a car rider is also very low. But the reverse is not true, the car drivers can much more easily kill us, hence they need insurance.
 

10 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

The problem is you can get yourself in debt for the rest of your life if you make a mistake or get ill in traffic or your vehicle breaks down at the wrong time.

Your grandpa's leg surgery has to be postponed until 18y old Jerry saves up the money to pay for it, after they collided in traffic. 

Easy solution, I just stay away from pedestrians in the traffic, in the same way it's very low probability that a random bicycle will kill your grandpa. My EUC will be the same.

[daniel1234]

I paid highest insurance possible. Even with legal help, in case.

It still cost less than EUCworld
It still cost just fraction of Lynx
It does nothing, but if it make policeman happy I will do it !

I am building electric kinckscooter out of C38 motor. Basically, current legislation allows me to make it moped and ride it with a1 license. 
Even though Veteran Lynx is a much better device all around, than any electric kickscooter it always be "gray zone" vechicle in my city, because of food delivery riders make police mad on EUCs.

I dont think that boomer generation who makes law cares about electric transporation. We need to wait until they are gone.

[FF9F00]

19 minutes ago, daniel1234 said:

It does nothing, but if it make policeman happy I will do it !

It won't make them happy, they will gleefully look into their database and check if your rigged device is Type certified, and when they find out your device is not in their database, they will take your insurance paper and shred it in half and compensate you with a fine instead.
This C38 kickscooter insurance, in your case, is a placebo, designed to make you happy, to give you the illusion that you are following the law.

[alcatraz]

Insurance companies aren't bastards if government can be lobbied upon and require people to buy their policies. It just means that government power is for sale, when it shouldn't be = corrupt government officials. It has nothing to do with corporations who need to compete to get ahead.

But we're getting offtopic. Larger vehicles require insurance. You're not going to change that. There's a divide somewhere between a bike and a moped. We'd all want to be legal without insurance but it might very well not turn out that way.

In some countries the lowest yearly insurance is way way WAY more than 9usd for motorcycles. Consider yourself lucky.

Countries that usually require insurance are those with high living standards and high cost of living. People can't afford to pay for damages out of pocket because it's expensive. In China, stitching and treating a decent wound is like 100usd. I wonder what it costs in Europe. Of course insurance becomes a big thing in expensive societies.

[FF9F00]

4 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

I wonder what it costs in Europe. Of course insurance becomes a big thing in expensive societies.

It's paid via taxes. The people who slobber at the thought of insurance just want you to pay twice. Once through taxes, and an extra time through insurance, because they don't value the money in your pocket.

[alcatraz]

14 minutes ago, FF9F00 said:

It's paid via taxes. The people who slobber at the thought of insurance just want you to pay twice. Once through taxes, and an extra time through insurance, because they don't value the money in your pocket.

So you want government free health care. That means long waiting lines and racing inflation of health care cost.

In countries where it seems like it's free, they're barely hanging on. They would love nothing more than exempt coverage for "daredevils".

I remember in Sweden, motorcycle insurance that is under the actual driver (25y old for example) and not a parent, is either impossible because of risk (they won't offer it) or it's 4000usd a month. The same company would insure your car for a small fraction.

Legally they're required to cover your hospital costs. Third party costs are low risk as you say, because a motorcycle can't damage as much.

But it shows you the real costs that you want the tax payers to absorb for you. Don't you want to have a job someday? If taxes are supposed to pay for everything, your contry has lost most of it's competitiveness and all jobs are gone. It's a problem. 

I argue that it's wrong that the rules can't regress back to what they were, once the jobs are lost. People get so used to their new standard of living that they'll never give it up. It's not worth "the hassle" for 20% unemployment rate. Let's just create another stimulus package instead. And they wonder why companies work so hard to get government handouts/special favors. It's the modern way by their own creation.

Edited April 11 by alcatraz

[FF9F00]

58 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

So you want government free health care.

Incorrect. I never stated this.
But if you want me to pay for the other person's hospital bill through insurance, then it's your duty to remove the hospital bill from my taxes first. You can't just order me to double pay for the hospital.
This isn't rocket science. If you want me to pay method A instead of Method B, I will do it.
If you want me to pay via method B instead of Method A, I will do it.
But don't think for a second I can't see through your scam when you want me to pay twice via Method A + Method B

Edited April 11 by FF9F00

[Rawnei]

13 minutes ago, FF9F00 said:

Incorrect. I never stated this.
But if you want me to pay for the other person's hospital bill through insurance, then it's your duty to remove the hospital bill from my taxes first. You can't just order me to double pay for the hospital.
This isn't rocket science. If you want me to pay method A instead of Method B, I will do it.
If you want me to pay via method B instead of Method A, I will do it.
But don't think for a second I can't see through your scam when you want me to pay twice via Method A + Method B

What about property damage? If you crashed into someones car and they have to pay for expensive repairs? Or you wrecked someones bicycle? Or ran into a person so they dropped their expensive Iphone 15 Max Ultra Deluxe or whatever million other possible scenarios where some sort of cost is involved.

