Split from: "Inmotion Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion" (and closed due to dumpster fire tier quality)

[skunkmonkey]

35 minutes ago, Unventor said:

I think it is impressive how fast people moan about bad English and people from other regions when all they (as in general) can speak English. 

This is so true, and honestly many of us don't even speak English all that well . Spanish seems to be an almost unofficial second language here, but that's mostly due to unchecked illegal immigration.

35 minutes ago, Unventor said:

Now if Americans are so great to build things then I really have a hard time understanding why we  globally rely so much on items made in Asia. Unless it comes down to cost

This is 100% the reason. It's sad really because not only does it take away quality control, but it also reduces our countries exports, and reduces jobs. Made in America used to mean quality, but ever since planned obsolescence became a thing, nobody in the right mind would want to own an American vehicle. You'd think the auto manufacturers would figure out that people want quality, and won't buy a vehicle that's designed to die an early death while requiring lots of maintenance, but nope, they don't learn, so the American auto industry is in shambles.

Edited November 11, 2023 by skunkmonkey

[0000]

Just now, Unventor said:

Now if Americans are so great to build things then I really have a hard time understanding why we  globally rely so much on items made in Asia. Unless it comes down to cost and that is the other part people seem to forget when they moan about quality. 

Less good at building things after decades of "free" trade, and more so better at design, at least for the time being until those opportunities dry up as well in the high COL west. Speaking of, hey didn't we have a massive, totally organic remote work push to accelerate the trend of outsourcing design work?

So along with the loss of jobs and the associated opportunities for real innovation (and not the nebulous/ephemeral meaningless innovation soulless corporate suits speak of) that @skunkmonkey described, "we" remain better at safety and quality related design work partially because of the hyper litigious/legal compliance environment we live in. I think these opportunities too though will also eventually go the way of the dodo as the top-down corporate management/organization of western societies continue to prefer to pit increasingly high COL labor (amidst increasing inflation) against essentially low COL labor (what we'd call slave labor wages) with no thought (or possibly every thought for the skeptical thinkers) for the long term consequences of such arbitrage.

Not only has labor and the future opportunities it affords in the west been essentially priced out (ex: China now produces 54% of the world's steel which used to be America's bread and butter), but trends in "green" energy production ensure that domestic production will never return at any meaningful scale particularly as China and the east double down on the cheapest baseload energy like coal power plants further solidifying their cost-competitive advantage.

How this relates to EUCs is not only will they never be manufactured nor probably even designed here (liability), but we'll just have to continue to account for the deficient QA that comes along with Asian cultural differences and the mistakes associated with essentially factory line-workers working for peanuts. That is, at least until China abruptly switches back to Gold/commodity based money finally giving the middle-finger to the west's worldwide fiat enslavement scam. Then, it'll be good luck to us trading worthless debt rectangles for real/valuable finished goods like EUCs. I'm sure we'll have bigger problems by *then though.

/rant

Edited November 11, 2023 by Vanturion
*we already do, but who's (ac)counting..

[Uras]

17 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Not only has labor and the future opportunities it affords in the west been essentially priced out (ex: China now produces 54% of the world's steel which used to be America's bread and butter), but trends in "green" energy production ensure that domestic production will never return at any meaningful scale particularly as China and the east double down on the cheapest baseload energy like coal power plants further solidifying their cost-competitive advantage.

I'm not a fan of china for many reasons. However, they are way ahead of US, Australia and Europe (easily) in the push for green energy. They've also gone full tilt at electric vehicle technology, and have done for quite a while. It is a pity that a lot of what they build is sub par due to trying to maximise profit - a fault of the way their government subsidises such things, and that in turn is a waste of energy if those things (cars, buildings etc) don't get used. That doesn't take away from their drive for good environmental change though. A more obvious criticism of china's technological growth in product and manufacturing would be their theft of design and research, especially from silicon valley. In this respect they are parasitic, feeding of the R&D of other countries

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/29/china-wind-solar-power-global-renewable-energy-leader

Edited November 11, 2023 by Uras

[0000]

Off-topic:

I mean, I can agree with much of what you said, especially how central planning leads to waste (overproduction). But that guardian article is pretty funny. Similarly, I don't think "good environmental change" is actual reason that fiat is printed and literally thrown at various companies (and company insiders) to subsidize their "green transition" whether we're talking about governments in the west or the east.

A couple choice quotes near the end of the article:

Quote

The way China’s grid is organised can incentivise building coal plants around renewable generators. Much of the new renewable capacity is not connected to the local energy supply and often bundled with coal power to be transmitted to areas of higher demand.

More coal power was approved in the first three months of 2023 than in the whole of 2021.

So what part of the green transition does bundling evil dirty nasty coal power come in? I think that admission alone is pretty telling. Do you know how much power manufacturing operations like smelting iron, aluminum recycling, metal extrusions, and other heavy industry operations requires? It's a lot. And not just a lot, but considering these industries support critical business operations that have to meet contracts and schedules, it'd be pretty foolish to pretend that the intermittent supply of sun-shine vs cloud-cover & weather patterns for wind could support the baseload energy requirements of industrial manufacturing in general. But when it comes to politics in the 21st century, belief triumphs over reality.

