Upgrading Kingsong s22 motor to 4000w - MAN ITŚ GOOD (DIY-PRO)

[Rawnei]

7 hours ago, novazeus said:

all done. tmrw will be the real test to see if i can discern 4000watts from 3300watts.

Don't get hung up on watt ratings, they are kinda meaningless, the new motor has wider magnets making it significantly stronger, perhaps different windings also (I don't know).

[novazeus]

4 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Don't get hung up on watt ratings, they are kinda meaningless, the new motor has wider magnets making it significantly stronger, perhaps different windings also (I don't know).

it was dark before i got it back together, so i didn't ride it much, but i did notice one dramatic difference. i was expecting with me removing the knobby and running the michelin hard, i'd go too fast and have difficulty stopping. but i couldn't understand why all of a sudden, this s22 with it's forward pedals, that normally takes concentrated effort to stop, is stopping effortlessly now. then it dawned on me, more braking power.

[Rawnei]

59 minutes ago, novazeus said:

it was dark before i got it back together, so i didn't ride it much, but i did notice one dramatic difference. i was expecting with me removing the knobby and running the michelin hard, i'd go too fast and have difficulty stopping. but i couldn't understand why all of a sudden, this s22 with it's forward pedals, that normally takes concentrated effort to stop, is stopping effortlessly now. then it dawned on me, more braking power.

Your braking is just as strong as your leaning, unless you are overpowering the wheel.

[techyiam]

18 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Your braking is just as strong as your leaning, unless you are overpowering the wheel.

On my S22, now with firmware v2.35, I thought I would try another ride mode to see whether there are more unexpected changes.

On the S22, there are three pedal modes, (called "ride mode" in the app):

(1) Hard: this is called "Experiment Mode" in the app.

(2) Medium: "Ride Mode"

(3) Soft: "Beginner Mode"

I am currently on hard. And I decided to switch to Medium.

For exactly the same braking effort, style, setup, I was having problem stopping. I switched back to the "hard mode", and I was good again. The difference was significant.

 

Ditto with the V12. Depending on pedal settings, the ease of acceleration and braking can be altered in a significant way.

[Rawnei]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

On my S22, now with firmware v2.35, I thought I would try another ride mode to see whether there are more unexpected changes.

On the S22, there are three pedal modes, (called "ride mode" in the app):

(1) Hard: this is called "Experiment Mode" in the app.

(2) Medium: "Ride Mode"

(3) Soft: "Beginner Mode"

I am currently on hard. And I decided to switch to Medium.

For exactly the same braking effort, style, setup, I was having problem stopping. I switched back to the "hard mode", and I was good again. The difference was significant.

 

Ditto with the V12. Depending on pedal settings, the ease of acceleration and braking can be altered in a significant way.

What happens is that the wheel is giving you a different response via the pedals which you are less comfortable with making you lean less.

[techyiam]

1 minute ago, Rawnei said:

What happens is that the wheel is giving you a different response via the pedals which you are less comfortable with making you lean less.

In emergency braking, that is the difference between ending up in the hospital or morgue, and walking away.

Maybe for a heavier rider, he may have more options.

For lighter riders, ease of acceleration and braking is very helpful, and more safe.

You are assuming that for riders of different weights, they can all accelerate and brake to the same maximum degree. But this is not true. Given enough torque is available, the heavier rider and reach a higher level.

On top of that, in real world riding in traffic, over extending oneself can expose the rider to more unnecessary risks.

[Rawnei]

16 minutes ago, techyiam said:

In emergency braking, that is the difference between ending up in the hospital or morgue, and walking away.

Maybe for a heavier rider, he may have more options.

For lighter riders, ease of acceleration and braking is very helpful, and more safe.

You are assuming that for riders of different weights, they can all accelerate and brake to the same maximum degree. But this is not true. Given enough torque is available, the heavier rider and reach a higher level.

On top of that, in real world riding in traffic, over extending oneself can expose the rider to more unnecessary risks.

Not sure what you are talking about here, seems like you are mixing a lot of things together, acceleration and braking is still just a result of the rider leaning, I will create a new topic about this since it comes up so often.

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Not sure what you are talking about here, seems like you are mixing a lot of things together, acceleration and braking is still just a result of the rider leaning, I will create a new topic about this since it comes up so often.