[FF9F00]

4 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

What about property damage? If you crashed into someones car and they have to pay for expensive repairs? Or you wrecked someones bicycle?

Are people in Sweden so poor that they can't afford a bicycle?

What is my EUC going to do to the car? Scratch its paint? Chance are I won't crash directly into another person's car, don't you think?

[Robse]

16 minutes ago, FF9F00 said:

Incorrect. I never stated this.
But if you want me to pay for the other person's hospital bill through insurance, then it's your duty to remove the hospital bill from my taxes first. You can't just order me to double pay for the hospital.
This isn't rocket science. If you want me to pay method A instead of Method B, I will do it.
If you want me to pay via method B instead of Method A, I will do it.
But don't think for a second I can't see through your scam when you want me to pay twice via Method A + Method B

Hello again, something in your writing indicates that you either don't want to or can't face the realities.
Therefore, here is a direct link to the Danish legislation regarding liability. Sorry for the link to a
Danish page, other rules certainly apply in other countries. Below is my translation of the essentials.
And thus there should probably be no more to discuss here.

https://www.retsinformation.dk/eli/lta/2018/1070

Translation:

§ 1.
The person who is responsible for compensation for personal injury must pay compensation
for lost earnings, medical expenses and other losses as a result of the injury, as well as
compensation for suffering and pain.

2.
If the damage has had lasting consequences, compensation must also be paid for permanent
damage as well as compensation for loss or impairment of working capacity.

3.
The value of work in the home is equated with business income.

§ 1 a.
Compensation for future medical expenses and other future loss as a result of the damage,
cf. § 1, subsection 1, is set at a capital amount which can at most amount to the expected
average annual expenditure multiplied by 10. If it is a question of permanent current expenditure,
§ 4, subsection 2, corresponding use.

[FF9F00]

4 minutes ago, Robse said:

§ 1.
The person who is responsible for compensation for personal injury must pay compensation
for lost earnings, medical expenses and other losses as a result of the injury, as well as
compensation for suffering and pain.

2.
If the damage has had lasting consequences, compensation must also be paid for permanent
damage as well as compensation for loss or impairment of working capacity.

3.
The value of work in the home is equated with business income.

§ 1 a.
Compensation for future medical expenses and other future loss as a result of the damage,
cf. § 1, subsection 1, is set at a capital amount which can at most amount to the expected
average annual expenditure multiplied by 10. If it is a question of permanent current expenditure,
§ 4, subsection 2, corresponding use.

I guess if you're afraid your EUC is going to kill people or handicap them, feel free to grab an insurrance.
Thanks for the info though, I seriously thought the state would cover for the hospital bill through taxation. Maybe that's not the case after all.

[Rawnei]

27 minutes ago, FF9F00 said:

Are people in Sweden so poor that they can't afford a bicycle?

What is my EUC going to do to the car? Scratch its paint? Chance are I won't crash directly into another person's car, don't you think?

No I can imagine it actually, you're having a bad day, feeling angry thinking about all those taxes that you have to pay, you just happen to see the pot hole a bit too late because you are focused on the money that is not in your pocket, swerve to the side to avoid the hole and right into the door of a car next to you which leaves a sizable buckle in the door and possibly a broken rear mirror.

[FF9F00]

27 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

and possibly a broken rear mirror.

If you can't afford a rear mirror, then you probably can't afford insurance either.

[Rawnei]

17 minutes ago, FF9F00 said:

If you can't afford a rear mirror, then you probably can't afford insurance either.

Not sure what you mean, it's you paying for that mirror.

[Funky]

Concept of money itself is dumb.. Everything should be free!

1% of world population has more money, than they would ever spend in their whole life and next 100 life's. Compared to some less fortunate people, that are poorer and most common around world, living from paycheck to paycheck, trying to live..

Even elderly pensions - someone gets paid 50,000k every month. Next person is lucky if he gets 500$ monthly. And then they can choose to buy medicaments that he/she needs or choose food, because there is not enough money for both..

Messed up world.

[Timwheel]

I mean I think we are besides the point, but I'll go there with you.

It is my firm belief, based on everything I know (granted, I don't know much but I'm trying to fix that), there has never been a time where living is as great as today.