So basically we have a situation, probably similar to what you described above with EVs subsidies and overproduction waste, in which China can easily pretend they're not just meeting their 2060 "green" energy targets, but beating them by showing off fields of excess panels they made to squeeze out and bankrupt international panel manufacturing ensuring market dominance, creating a kind of illusion (limited energy production applicability) for which brain-dead "scientific"  journalists propagandists can laud their "incredible progress." This while simultaneously laughing as their international competitors innovate their way into structural competitive disadvantage. Specifically, building energy infrastructure to supply unreliable baseload power in the west means that any real manufacturing never returns here.

Quote

“China is making strides,” said Martin Weil, a researcher at Global Energy Monitor and an author over-paid climate priest of the report. “But with coal still holding sway as the dominant power source, the country needs bolder advancements in energy storage and green technologies for a secure energy future.”

Here's the thing - I don't even know if I buy that China is actually independent and sovereign vs their political class taking orders from international bankers like the rest of us in the west. If they are actually sovereign, the reaction this Martin Weil propagandist has here is exactly the effect I'd be going for by pretending green compliance while in reality building the real energy and production infrastructure to ensure China's trade and inevitable military dominance as the west continues to be mismanaged into decline. From the competitor perspective, the IP theft you rightly called out has been another fantastically executed strategy to build up their economy at the direct expense of our own. But I'm probably talking past you here a bit with the admittedly amateur and speculative geopolitical analysis.

In any case, the story of the green energy transition is yet another story of central planning that is not likely to play out well unless you count yourself a member of the ruling elite IMO or can profit from working for one of these tax-payer subsidized "green" companies (I call it getting closer to the money printer). Even with the top-down push for pure EVs (tax rebates), especially for people who can only afford one car, drivers would be much better served in a reliable hybrid EV for their daily needs considering the average miles driven, that is if real conservation of resources with respect to existing infrastructure was the actual goal at hand.

you just have to laugh - one last quote from one of the linked sources:

Quote

Solar power generation will soon become the most economical form of electricity in China, surpassing hydropower to become the largest non-fossil energy source by the end of this year, Shanghai event hears

Yeah, I mean when all countries of note are furiously engaging in rampant borrowing, subsidies, and central planning, determining the most economical form of anything is crystal clear, right? Clown world.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Vanturion

[DavidB]

Boy, these last few comments are getting really off topic.

[Forwardnbak]

1 hour ago, DavidB said:

Boy, these last few comments are getting really off topic.

it's an adventure... 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Forwardnbak

[UPONIT]

On 11/9/2023 at 6:40 PM, Uras said:

in the english language, mentioning a left suggests that there is a right, pretty much all the time.

Wait... Do Australians speak English? Since when?

11 hours ago, skunkmonkey said:

This is so true, and honestly many of us don't even speak English all that well . Spanish seems to be an almost unofficial second language here, but that's mostly due to unchecked illegal immigration.

This is 100% the reason. It's sad really because not only does it take away quality control, but it also reduces our countries exports, and reduces jobs. Made in America used to mean quality, but ever since planned obsolescence became a thing, nobody in the right mind would want to own an American vehicle. You'd think the auto manufacturers would figure out that people want quality, and won't buy a vehicle that's designed to die an early death while requiring lots of maintenance, but nope, they don't learn, so the American auto industry is in shambles.

Hang on just a minute. Fact check time...

1.  Spanish being spoken in America has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Not going into it here. Ask any linguist.

1A. Spanish isn't forced on anyone. Neither was German, Dutch, French, Italian or any other language that some Americans have bitched about so loudly throughout history. Those languages contributed greatly to English, giving it depth, richness, complexity, and innumerable loan words and hybrids.

1B. Why it bothers some people so much to hear other languages being spoken has a simple explanation... it starts with "xeno" and ends with "phobia." It isn't exclusively an American weakness, but it definitely thrives here.

2. Almost EVERY brand of car IS made right here in America. Mercs, Beemers, Toyotas, Kias, Hondas, Hyundais, those ugly Scions and nut-job idolizing Teslas... all of 'em. The vehicles we drive are made in America. (Or North America, in some cases.)

2A. The best selling vehicle in America for the last 1,000 years has been the FORD F150. So i guess there are a lot of people not in their right minds buying an American brand...

3. Outsourcing didn't kill American manufacturing. Automation did.

3A. Did you know that America's manufacturing sector is currently larger than it has been at any time since (IIRC, cause I ain't stopping to look it up) the 1970s? But it hasn't resulted in a huge number of new jobs because of... AUTOMATION. Robots made it cheap enough to start bringing manufacturing back on-shore. 

Moral of the story: Don't hate foreigners. Hate robots.

Creeping back onto the topic at hand: Adventure adventure InMotion Hall sensor knobby offroad V14 street raptor.

[skunkmonkey]

20 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Even with the top-down push for pure EVs (tax rebates), especially for people who can only afford one car, drivers would be much better served in a reliable hybrid EV for their daily needs considering the average miles driven

Truer words have never been spoken. My wife and I ditched our second car with COVID and got a couple of electric scooters that we use as our primary vehicles. We have saved so much money it's insane. We only use the car for long distance trips, and grocery shopping, or for bad weather days. I just take an Uber if my wife needs the car on a bad weather day at the same time as I do. We still end up miles ahead financially.