Nope. I think you may have missed a memo. You are missing the "power steering" vs "manual steering" factor.

[Rawnei]

7 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Nope. I think you may have missed a memo. You are missing the "power steering" vs "manual steering" factor.

I have created a new topic here where you can post your thoughts about the subject:

 

[Crab]

So if you get off the s22 and jump on the ex30 both In medium mode...holy shit! Took me maybe 10 miles to get comfortable with the pedal dip, now I like it.

[ikeceosaor]

I've been trying to decide between the S19 and a 16" Begode wheel for agricultural lands. Here's a video of typical terrain I ride through. It probably has larger mounds to crawl over than a pasture but also is less difficult to launch in compared to deep livestock hoofprints.

I don't weigh very much so you can see the s18 is mostly able to propel me through but I definitely want more power so I don't have to pick my lines as carefully. Which is why I'm looking at the s19 and the Commander Mini. I'm mostly wondering if the larger diameter wheel and plusher suspension of Kingsong would be more advantageous than a 16" Begode with more torque in this terrain. I also think the s19 might have higher pedal clearance.

[novazeus]

22 minutes ago, ikeceosaor said:

I've been trying to decide between the S19 and a 16" Begode wheel for agricultural lands. Here's a video of typical terrain I ride through. It probably has larger mounds to crawl over than a pasture but also is less difficult to launch in compared to deep livestock hoofprints.

I don't weigh very much so you can see the s18 is mostly able to propel me through but I definitely want more power so I don't have to pick my lines as carefully. Which is why I'm looking at the s19 and the Commander Mini. I'm mostly wondering if the larger diameter wheel and plusher suspension of Kingsong would be more advantageous than a 16" Begode with more torque in this terrain. I also think the s19 might have higher pedal clearance.

in the s19 price range, and i have no idea what it's like, but i'm considering getting a bonafide pro possibly. i've done business with amg studio and they are fine folks.

easy to work on. 

https://studio-amg.com/products/king-song-s22-pro-1-776wh-battery-4-000w-motor

[novazeus]

On 11/30/2023 at 3:30 AM, Rawnei said:

"Unfortunately" this is the Gen3 motor not the Gen4, you can tell by the "HH", Gen4 has GF.

Main changes:

On Gen4 Axle is made of steel instead of aluminum, it won't rub against the oil seal

On Gen4 the oil seal is hidden behind the cover instead of being exposed, lower risk of water intrusion.

Power delivery is the same.

if i wanted to buy a s22 pro with the gf motor, how would the dealer know without opening the box and looking at the motor? is there a date? amg studio has the molicel s22 pro. does it have the gf motor?

so my diy s22 pro compared to lynx is:

75 pounds 4 ounces to 88 pounds, s22 wins by 12 pounds 8 oz

4000 watt motor to 3200 watt motor, s22 wins by 800 watts

battery 2220wh 126v 2700wh at 151v, lynx wins on voltage and wh

the s22 pro can probably be bought for $2500 delivered new. 

does the 151v configuration cost or worth $1700 more? just asking, idk. 

i'm pretty damn happy with my diy pro and now that i've dropped the motor a couple of times(haha, once because after putting it all back together, i noticed a ball bearing wheel on the ground. the king song sliders replacement didn't come with any type of retaining device, and so i tried it without a drop of blue loctite the first time, 2nd time i put a dab on, technically, the inner race sb loctited to the shaft but in this low tech application, it doesn't matter. and then after putting it back together, i noticed a squeak. i overtighten the center srew of the flimsy fender/wire chase holder so i cable tied it and one of the ratchet things needed to be pushed in towards the wheel)

so yeah, pulling the top off is so easy, i want to buy another one especially now seeing how great it is with proper suspension and the bigger motor, and the pedals lowered and forward and the michelin tire. might be fun to have the molicel version with the gf motor to compare side by side. 

my diy s22 pro

this is the tire profile i desire on all my wheels, on road or pasture. michelin pilot street 2. completely round and completely symetrical. which on a device u balance, that is important.

Edited December 7, 2023 by novazeus

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, novazeus said:

if i wanted to buy a s22 pro with the gf motor, how would the dealer know without opening the box and looking at the motor? is there a date? amg studio has the molicel s22 pro. does it have the gf motor?

