Serious question: Are we pushing our luck with these things?

[BKW]

As I'm starting to experience very strange behavior with some of my wheels, I really have to question the safety of these things more. In the last month or so my Sherman Max has decided to randomly shut off and start free spinning when I am trollying it around. The first time I chalked it up to an extreme fluke as by that point I nearly had 13K miles on it and never experience it before. The second time it happened today and now it got me concerned again.

I think we're all aware how dangerous these things can be. At any moment the gyroscope or something electronically can happen and it cuts out and we land face first on the cement. Even worse, something random happens to the battery and you have a firebomb on your hands! Also, these things come from China, and my very limited knowledge tells me that China is not as well regulated for these types of things as the USA might be, for example..

People have been riding these things far longer than I have, so I'm curious their take on this as well. But, EUCs might be one of the most dangerous PEVs I can think of just by the combination of being so powerful, fast, and all being held up by one wheel.

After these weird things that have been happening to me lately with these EUCs, I am really questioning if they are even worth it considering the safety hazards they pose? Can anyone relate? Thoughts?

Edited February 4 by BKW

[woke rider]

I totally get what you are saying and your concerns, especially since you have a few high speed wheels. Crashing at a high speed could really put you in the hospital. Low speed crashes aren't really that dangerous, unless your body is particularly fragile. I have had a lot of low speed crashes without serious injury. I crashed just this morning riding on extremely slick ice. And broke my pedal, again. But it's an easy fix and I was not injured. I mean, yes it's dangerous but not really unless you have a high speed crash. I don't think I have ever gone more than 21 miles per hour on my wheel, my fastest is probably close to 19mph, which is really fast when you think about it.

But you are riding on a whole different level if you are going 30-40mph, so heck yes you could get injured really bad, unless you take it easy. Practically everything is made in China, so that's not really a very big deal.

Edited February 5 by iwantmymtv
typo

[BKW]

13 minutes ago, iwantmymtv said:

I totally get what you are saying and your concerns, especially since you have a few high speed wheels. Crashing at a high speed could really put you in the hospital. Low speed crashes aren't really that dangerous, unless your body is particularly faragile. I have had a lot of low speed crashes without serious injury. I crashed just this morning riding on extremely slick ice. And broke my pedal, again. But it's an easy fix and I was not injured. I mean, yes it's dangerous but not really unless you have a high speed crash. I don't think I have ever gone more than 21 miles per hour on my wheel, my fastest is probably close to 19mph, which is really fast when you think about it.

But you are riding on a whole different level if you are going 30-40mph, so heck yes you could get injured really bad, unless you take it easy. Practically everything is made in China, so that's nor really a very big deal.

Honestly, even low speed cut outs freak me out. That's enough to break a wrist or something else. The only thing that brings me some peace of mind is that we tend not to hear of EUC malfunctions and crashes as much as we hear about HUMAN error and crashes, so this tells me that I can have some confidence left in these things. Right now I kind of use them heavily for work, but I might consider using something else if I didn't rely on them so much right now. I don't like the idea of being held up by a gyroscope anymore when I'm starting to witness some shady crap happen lately... and I've never really had to think about fires as much as I have with these things either...

[Punxatawneyjoe]

Yes, they are super dangerous and you can get wrecked at low speed also and that's why most people gear up in the event of a crash. I think after 13k miles and now exhibiting problems, yours is probably more dangerous than most. If it were me, i would completely disassemble the wheel and visually inspect everything. I feel like it's not a hardware issue but something loose,worn..etc 13k miles is a fair amount.

Edited February 4 by Punxatawneyjoe

[Cerbera]

I think all of us go through phases of being worried about the likelihood of our wheels cutting out under us, and unfortunately, this is not a balanced experience; ie it can take months and months to build up trust in a wheel, yet the slightest odd or new behaviour from it sends us almost back to the point of not trusting them at all, and perhaps rightly so ! Until today I was in an unusually long and rare period of perfect behaviour from my Master, but today inexplicably got a flat at the skate park, so back to the workbench we go. At least when tyres and stuff goes wonky you do at least know what has happened and what to do about it.