I think the Adventure may be my next wheel. I'd like something easy to maintain, waterproof, and a little more nimble than my V11. The Adventure looks pretty good, as long as it is reliable.

Edited November 12, 2023 by skunkmonkey

[skunkmonkey]

10 hours ago, UPONIT said:

1.  Spanish being spoken in America has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Not going into it here. Ask any linguist.

1A. Spanish isn't forced on anyone. Neither was German, Dutch, French, Italian or any other language that some Americans have bitched about so loudly throughout history. Those languages contributed greatly to English, giving it depth, richness, complexity, and innumerable loan words and hybrids.

Sorry, I can see how my comment could have been seen as racist, and if anyone took it that way I deeply apologize. I only meant that the emergence of Spanish as an almost second unofficial language didn't have much to do with the American school system educating our citizens to be bi-lingual, but was rather brought about by a growing presence of Hispanics in our country. America has always been pretty bad at encouraging bi-lingual or tri-lingual education as is done in so many other countries.
The reason that I mentioned illegal immigration specifically is because the legal immigration path requires that immigrants speak English. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, but that's why I mentioned illegal immigration specifically:
https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-e-chapter-2#:~:text=In all cases%2C the applicant,qualifies for a medical waiver.

This is way off topic, I know. I just didn't want to leave people possibly offended since that wasn't my intent.

Edited November 11, 2023 by skunkmonkey

[0000]

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Creeping back onto the topic at hand:

Going to drag this back into the pit for a minute because you've said some pretty outrageous things I'd rather not remain unchallenged. Mods can split this discussion to the off-topic hole whenever anyway.

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

1.  Spanish being spoken in America has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Not going into it here. Ask any linguist.

So if I were to ask any linguist on the planet, 100% of them would have some other reason for why Spanish is increasingly being spoken in the United States other than millions per year of inbound illegal immigrants, primarily from Spanish-speaking Latin American countries crossing our border (being regularly assisted through international NGOs on how to claim asylum and abuse our permanently backlogged immigration courts to the tune of tens of thousands per day and new weekly videos of caravans of migrants walking around the border fences and crossing shallow rivers) in record numbers today, but the same incessant immigration pattern for decades - they would agree that all of the aforementioned has nothing to do with Spanish increasingly being spoken in America?

Do you work for the US State department by chance or are you just that bad at addition?

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

1A. Spanish isn't forced on anyone.

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for Dutch.. no 2 for German?.. that's not right.. oh yeah, 2 for Spanish. Para Espanol blah blah blah, can you hear it in your mind even now? It is forced upon us, or at least thrust if forced isn't exactly the right word at just about every customer service interaction or government service nowadays. Do I like it? No. Do I prefer it? No. Am I xenophobic (fearing) of the Spanish speaking? I mean generally not unless I see someone with a bunch of gang tattoos.

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

1B. Why it bothers some people so much to hear other languages being spoken has a simple explanation... it starts with "xeno" and ends with "phobia." It isn't exclusively an American weakness, but it definitely thrives here.

Xenophobia is just another stupid label the managerial class has methodically installed in the minds of masses through mass media to demonize in-group preference amongst ethnically European people. I say ethnically European people specifically--because how often do you see this label incessantly thrown at Latinos, Indians, or Black Americans for expressing a preference for their own race? No, it only goes one way here.

Also, you're not well traveled if you think in-group preference or it's far more extreme/anti-social expression, actual racism, is more prevalent here than many other ethnically homogeneous countries. But this is just one aspect and not even the important one of what you're contending with.

Frankly, it's such an utterly braindead take to strawman the personal preference to not want to be taxed to pay for the services of people who not only don't speak your native language, but are massively dependent upon tax-payer funded services to survive which will ultimately require your labor to support as "racism" or "xenophobia".

As a man, why in the name of god almighty would I want to pay for an endless supply of adult children and actual children who themselves require absurd amounts of support in taxes, food, housing, medical services, etc. which ultimately means the support of our labor and time who are then not only going to be in competition for the limited jobs, but simultaneously drive down wages because the labor supply is not immune to the basic economics of supply and demand (all of this in the era of automation and AI too).

Maybe, just maybe, I'd like to afford my own family rather than be forced to pay for Juan Julio's at the point of a gun which is what we are currently forced to do regardless of what shitbird red or blue political pawn is currently running their lying mouth on the idiot box we call tell-lie-vision. Xenophobia my ass.

8 hours ago, UPONIT said:

3. Outsourcing didn't kill American manufacturing. Automation did.

OK, you clearly aren't living in reality here and have your narratives screwed up.

Automation literally did and does the opposite of killing American manufacturing as it replaces labor negating the expense of domestic labor and allows manufacturing to compete with often exploited or slave labor overseas (by displacing and replacing jobs). Because of the advances technology afforded production efficiency, more manufacturing could remain competitive in our high COL labor markets as domestic labor was forced to compete with overseas cheap labor due to globalization and trade policies.

Automation didn't kill American manufacturing, it simply slowed down the off-shoring trend when the metaphorical floodgates were opened - the actual culprit was globalization, more specifically, decades of the American political class doing the bidding of international merchants and bankers creating trade policy that pitted highly regulated domestic labor against unregulated overseas slave labor.