They would have to check the text stamped on the motor.

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, novazeus said:

if i wanted to buy a s22 pro with the gf motor, how would the dealer know without opening the box and looking at the motor?

 

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

They would have to check the text stamped on the motor.

[novazeus]

5 hours ago, Rawnei said:

They would have to check the text stamped on the motor.

so there's no date they started using the gf motors?

and to make it more confusing, there's a vendor in eu offering pros with 50s batteries, which i suppose are better. so many variations.

[Rawnei]

2 minutes ago, novazeus said:

so there's no date they started using the gf motors?

and to make it more confusing, there's a vendor in eu offering pros with 50s batteries, which i suppose are better. so many variations.

Really? Who sells S22 with 50s?

[novazeus]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

Really? Who sells S22 with 50s?

sorry, aus. s22pro plus. i think i'd like one, or a pro plus plus.

it's only $2625 dollars usd.

and next question, is 50s that much better than 40t?

according to battery mooch, the 50s runs hotter than the molicel 42t and only performs slightly better.

idk, i don't need range, i need safety. sounds like the 40t in florida's heat would be best. 

u know, if i had nice type III asphalt paths built here on the ranch, i could do proper surveillance on a 9bs1 just fine. much better than walking 4 miles.(maybe after closing in a year or so)

and there isn't a vehicle made, other than a real sherman tank, that can get around here without doing some trail building. even then pastures have deathtraps. 

so i've decided the best workaround for now, is blaze some trails with my tractor and rototiller, and i'm in the process of buying a thousand pound lawn roller i can pull with my new bad boy mower, and hopefully make some nice point to point observation lookouts locations. other than package retrieval a half mile away, this is why i need wheels. 

my last nemesis will be the wind whipping across my pastures.

https://e-riderz.com.au/product/king-song-s22-pro-electric-unicycle/

Edited December 7, 2023 by novazeus

[Crab]

12 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Really? Who sells S22 with 50s?

It was announced recently, 50s is coming.

[novazeus]

where did u see it announced? 

some of these vendors are clueless to what battery is in their s22 pros or know what motor they have. 

guess i'll have to wait until these dealers figure out that battery type and motor type is important to wheel buyers. 

i actually have 5 excellent wheels now. even the s18 made it up my hill today with no problem. i guess i got lucky with my s18 because the only thing wrong or bait and switch, was the pos jiluer tire and now that it's horrible profile and tread has been worn down, not too bad on pavement. pasture or dirt doesn't care if the tire sucks. 

only problem i have with the s18, is it's 31mph top speed and i roll between 25-30mph on pavement, and i'm afraid i'll forget which wheel i'm on and overlean.

i'd like another or i should say, a factory s22 pro. guess that's a waiting game too.

Edited December 8, 2023 by novazeus

[Rawnei]

4 hours ago, Crab said:

It was announced recently, 50s is coming.

I second that, where did you see that announcment?

[techyiam]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/6758364474261458/

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

I second that, where did you see that announcment?

 

[Rawnei]

36 minutes ago, techyiam said:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/6758364474261458/

 

I see, thanks, I wonder if they made any software adjustments to accommodate the high discharge cells.

[Crab]

6 hours ago, Rawnei said:

I see, thanks, I wonder if they made any software adjustments to accommodate the high discharge cells.

Doubtful, we already have the 40t high discharge cells, 50s just adds more capacity.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Crab

[Crab]

13 hours ago, novazeus said:

where did u see it announced? 

some of these vendors are clueless to what battery is in their s22 pros or know what motor they have. 

guess i'll have to wait until these dealers figure out that battery type and motor type is important to wheel buyers. 

i actually have 5 excellent wheels now. even the s18 made it up my hill today with no problem. i guess i got lucky with my s18 because the only thing wrong or bait and switch, was the pos jiluer tire and now that it's horrible profile and tread has been worn down, not too bad on pavement. pasture or dirt doesn't care if the tire sucks. 

only problem i have with the s18, is it's 31mph top speed and i roll between 25-30mph on pavement, and i'm afraid i'll forget which wheel i'm on and overlean.

i'd like another or i should say, a factory s22 pro. guess that's a waiting game too.

Yea be carefully on that one, great wheel at lower speeds.