I'm a big fan of ATGATT which gives me a lot more confidence that I am likely to walk away from a cut-out relatively unhurt, and I have never had one on this wheel, which means confidence in it is high at the moment, not only by its previously flawless record in that department but because I regularly take it to bits to make sure I am aware of any wear and degrading going on. Not that you can see or notice everything of course... but there is some confidence that comes from knowing you checked and tightened everything yourself, and by paying close attention to any slight changes to feel, sound, or behaviour of the wheel in daily use.

Even if you do all that, it remains that cut-outs, or rider error still give rise to a certain constant low-level background worry, but I try not to dwell on it more than I let it remind me to stay alert and vigilant to oncoming problems.

In situations like OPs it's much more difficult, because it is intermittent, and we don't know where the problem is exactly. VERY hard to trust a wheel at all in that situation, so you have my maximum sympathy that you find yourself there

[BKW]

You guys raise a good point about inspecting everything on the EUC. I will do this very soon!

[onewheelkoregro]

4 hours ago, iwantmymtv said:

I totally get what you are saying and your concerns, especially since you have a few high speed wheels. Crashing at a high speed could really put you in the hospital. Low speed crashes aren't really that dangerous, unless your body is particularly faragile. I have had a lot of low speed crashes without serious injury. I crashed just this morning riding on extremely slick ice. And broke my pedal, again. But it's an easy fix and I was not injured. I mean, yes it's dangerous but not really unless you have a high speed crash. I don't think I have ever gone more than 21 miles per hour on my wheel, my fastest is probably close to 19mph, which is really fast when you think about it.

But you are riding on a whole different level if you are going 30-40mph, so heck yes you could get injured really bad, unless you take it easy. Practically everything is made in China, so that's nor really a very big deal.

I've crashed twice going about 35 mph. Above 40 is where the danger of broken bones is if you don't know how to fall. I'm surprised at the amount of people who have not practiced falling. It is an invaluable skill that has saved me from injury many times. I roll when I am going 35 or under, faster than that it is better to "pancake" and slide out the momentum

[Jkay]

8 hours ago, BKW said:

You guys raise a good point about inspecting everything on the EUC. I will do this very soon!

I agree a through inspection is in order, now what the hell am I looking for?  I changed the motherboard on my V12HT by lots of photos before and making the after look like the before photos, but as far as inspecting…..probably not! 

[Planemo]

10 hours ago, BKW said:

I am really questioning if they are even worth it considering the safety hazards they pose? Can anyone relate? Thoughts?

Yep, your feelings are the same as many other riders who have any clue about how these weird machines work.

The funny thing is, there are plenty of people who will argue till they are blue in the face that EUC's are as safe as bicycles etc. I've given up stating why they aren't!

Tbh, zero redundancy on an open vehicle at 40+mph is total madness when a failure will inevitably result in a crash. My family think I am nuts and I struggle to disagree with them. But I love EUC's and theres a part of me that simply thinks 'fcuk it, life is meant to be fun every now and then'. Thats what keeps me riding despite the unarguable risks. All I can do is gear up and fastidiously maintain my wheel. But you can't see inside a motherboard or any number of other things on an EUC that could fail at any moment..

And thats before taking into account the inherent instability and riding surface risk attached to any vehicle with one wheel.

As has been said before, if you go out every ride just worrying then it's not for you/me. If I get to that point I'll just sell up but for now I can manage my fears just enough to enjoy the rides and only generally think about failures when I'm actually not riding it.

[Frolic0415]

"In the last month or so my Sherman Max has decided to randomly shut off and start free spinning when I am trollying it around."

Any chance this is happening in a grocery store or around other stores?