8 hours ago, UPONIT said:

Robots made it cheap enough to start bringing manufacturing back on-shore. 

So it looks like you kind of get it, but I don't know why you think that's a thing to celebrate all that much. Unless you yourself own the productive assets, or a piece of it yourself, the wealth generated from automation isn't getting spread amongst the population too broadly. Automation and robotic production tends to funnel wealth upwards rather than outwards (exacerbating wealth inequality), which I'm sure you noticed is kind of a problem lately, especially with all the unskilled labor continuing to flood across the border.

Furthermore, I think this narrative that production and jobs are flooding back here is totally false with some serious caveats too. Have you noticed how many bribes and tax advantaged incentives cities try to offer companies just to install their factory or headquarters on their home turf. This blatant misuse of tax-payer funds, socialized risk-->privatized profits has become commonplace amongst American business.

It's the absolutely perverse and dystopian reality that is chucked aside and ignored in favor of uncritical political sound bites advocating how such and such politician brought x-number of jobs to their city/state while lying through omission as to how much of the tax-payer's money (future labor) they misused to bribe said company for those jobs. Then everyone complains how the same companies don't pay taxes. What a world right?

Furthermore, I think the production that is moving from China lately isn't much ending up in America but rather Vietnam, Thailand, India, etc. I could find some supporting links, but I don't think anyone much cares at this point.

Few people seem to care about the details of just about anything and would rather parrot nice-sounding lies all the way to the grave.

[Ro.man]

Guys relax, if Inmotion (or any other company) decides to manufacture EUCs in the US, it will be easily 10K wheel and will still have problems. I had enough problems with high-end products and parts made in USA to say that it doesn't matter that much. 

[Forwardnbak]

My brand new BMW  S1000rr M sport had faulty suspension for a year, a known problem with banging on a 35k bike.

Took a year to get them swapped after many dealings with bad service from BMW Australia . Others had the same issue. 

I thought I was buying prestige but had better luck with my used Japanese bikes.  

Price or place of make isn't guarantee of quality either 

[UPONIT]

6 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Going to drag this back into the pit for a minute because you've said some pretty outrageous things I'd rather not remain unchallenged. Mods can split this discussion to the off-topic hole whenever anyway.

So if I were to ask any linguist on the planet, 100% of them would have some other reason for why Spanish is increasingly being spoken in the United States other than millions per year of inbound illegal immigrants, primarily from Spanish-speaking Latin American countries crossing our border (being regularly assisted through international NGOs on how to claim asylum and abuse our permanently backlogged immigration courts to the tune of tens of thousands per day and new weekly videos of caravans of migrants walking around the border fences and crossing shallow rivers) in record numbers today, but the same incessant immigration pattern for decades - they would agree that all of the aforementioned has nothing to do with Spanish increasingly being spoken in America?

Do you work for the US State department by chance or are you just that bad at addition?

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for Dutch.. no 2 for German?.. that's not right.. oh yeah, 2 for Spanish. Para Espanol blah blah blah, can you hear it in your mind even now? It is forced upon us, or at least thrust if forced isn't exactly the right word at just about every customer service interaction or government service nowadays. Do I like it? No. Do I prefer it? No. Am I xenophobic (fearing) of the Spanish speaking? I mean generally not unless I see someone with a bunch of gang tattoos.

Xenophobia is just another stupid label the managerial class has methodically installed in the minds of masses through mass media to demonize in-group preference amongst ethnically European people. I say ethnically European people specifically--because how often do you see this label incessantly thrown at Latinos, Indians, or Black Americans for expressing a preference for their own race? No, it only goes one way here.

Also, you're not well traveled if you think in-group preference or it's far more extreme/anti-social expression, actual racism, is more prevalent here than many other ethnically homogeneous countries. But this is just one aspect and not even the important one of what you're contending with.

Frankly, it's such an utterly braindead take to strawman the personal preference to not want to be taxed to pay for the services of people who not only don't speak your native language, but are massively dependent upon tax-payer funded services to survive which will ultimately require your labor to support as "racism" or "xenophobia".

As a man, why in the name of god almighty would I want to pay for an endless supply of adult children and actual children who themselves require absurd amounts of support in taxes, food, housing, medical services, etc. which ultimately means the support of our labor and time who are then not only going to be in competition for the limited jobs, but simultaneously drive down wages because the labor supply is not immune to the basic economics of supply and demand (all of this in the era of automation and AI too).

Maybe, just maybe, I'd like to afford my own family rather than be forced to pay for Juan Julio's at the point of a gun which is what we are currently forced to do regardless of what shitbird red or blue political pawn is currently running their lying mouth on the idiot box we call tell-lie-vision. Xenophobia my ass.

OK, you clearly aren't living in reality here and have your narratives screwed up.

Automation literally did and does the opposite of killing American manufacturing as it replaces labor negating the expense of domestic labor and allows manufacturing to compete with often exploited or slave labor overseas (by displacing and replacing jobs). Because of the advances technology afforded production efficiency, more manufacturing could remain competitive in our high COL labor markets as domestic labor was forced to compete with overseas cheap labor due to globalization and trade policies.

Automation didn't kill American manufacturing, it simply slowed down the off-shoring trend when the metaphorical floodgates were opened - the actual culprit was globalization, more specifically, decades of the American political class doing the bidding of international merchants and bankers creating trade policy that pitted highly regulated domestic labor against unregulated overseas slave labor.

