Leaperkim Lynx 2700wh: 151V, 20" tire, suspension, 89lb

[The Brahan Seer]

13 hours ago, Rawnei said:

That is not true at all, plenty of Begode wheels have the motor bolts becoming loose.

I thought we were talking about bolts being torqued out of spec not loose bolts which is a totally different issue. Bottom line is nearly all wheels have issues of some sort that need highlighting to make us aware of so we can mitigate them.

[Duster]

14 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

I think plenty of suspension EUC's have flex but there's enough space between the tire and the "shell" that the flex isn't an issue. Apparently the Lynx tolerances are tighter.

What flex exists is not an issue for the vast majority of riders. I've seen how some riders (who have complained about flex) ride and their carving is extreme, and I can see where they would have a problem.

I've wondered so much about this! I like your hypothesis too. Whenever I've stepped on before or extreme bull wheels they've felt much wider than my Sherman S (I've only been on an OG Commander, and an EX20s, but it always felt really different), and I recall my OG Sherman had enough body flex and so little internal space that carving with a tire inflated to 40psi would lead to internal rubbing (35psi and lower was completely fine). Furthermore, the Shinko 244 is so wide that there are literal millimeters of space within the Sherman S body (which seems to have carried over to the SL in Marty and Roger's video about swapping the tire). Therefore, I'm inclined to believe that these tolerances may be the crucial difference in the EUC brands and how many people dislike the Leaperkim wheels for what could be the same amount of flex as other brands' wheels.

On a slightly different note, when I think long and hard about the Leaperkim design, the fact that they partnered with FastAce to make the shocks pretty much explains the suspension design choices they made. While the naysayers claim that Leaperkim messed up by not using a slider system to fasten the motor clamp side of the suspension to the body (as Extreme Bull has), when you look at how suspension is used on the dirt bikes that FastAce supports, they have effectively the same amount of contact points as the Leaperkim suspension design, making sliders superfluous parts that are accessory at best and another part to break at worst (no one wants sliders as bad as the King Song S22's). I'll post a couple photos to demonstrate what I mean:

Take a look at FastAce suspension on dirt bikes (pictured is a downhill bicycle, but the design is the same on their Sur-Ron/dirt bike suspension implementations, i just found the photo below to be the best demonstration.). It holds the front wheel with two stanchions, held together at two different points, with two different brackets that are mounted onto a singular structure (in this case, it's an upright pole that goes into the body of the motorcycle). When you look at the Sherman L, you see that the two points for fastening the two stanchions together are the side panels that mount with screws, and the contoured sections of the top frame and side panels, which seem to be relatively tight tolerances (Note: the Sherman S did not have this contouring, and is still stable). The "singular structure" that holds these stanchion fasteners on the Sherman L is effectively the whole unit, with the side panels slotting into the top frame's structural contours (these contours are so that the screws aren't the only thing holding the wheel together against torsional forces). It's an effective approach to applying dirt bike suspension into EUCs.

Effectively, Leaperkim have re-engineered dirt bike suspension for their wheels. So a lot of the complaints we are seeing are essentially claims that dirt bikes are structurally unsound, unstable vehicles (ignoring that they have way longer stanchions and the spokes of their wheels allow for much more of a different kind of side-to-side flex). And if Marty's hypothesis about tolerances being the main cause for the brand differences in complaints, then all of this postulation about whether the suspension design is flawed (rather than that it is susceptible to excessive wear when not fastened properly) is not going to help address the concerns of people whose wheels are actually loose (I feel sorry for Brian's Lynx).

See below where the top part of the body

  

Sherman L photo credit goes to:

On 7/23/2024 at 6:33 PM, Taras said:

 

[Rawnei]

5 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

I thought we were talking about bolts being torqued out of spec not loose bolts which is a totally different issue. Bottom line is nearly all wheels have issues of some sort that need highlighting to make us aware of so we can mitigate them.

It's the same thing, that is why the bolts come loose most of the time because they weren't torqued which was my point, different wheels, different symptoms, same root cause, bottom line is that improper re-assembly can lead to unwanted consequence, riders need to take better care putting their wheels back together after swapping tires.