[woke rider]

If you get badly injured or not depends a lot on how quick your reflexes are. If your reflexes aren't that fast, then you could face plant really easy on something that you could have walked/ran/jumped and twisted out of if your reflexes were quicker. Also, having air awareness is another important ability to save getting hurt. And riding slow, having a wheel that is still fun if its slower can save you serious injury. I know everyone seems to like to say "you can still get injured in a slow crash." But not really, not if you have quick reflexes like children do coupled with a good amount of air awareness. The more barriers that you put between you and your wheel, the less likely you will notice the subtle nuances that could save you. You have to be able to feel the tire moving over the asphalt so that you can react accordingly.

Here's a great video on how to develop air awareness:

 

Edited February 5 by iwantmymtv
added the video

[Bigkidneys]

I am new to the EUC world but not to crazy hobbies.  It also happens that I work in orthopedics and have for almost 30 years.  We use to say the cardinal sin for orthopedics is to own a trampoline.  Then it was motorcycles and I am sure now EUCs.  The people I work with think I am crazy for doing it but when they see me playing around on it during lunch they think it's pretty cool.  I have no mechanical background whatsoever, so pulling one apart is not something I look forward to lol.  

  Pretty sure my first low speed wreck, I got a very bad high ankle sprain and can still feel the effects of it after 3 months.  Regardless, the "Freedom" I get from riding one is one of the best feelings I have experienced and have to say I am hooked now!  The fact that I am trusting something to balance itself on one wheel with speeds up to 50mph and not knowing how it really works is definitely foolish of me.  I have all the gear and do wear it but fortunately haven't had any more major crashes.  It's almost like roulette I guess.  

[Aztek]

Yes, it is totally insane to ride these over, well, 35 or so km/h.

Considering what they are and where and by whom are made... Insane, no doubt. I've seen enough Chinese quality of materials and craftsmanship. Hell, when a 15000 euro medical machine can fall apart by having plastic parts degrade by themselves in a period of only six months... What to say/think about EUCs?

I continue riding however. Gear up and go no faster than 40 km/h. Do not ride with the cars, as falling suddenly Infront of a vehicle is never fun.

[Funky]

Yes it's dangerous. 

People who say it otherwise are simply blissfully ignorant.

And still i'm riding and most of my rides are without gear. In heavy snow or in heavy rain storms - i ride - it's my commuter..

[Leionar27]

You must put all of that in perspective guys , Euc is a hobby that had existed since 10 years , how many deaths until now ?

 

I mean the probability that ur Euc fail right in front of a car is pretty low , statistics speak for themselves

Edited February 9 by Leionar27

[Ronin Ryder]

On 2/4/2024 at 11:48 AM, BKW said:

As I'm starting to experience very strange behavior with some of my wheels, I really have to question the safety of these things more. In the last month or so my Sherman Max has decided to randomly shut off and start free spinning when I am trollying it around. The first time I chalked it up to an extreme fluke as by that point I nearly had 13K miles on it and never experience it before. The second time it happened today and now it got me concerned again.

I think we're all aware how dangerous these things can be. At any moment the gyroscope or something electronically can happen and it cuts out and we land face first on the cement. Even worse, something random happens to the battery and you have a firebomb on your hands! Also, these things come from China, and my very limited knowledge tells me that China is not as well regulated for these types of things as the USA might be, for example..

People have been riding these things far longer than I have, so I'm curious their take on this as well. But, EUCs might be one of the most dangerous PEVs I can think of just by the combination of being so powerful, fast, and all being held up by one wheel.

After these weird things that have been happening to me lately with these EUCs, I am really questioning if they are even worth it considering the safety hazards they pose? Can anyone relate? Thoughts?

Classic sherman and Sherman bug "feature". Happens when u pass security paths or in shops. 

Edited February 9 by Ronin Ryder

[Mono]

15 hours ago, Leionar27 said:

how many deaths until now ?

At the minimum six, but I would not be too surprise if the actual number is considerably higher.