So it looks like you kind of get it, but I don't know why you think that's a thing to celebrate all that much. Unless you yourself own the productive assets, or a piece of it yourself, the wealth generated from automation isn't getting spread amongst the population too broadly. Automation and robotic production tends to funnel wealth upwards rather than outwards (exacerbating wealth inequality), which I'm sure you noticed is kind of a problem lately, especially with all the unskilled labor continuing to flood across the border.

Furthermore, I think this narrative that production and jobs are flooding back here is totally false with some serious caveats too. Have you noticed how many bribes and tax advantaged incentives cities try to offer companies just to install their factory or headquarters on their home turf. This blatant misuse of tax-payer funds, socialized risk-->privatized profits has become commonplace amongst American business.

It's the absolutely perverse and dystopian reality that is chucked aside and ignored in favor of uncritical political sound bites advocating how such and such politician brought x-number of jobs to their city/state while lying through omission as to how much of the tax-payer's money (future labor) they misused to bribe said company for those jobs. Then everyone complains how the same companies don't pay taxes. What a world right?

Furthermore, I think the production that is moving from China lately isn't much ending up in America but rather Vietnam, Thailand, India, etc. I could find some supporting links, but I don't think anyone much cares at this point.

Few people seem to care about the details of just about anything and would rather parrot nice-sounding lies all the way to the grave.

Spoiler

1. Why so angry? I wasn't talking to you, so, to quote the world's newest billionaire*, "You need to calm down." To answer my own question: you're angry because your "news" sources are all about stirring up anger and outrage, because it motivates people almost as much as fear. Anyway, stress kills. Relax.

2. You don't know what you're talking about and/or you reply to things I didn't say. You also make all kinds of wild assumptions about me based on things you only imagined I said. (If I cared what you think, I might be insulted. ) There are too many mistakes to list them all, so here are a couple examples:

Your "Push 1 for English. Push 2 for..." silliness. Ummm. You are aware that being given options is the opposite of being forced to do something, right? So, like I said: no one is being forced to speak Spanish. 

I didn't say automation killed American manufacturing. I said the opposite: it increased American manufacturing. The harm it has done is eliminate jobs. It isn't stoppable, or even necessarily evil. But since America is a consumer economy, if no one can be employed, who will consume? We need to adapt and we are too busy bashing immigrants and fighting stupid culture wars to do anything productive.

Etc. Etc. The rest of your reply is similarly wrong or off-target. Did you even read what I wrote? You don't seem to have understood it, if you did. The whole last half of your reply is baseless assumptions about me and rants about things nobody mentioned. If you didn't catch that yourself when you were writing it, I doubt I can help you see it now.

But at least you got your talking points off your chest, so... thanks for sharing??

Edited November 12, 2023 by UPONIT
* Taylor Swift

[novazeus]

same with my vw touareg i lemoned with 1200 miles and an inch of water inside. vw's solution, store the vehicle indoors. german built, hideous engineering.

[Critzlez]

6 hours ago, Vanturion said:

Going to drag this back into the pit for a minute because you've said some pretty outrageous things I'd rather not remain unchallenged. Mods can split this discussion to the off-topic hole whenever anyway.

So if I were to ask any linguist on the planet, 100% of them would have some other reason for why Spanish is increasingly being spoken in the United States other than millions per year of inbound illegal immigrants, primarily from Spanish-speaking Latin American countries crossing our border (being regularly assisted through international NGOs on how to claim asylum and abuse our permanently backlogged immigration courts to the tune of tens of thousands per day and new weekly videos of caravans of migrants walking around the border fences and crossing shallow rivers) in record numbers today, but the same incessant immigration pattern for decades - they would agree that all of the aforementioned has nothing to do with Spanish increasingly being spoken in America?

Do you work for the US State department by chance or are you just that bad at addition?

Press 1 for English, Press 2 for Dutch.. no 2 for German?.. that's not right.. oh yeah, 2 for Spanish. Para Espanol blah blah blah, can you hear it in your mind even now? It is forced upon us, or at least thrust if forced isn't exactly the right word at just about every customer service interaction or government service nowadays. Do I like it? No. Do I prefer it? No. Am I xenophobic (fearing) of the Spanish speaking? I mean generally not unless I see someone with a bunch of gang tattoos.

Xenophobia is just another stupid label the managerial class has methodically installed in the minds of masses through mass media to demonize in-group preference amongst ethnically European people. I say ethnically European people specifically--because how often do you see this label incessantly thrown at Latinos, Indians, or Black Americans for expressing a preference for their own race? No, it only goes one way here.

Also, you're not well traveled if you think in-group preference or it's far more extreme/anti-social expression, actual racism, is more prevalent here than many other ethnically homogeneous countries. But this is just one aspect and not even the important one of what you're contending with.

Frankly, it's such an utterly braindead take to strawman the personal preference to not want to be taxed to pay for the services of people who not only don't speak your native language, but are massively dependent upon tax-payer funded services to survive which will ultimately require your labor to support as "racism" or "xenophobia".