Anything below 1950s is war and abejct poverty. Sure, low taxes, but you'd have so little that it'd be the last of your problem. No healthcare system, you'd be lucky to live above your 50s, no job security, and if you were born poor, you'd be poor until your death, so not for long really.

Now, yeah you've got taxes, yes you always feel like you're paying too much for what you are getting, but damn is living confortable these days. We have access to insane technology for cheap (smartphones, PCs, 3D printers...  you can equip yourself for a month's worth of saving with basic versions of this stuff), food has never been that cheap (never in the history of the world food has taken so little % of available income), we have planes that go mach 0.9 for your average Joe costing 0.1% of what it cost in the early days of commercial aviation, you can learn absolutely anything for free on the internet, and now you can even work from home for most intellectual professions.

Of course taxe in not always well employed, of course some politicians are corrupted, of course everything is not perfect and will never be... But damn, did people have it rough before and how fast are we to complain about a 9 f*****g bucks worth of insurance for a crazy single wheel that can go highway speeds.

That's my 2 cents as an engineer in this modern world.

Edited April 11 by Timwheel

[Rawnei]

Things sure escalated quickly, economic system is not perfect and have a flaws but it's better than anything we had before like it or not, if we are going to argue about the 1% rich and how people are poor and struggle while some have 10 yachts and 3 palaces that is more a symptom of human greed than what system we currently use.

But all of this is pretty far from the intent of the topic to inform about new laws in Czech Republic.

[FF9F00]

2 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Not sure what you mean, it's you paying for that mirror.

And if you can't afford a little rear mirror, how are you going to afford the insurance?

[Rawnei]

5 minutes ago, FF9F00 said:

And if you can't afford a little rear mirror, how are you going to afford the insurance?

It's mind blowing how little sense this makes, at this point I have to wonder if you are just trolling?

[FF9F00]

3 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

It's mind blowing how little sense this makes, at this point I have to wonder if you are just trolling?

It's not a troll. If a car mirror is too expensive for you, maybe you shouldn't be riding on EUC.

[Rawnei]

Just now, FF9F00 said:

It's not a troll. If a car mirror is too expensive for you, maybe you shouldn't be riding on EUC.

Is this some kind of attempt at reverse psychology or what the hell are you on about? 😂🤣

[FF9F00]

3 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Is this some kind of attempt at reverse psychology or what the hell are you on about? 😂🤣

It was you who used the car rear mirror as a fright scenario. According to you: one might have to risk paying for an entire car rear mirror if one didn't have insurrance.
Well my point is, if you go bankrupt from the cost of a car mirror, maybe you shouldn't be riding on EUC.

Edited April 11 by FF9F00

[alcatraz]

4 hours ago, FF9F00 said:

Incorrect. I never stated this.

You said taxes pay for the costs. Which taxes are going to pay for your injury and the third party that got injured?

Many people that ride aren't paying taxes yet. Your taxes have to pay for their injuries, too.

In any case. Either you're a "motorcyclist" in a free country (arrange your own insurance, ride at your own risk) or where insurance is mandatory (no choice but to pay or ride illegally).

If we get bunched up with ebikes then we need to stick to those speed limits to have the same priviliges. Get caught speeding and you're riding a vehicle that's lacking insurance and registration yada yada.

[Cerbera]

When I flew big UAVs, back before the 'hurricane of piss' in over-regulation entirely ruined the hobby in order to make way for profit-hungry delivery drone companies with unrealistic ideas about feasibility and scalability that wanted our airspace, I had 12 million (voluntary) PLI to cover the cost of any conceivable level of chaos I could possibly cause with my 3 lb flyer, should it ever go mental or fall from the sky on someone's head, or their Bugatti Veyron !

I'd like a similar level of protection against my 75 lb 45 kph moving missile skipping on down the road causing whatever havoc that might do...

I'm still gonna wear the leash to prevent / mitigate the possibility, but I would like that insurance buffer there too; not to mention it shows a level of forethought and consideration to authorities which may soften their attitude towards you in the case of 'difficulty', certainly if it is a voluntary effort...

Alas, over here, insurance is simply not available for any activity that is not yet legal, so I remain rather envious of anywhere that offers it and legitimises the hobby / mode of transport. I derive some small hope though in that the more countries adopt such a forward-thinking attitude the more chance there might be that our own arcane, creaking cogs of bureaucracy may eventually learn from their example !

Edited April 11 by Cerbera

[FF9F00]

11 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

You said taxes pay for the costs.

6 hours ago, alcatraz said:

So you want government free health care.

These two sentences are not the same thing. The latter was something you invented in your head.
But you should probably take a look at Robse's post. It turns out I might have been wrong about who pays for injuries.