[The Brahan Seer]

21 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

It's the same thing, that is why the bolts come loose most of the time because they weren't torqued which was my point

Ah I get you. This is my misunderstanding. You think the flex is due to loose bolts. So the riders who have experience of, or own other wheels only ever under torque their Leaperkim wheels and not their other ones. I wonder why this happens? or maybe they only notice it on Leaperkim wheels? Very strange. But the consensus is the Lynx et al are in majority a very good, stable wheel and don't really suffer these issues. So all good. 

[techyiam]

11 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

You think the flex is due to loose bolts.

I don't think it is as simple as that.

When Brian first showed that Rogers's Lynx flexes too, Roger was surprised, 

In the Sherman-L tire change video, although it was in fast forward playback speed, we can still see Roger uses a T-handle to finish off the tightening of the screws and bolts. I believe Roger thought he had the Lynx's fasteners all securely tightened, as he usually does. 

I am not convinced Rogers's Lynx would stop flexing in the chassis flex test, even though the said bolts are re-tightened to proper specs now.

Perhaps Roger wasn't initially aware that some of the Lynx's bolts required above average tightening torque. And so, the damage has been already done.

In Rogers's video, he seems to believe the flexing is primarily due to the design.

But that can't be it because in Sweden, there are a bunch that don't flex. 😀

 

[The Brahan Seer]

This clears it all up, now with added flex...its a feature! 

 

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

But that can't be it because in Sweden, there are a bunch that don't flex. 😀

Dunno if you jest or not but you can see many people in this thread saying theirs don't flex and they are not from Sweden.

You can also read the comments on Rogers video people saying the same thing.

Edited August 5 by Rawnei

[techyiam]

21 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Dunno if you jest or not but you can see many people in this thread saying theirs don't flex and they are not from Sweden.

You can also read the comments on Rogers video people saying the same thing.

No, you are quite right.

I am aware that there have been owners saying that theirs don't flex in different parts of the world, especially when the wheels are new and untouched.

So yeah, I am guilty. 

Edited August 5 by techyiam

[MichaelMcEntire]

How is everyone liking their Lynx? I have a Master Pro, and recently picked up a used V14. I found I really enjoy the V14, I just find the range a tiny bit sucky, and also wish it was faster on the top end. I’m constantly hitting tilt back. I am considering the Lynx and the ET Max. I understand the ET Max is not much lighter than my Pro, but probably a lot more stable than the Lynx. The suspension and weight on the Lynx, along with its high top speed are attractive. 
 I’m sure there might be a little bias in this thread, but what’s your honest opinion between the two?

[Rawnei]

14 minutes ago, MichaelMcEntire said:

 I understand the ET Max is not much lighter than my Pro, but probably a lot more stable than the Lynx.

This is slowly becoming a meme, Lynx is not unstable, unstable riders need to practice more.

[Ryan5508]

1 hour ago, Rawnei said:

This is slowly becoming a meme, Lynx is not unstable, unstable riders need to practice more.

or its just the crap street tire that came with the original batches.

There is (on mine at least) and huge difference in wobbles and such based off tire inflation.

At 26 psi and under I can ride 40 mph+ no issues. at 30 psi it would start to wobble around 28-30 mph. The higher the psi the worse it gets. these are throw you off the euc fast type wobbles. 

 

I just ordered the TNT J-2306 tire last night and cant wait to trash the original tire.

 

[Skampster]

Steady as a rock here with the kenda. 

[MandatoryFun]

4 hours ago, Ryan5508 said:

or its just the crap street tire that came with the original batches.

There is (on mine at least) and huge difference in wobbles and such based off tire inflation.

At 26 psi and under I can ride 40 mph+ no issues. at 30 psi it would start to wobble around 28-30 mph. The higher the psi the worse it gets. these are throw you off the euc fast type wobbles. 

 

I just ordered the TNT J-2306 tire last night and cant wait to trash the original tire.

 

I would love to hear your thoughts on the TNT tire once you have it installed! I'm still debating which tire to buy.