As a man, why in the name of god almighty would I want to pay for an endless supply of adult children and actual children who themselves require absurd amounts of support in taxes, food, housing, medical services, etc. which ultimately means the support of our labor and time who are then not only going to be in competition for the limited jobs, but simultaneously drive down wages because the labor supply is not immune to the basic economics of supply and demand (all of this in the era of automation and AI too).

Maybe, just maybe, I'd like to afford my own family rather than be forced to pay for Juan Julio's at the point of a gun which is what we are currently forced to do regardless of what shitbird red or blue political pawn is currently running their lying mouth on the idiot box we call tell-lie-vision. Xenophobia my ass.

OK, you clearly aren't living in reality here and have your narratives screwed up.

Automation literally did and does the opposite of killing American manufacturing as it replaces labor negating the expense of domestic labor and allows manufacturing to compete with often exploited or slave labor overseas (by displacing and replacing jobs). Because of the advances technology afforded production efficiency, more manufacturing could remain competitive in our high COL labor markets as domestic labor was forced to compete with overseas cheap labor due to globalization and trade policies.

Automation didn't kill American manufacturing, it simply slowed down the off-shoring trend when the metaphorical floodgates were opened - the actual culprit was globalization, more specifically, decades of the American political class doing the bidding of international merchants and bankers creating trade policy that pitted highly regulated domestic labor against unregulated overseas slave labor.

So it looks like you kind of get it, but I don't know why you think that's a thing to celebrate all that much. Unless you yourself own the productive assets, or a piece of it yourself, the wealth generated from automation isn't getting spread amongst the population too broadly. Automation and robotic production tends to funnel wealth upwards rather than outwards (exacerbating wealth inequality), which I'm sure you noticed is kind of a problem lately, especially with all the unskilled labor continuing to flood across the border.

Furthermore, I think this narrative that production and jobs are flooding back here is totally false with some serious caveats too. Have you noticed how many bribes and tax advantaged incentives cities try to offer companies just to install their factory or headquarters on their home turf. This blatant misuse of tax-payer funds, socialized risk-->privatized profits has become commonplace amongst American business.

It's the absolutely perverse and dystopian reality that is chucked aside and ignored in favor of uncritical political sound bites advocating how such and such politician brought x-number of jobs to their city/state while lying through omission as to how much of the tax-payer's money (future labor) they misused to bribe said company for those jobs. Then everyone complains how the same companies don't pay taxes. What a world right?

Furthermore, I think the production that is moving from China lately isn't much ending up in America but rather Vietnam, Thailand, India, etc. I could find some supporting links, but I don't think anyone much cares at this point.

Few people seem to care about the details of just about anything and would rather parrot nice-sounding lies all the way to the grave.

Lots of a words for a braindead take

[0000]

Just now, Critzlez said:

Lots of a words for a braindead take

Insult with zero substance or argumentation to support your opinion. I understand, using your words can be hard for some people. You probably would have done well in casting here.

[0000]

Just now, UPONIT said:

1. Why so angry? I wasn't talking to you, so, to quote the world's newest billionaire*, "You need to calm down." To answer my own question: you're angry because your "news" sources are all about stirring up anger and outrage, because it motivates people almost as much as fear. Anyway, stress kills. Relax.

First of all, it's an open forum. Anything you or I post is fair game for anyone to respond to.

Why do you think disagreement and refuting your points automatically means I'm angry? Is misrepresenting my opinions and supporting arguments as simply a product of "news" sources some kind of coping mechanism to deal with people who disagree with you? Does it help you to condescend my intent as essentially angry rambling rather than well reasoned refutations of errors you made in your assertions?

Just now, UPONIT said:

Your "Push 1 for English. Push 2 for..." silliness. Ummm. You are aware that being given options is the opposite of being forced to do something, right? So, like I said: no one is being forced to speak Spanish.

I don't prefer to be given these options. Being repeatedly confronted with special accommodations for foreigners is not preferable. Not preferring something related to cultural differences does not mean I or anyone else is xenophobic (afraid of foreigners, literally the definition). These are errors in your assertions and I'm pointing them out so you won't continue to misuse these labels in the future.

On a related note, there used to be a reasonable expectation for assimilation to occur with the culture here. That's obviously gone now replaced with ever increasing amounts of accommodation and tax-payer funding flowing accordingly. That's force. Taxes to support these changes are a form of force and if you don't think so, try not paying your taxes.

You say force isn't happening. I'm saying it is. It absolutely, irrefutably is regarding taxes and resources supporting Spanish speaking or otherwise for that matter, illegal immigration. The problem isn't foreigners seeking opportunity, that's perfectly fine. The problem is when there's an open-check book supported by both political parties to accelerate and accommodate mass quantities of illegal immigration, forcibly change this countries demographics in the face of automation, Ai, and offshoring economic pressures, not to mention outrageous never-ending military expenditures, and rampant inflation too all the while taxing us for this "privilege".

I don't know why anyone thinks this situation is perfectly fine or should react by complying with the suggestions of billionaires for that matter in the face of these realities.
 

Just now, UPONIT said:

I didn't say automation killed American manufacturing. I said the opposite:

16 hours ago, UPONIT said:

3. Outsourcing didn't kill American manufacturing. Automation did.

You have no credibility here, you realize that right? That's a direct quote from you saying exactly what you are claiming you didn't say. Crazy.