15 hours ago, Leionar27 said:

I mean the probability that ur Euc fail right in front of a car is pretty low , statistics speak for themselves

I agree. And from the data I have seen I can not conclude that riding an EUC is as dangerous as riding a motorcycle.

 

Edited February 10 by Mono

[Planemo]

And I think focusing on deaths isn't an ideal statistic. Open it up to 'injuries' and the bar graph heads skywards somewhat.

[Mono]

50 minutes ago, Planemo said:

And I think focusing on deaths isn't an ideal statistic.

To all I can see, death is the best statistic we have, mainly for two reasons: (1) it is inarguably relevant and (2) it is comparatively well defined and easy to measure. Having said that, I'd consider my first attempt for a risk assessment of riding an EUC as somewhat a failure.

I'd like to know the number of days not ridden due to (EUC related) injury relative to the number of days ridden (for me it would be about 0:2000, for Marty it would be about 60:2000), but then, we still could not quite compare the risk with other activities.

As usual, I'd be delighted if you can show me that I am mistaken.

50 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Open it up to 'injuries' and the bar graph heads skywards somewhat.

Quite possible, but without a proper measurement it remains to be an hypothesis.

Edited February 10 by Mono

[Funky]

42 minutes ago, Mono said:

I agree. And from the data I have seen I can not conclude that riding an EUC is as dangerous as riding a motorcycle.

Doh if motorcycle suddenly stops working.. Like engine dying, getting a flat, or something.. You won't crash. Can't speak the same about EUC's.

Even getting flat on EUC - where air leaves tire very quickly can make you crash..

It's more dangerous - if we look from this viewpoint. 

[Mono]

17 minutes ago, Funky said:

Doh if motorcycle suddenly stops working.. Like engine dyeing, or something.. You won't crash. Can't speak the same about EUC's.

Obviously we are all aware of that.

13 minutes ago, Funky said:

It's more dangerous - if we look from this viewpoint. 

What seems to enjoy less awareness is that possibility and probability are not the same and only the latter counts in real life.

Whether an event is possible is entirely irrelevant for its risk assessment. A fun fact from probability theory: possible events can have probability zero. Even if they could not, their probability can still be 10^-99.

Edited February 10 by Mono

[Funky]

Two wheels are safer than one. Cars having four of them are even safer. 18-wheelers are almost like a tank. And tank is the safest as it has metal tracks.  

In my book possibility and probability is the same. Because EUC will stop working one day. And crashing is inevitable.

Edited February 10 by Funky

[Mono]

On 2/4/2024 at 5:48 PM, BKW said:

After these weird things that have been happening to me lately with these EUCs, I am really questioning if they are even worth it considering the safety hazards they pose? Can anyone relate? Thoughts?

You can amend your personal risk by probably one or two orders of magnitude or more when you

1. adapt your speed and riding style to the environment and to the skills you have
2. train specific skills that are relevant to safety
3. maintain your EUC properly and use an (almost) failsafe tire

ordered by my estimation of the effect size. More thoughts I collected some time ago in this thread, and it still seems mainly valid (I can't edit it anymore)

 

Edited February 11 by Mono

[Mono]

27 minutes ago, Funky said:

In my book possibility and probability is the same.

Seems like high time to change the book if you are interested in that this book reflects the real world.

In reality, you do make this distinction, you just seem to prefer not doing it here: it is well possible that you die in a train or airplane crash, but you don't go arguing in a forum how dangerous trains or airplanes are, and you don't because these events, tough possible, are improbable.

Edited February 10 by Mono

[Funky]

6 minutes ago, Mono said:

Seems like high time to change the book if you are interested in that this book reflects the real world.

Then again English isn't my native language.. And i don't use it at all in real life. But still possibility of crashing on euc - It isn't a possibility. It's probability. 

But in EUC case it's both. Because crashing is a possibility and same time probability. And end of the day a fact.  As everyone have crashed at least once.

 

Anyways..

Spoiler

How are you liking your light last-mile play-and-errand wheels? Thought this post could use some derailing about now..  (Joking..)