Just now, UPONIT said:

Did you even read what I wrote? You don't seem to have understood it, if you did.

Like talking to a brick wall. Well, my arguments stand for posterity anyway even if you couldn't learn anything here.

[Critzlez]

4 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

First of all, it's an open forum. Anything you or I post is fair game for anyone to respond to.

Why do you think disagreement and refuting your points automatically means I'm angry? Is misrepresenting my opinions and supporting arguments as simply a product of "news" sources some kind of coping mechanism to deal with people who disagree with you? Does it help you to condescend my intent as essentially angry rambling rather than well reasoned refutations of errors you made in your assertions?

I don't prefer to be given these options. Being repeatedly confronted with special accommodations for foreigners is not preferable. Not preferring something related to cultural differences does not mean I or anyone else is xenophobic (afraid of foreigners, literally the definition). These are errors in your assertions and I'm pointing them out so you won't continue to misuse these labels in the future.

On a related note, there used to be a reasonable expectation for assimilation to occur with the culture here. That's obviously gone now replaced with ever increasing amounts of accommodation and tax-payer funding flowing accordingly. That's force. Taxes to support these changes are a form of force and if you don't think so, try not paying your taxes.

You say force isn't happening. I'm saying it is. It absolutely, irrefutably is regarding taxes and resources supporting Spanish speaking or otherwise for that matter, illegal immigration. The problem isn't foreigners seeking opportunity, that's perfectly fine. The problem is when there's an open-check book supported by both political parties to accelerate and accommodate mass quantities of illegal immigration, forcibly change this countries demographics in the face of automation, Ai, and offshoring economic pressures, not to mention outrageous never-ending military expenditures, and rampant inflation too all the while taxing us for this "privilege".

I don't know why anyone thinks this situation is perfectly fine or should react by complying with the suggestions of billionaires for that matter in the face of these realities.
 

You have no credibility here, you realize that right? That's a direct quote from you saying exactly what you are claiming you didn't say. Crazy.

Like talking to a brick wall. Well, my arguments stand for posterity anyway even if you couldn't learn anything here.

Bro this isn't the forum to talk your bullshit lmao. No one cares. No one is reading your essay

Edited November 12, 2023 by Critzlez

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Just now, Critzlez said:

Bro this isn't the forum to talk your bullshit lmao. No one cares. No one is reading your essay

Why make a post if you don't care? At least one person read it, so you're already wrong there.

And not your bro, ese

[Critzlez]

7 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Why make a post if you don't care? At least one person read it, so you're already wrong there.

And not your bro, ese

If you genuinely think a large part of the problem of wealth inequality comes from a large part of illegal immigration, or even think illegal immigration is a huge problem, you're retarded and dont know what youre talking about. Especially if you think we are forced to listen to spanish because there's an option to choose Spanish on the phone lmaoo

Edited November 12, 2023 by Critzlez

[0000]

Just now, Critzlez said:

If you genuinely think a large part of the problem of wealth inequality comes from a large part of illegal immigration, or even think illegal immigration is a huge problem, you're retarded and dont know what youre talking about

The only point at which I mentioned wealth inequality is when I pointed to automation as one of the drivers for it. Never said illegal immigration caused wealth inequality, but hey, now that you mentioned it - when you bring a bunch of people in who have zero savings in a country where the average net worth is $746,000 dollars per family (seems pretty high to me, but I bet most of that is housing inflation and stocks), that, by definition, increases wealth inequality. Basic math Juan Julio.

As for illegal immigration being a problem - I'll link it again.

Yep, no problems here. Totally fine bringing in endless amount of slave labor to compete for limited jobs and getting the American tax donkeys to pay to house, feed them, medical care, and legal representation. Not like younger Americans wanted a stable future anyway.

I'm just a retard here, don't know what I'm talking about.

Just now, Critzlez said:

Especially if you think we are forced to listen to spanish because there's an option to choose Spanish on the phone lmaoo

That's literally the only thing I said, I was really just mad I had to press 1 on the phone. Everything else was just stupid scary non-sense words. Problem solved!

I hope you don't reproduce - not that it matters anyway though given the above situation.

 

[Critzlez]

59 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

The only point at which I mentioned wealth inequality is when I pointed to automation as one of the drivers for it. Never said illegal immigration caused wealth inequality, but hey, now that you mentioned it - when you bring a bunch of people in who have zero savings in a country where the average net worth is $746,000 dollars per family (seems pretty high to me, but I bet most of that is housing inflation and stocks), that, by definition, increases wealth inequality. Basic math Juan Julio.

As for illegal immigration being a problem - I'll link it again.

Yep, no problems here. Totally fine bringing in endless amount of slave labor to compete for limited jobs and getting the American tax donkeys to pay to house, feed them, medical care, and legal representation. Not like younger Americans wanted a stable future anyway.

I'm just a retard here, don't know what I'm talking about.

That's literally the only thing I said, I was really just mad I had to press 1 on the phone. Everything else was just stupid scary non-sense words. Problem solved!

I hope you don't reproduce - not that it matters anyway though given the above situation.

 

You're scapegoating illegal immigrants and overstating the negatives. This problem is more complex than you think. Yes, you don't know what you're talking about. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Critzlez

[Unventor]

Now I had a sense a lot of debate would come from my post earlier and that some of it would be kinda off topic. 

I will explain why thought behind this and round it off with why it is related to V14 in my eyes. 

Comparing how the world is nor vs when I grew up in the 1970ish we have gone from together culture to a me first culture (in most wentern countries). This has now reach a point where it is very very damaging. 

Social media has made it sooo easy to get your world perspective confirmed that people tend to forget how to compromise to get along. 

This also effect the EU's community. Where we have a hard time to get EUCs fully accepted legally the increase power and speed and weight makes this a much harder argument. 

Let's just look at the V13. People reguest that speed to ride it at that speed. They didn't request bigger safety margin. To justify this state ment I use what people did with the Z10. Load modded firmware to increase the top speed. And ever since (some laud) people have kept requesting more speed. And I have seen this yet again with V14. 

So where can you ride at V13 top speed legally? I don't know that it is possible in EU. 8n the US maybe but you need to get to the freeway right? So the quest I ask here is that a safe place to be on an EUC? I mean I rather not read about more stories like the one from Hawaii 

Now as weight goes up taking out the EUC on trail raids also proves a problem as there are a limit to weight and power and speed in many areas to preserve the landscape. 

So here again I view this is the me first culture to kick in. It only matter what these riders think are fun and what they enjoy. With a total lag of how others preceive this from the outside. Yet again we have seen stories several time like when the Sherman had it launch how high speed riding in a share pedestrian bike pathway was used. Which is the first time I have seen the community to start to reflect upon the request and use of speed on an EUC. 

Now an EUC is by default a unsafe device. Some might agree with this. But here is why it is unsafe. It will no balance by itself. It need to function right. Since anything can fail at any given point it is just a matter of when this happens. If you then ride at higher speed that what we can move our own body then you are going passed for what it is designed to do by nature. It is not a matter of opinion, this is how it is no matter if we like it or not. 

So then we can add what is the likelihood of a fauld happening? It doesn't remive the risk but we might be more acceptable with the risk factor. But to think redundancy can be made to take the risk away is simply wrong in my eyes. 

Also from what I have seen here on the forum and from my own experience crashing with an EUC is not the same as MC or bicycle. And it matter not really how many miles you have ridden og skills you have learned. Two very different riders with very different risktaking still crashed out of the blue. Here I think of @Marty Backe and Chootec (or how you spell it).

Now let me be very clear I view these two riders very differently. I have enormous respect for Marty and how he rides and his work in the community. So with Chootec not so much (put diplomatically). 

So about the V14. I view this as an EUC that has moved forward in many ways from what I can see in what is accessible to me without having a sample irl by me. 

Not having 2 hall sensors is not a deal breaker for me. But not having the battery monitor option like the V14 and V11Y would be a deal breaker. This is down to a huge fire that took place within the past 6 months from an escooter as starting  point. 

How easy it seems to service makes me look at the V14 above the V11Y. And I made this very clear to Inmotion. I am still waiting out the winter off season here in Sweden before upgrading. Yes I do ride in the winter but I rather not take a new experience EUC out in salty winter conditions and jump on a first batch that tends to launch with some issues no matter how much they have been tested. I had 3 first batch model already. And this time I am not in a position to much have as my V11 still works. 

If I were to buy the V14, I would properly limit it to 40kmh due to being 16". I have limited my V11. I would most likely ride it without pads as this tends me to ride a lot more conservative and less aggressive. I could imagine that the amount of torque the V14 has that it could loose traction if ridden to aggressively. I have experience this with both KS16X and V11 if riding in wet conditions and breaking/ turning and accelerating and hitting road marks (round about crossings doing L turns into bike lanes). 

Also it seems that new restricted EU laws are in their making that could make V14 and V13 easy target for confiscatetion. That could hit EUC sales hard and make developing high speed EUC much more expensive in other regions due to lost sales eq less units to share development and manufacturing costs on. 

And yes no all will agree to what I put out here. But that does not make my predictions any different. So the question is what can we together as a community do together vs individual me first culture? 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Unventor

[Schepi]

I am one of its many discreet visitors who never post anything but read the pages of this forum carefully. But clearly the subject is going completely off the rails, I come (like many I think) to get information, opinions, ... on the inmotion Adventure. This will unfortunately be my last message I think, I come here to talk about EUC not about immigration, or whatever I know... Already on the FR forum it's quickly going to shit with FR resellers and unhappy customers and that was one of the reasons that made me come here, but in fact it's worse... Too bad... For me, for the community, just a shame. I think it would be wise to talk about this type of very controversial subject on another forum. From my European point of view, there are really some really dirty racists here.

Courage for those who are really interested in EUCs

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, Critzlez said:

You're scapegoating illegal immigrants and overstating the negatives

They have had to call in the national guard here in the north east because of it, hotels in my area are over run with these people and they are not contributing to society one bit. I don't have a problem with immigrants coming to the US. We are a country of immigrants. However the endless barrage of illegal immigrants is unsustainable and a major contribution to our societal degradation. As well as overwhelming all of our systems including health care. My wife whom is a cancer survivor and has one lung was told by her primary care doctor to go to urgent care for a breathing problem because there isn't any appointments for 6 months. Doesn't seem overstated to me. We have a saying here in the north east. California, not like the rest of us.