[daniel1234]

10 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

This clears it all up, now with added flex...its a feature! 

Lol, what comes next? They will add it into the spec sheet, instead of making a workaround ?:D  I would be terrified if I heard a tyre hitting a shell on hard carving. 

[daniel1234]

5 hours ago, Ryan5508 said:

or its just the crap street tire that came with the original batches.

There is (on mine at least) and huge difference in wobbles and such based off tire inflation.

At 26 psi and under I can ride 40 mph+ no issues. at 30 psi it would start to wobble around 28-30 mph. The higher the psi the worse it gets. these are throw you off the euc fast type wobbles. 

 

I just ordered the TNT J-2306 tire last night and cant wait to trash the original tire.

 

Is TNT tyre manufacturer good ? I dont hear about them in EU. A lot of ppl get it, not sure why.

[jimjam.nyc]

The amount people who get upset when someone has a negative experience with the brand they like is pretty hysterical. I still for the life of me cant understand the need to defend, and even swear up and down the negative experience is the users fault. 

Not everyone is going to have the same experience on every product. This goes for literally everything. 

If anything about a wheel concerns you, don't let anyone convince you its not an issue for you. At the price these wheels cost, don't let any fan of a brand tell you what is acceptable and not to your experience. 

If you have any questions, call your distributor, etc. I really feel like this is the best way to get information. Even the most knowledgeable people on YouTube and these boards often make mistakes and have wrong info. 

 

 

 

[Anthraksi]

17 hours ago, techyiam said:

In the Sherman-L tire change video, although it was in fast forward playback speed, we can still see Roger uses a T-handle to finish off the tightening of the screws and bolts. I believe Roger thought he had the Lynx's fasteners all securely tightened, as he usually does. 

I am not convinced Rogers's Lynx would stop flexing in the chassis flex test, even though the said bolts are re-tightened to proper specs now.

Perhaps Roger wasn't initially aware that some of the Lynx's bolts required above average tightening torque. And so, the damage has been already done.

In Rogers's video, he seems to believe the flexing is primarily due to the design.

But that can't be it because in Sweden, there are a bunch that don't flex. 😀

 

Did he state that he retorqued the bolts according to spec? Cause if he didn't I don't think his hand can act as an accurate torque wrench that can feel exactly when it hits 15nm, or was it 18nm for the motor bolts. Not sure, but either way, you cant tell it by hand, period.

I say this cause I have minimal flex on the Sherman S (a little flex is always there, if you twist it hard enough) and I have never taken the suspension stanchions off, aka the bolts are at stock torque. Which seems to be enough, but I can't say for sure since I haven't measured it myself, aka my own findings don't really matter in this case cause I can't prove that the bolts are up to spec, I can only prove that mine does not have a lot of movement that would affect the wheel handling or cause any friction between the motor cover and the battery covers

16 hours ago, The Brahan Seer said:

This clears it all up, now with added flex...its a feature! 

 

Yes that is the same Sherman L which had the tire change done on a video. No torque wrench in sight so they have no idea if its even close to spec or not. Highly doubt they tore it down again and checked it out, but I welcome any proof to be proven wrong.

I mean they can do whatever they like on their wheels, but unless they torque the bolts to spec and then test if it flexes, I don't really think their opinion or results matter in this situation. Oh you torqued them by feeling and it flexes? Then you state that it is an intended feature? Why should I believe you since I have no idea if your bolts are even close to spec or not?

I think that someone should already put this fucking stupid debate to rest. Tear down their wheel, film them using a torque wrench on all the bolts with them torqued to spec, then do the flex test. It is absolutely futile to try to prove something without showing any absolute proof that your bolts are properly torqued. I don't really even care about the end result, if it still flexes and the motor cover rubs against the battery cases during high speed turns or carving, then absolutely yes, it is something that should not happen and should be addressed by LK.

Cause so far all I have seen is speculation without any proof. It's an useless debate if people just use their own opinions against each other when this could simply be tested with proof.

[on one]

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Not everyone is going to have the same experience on every product. This goes for literally everything. 

Yes, and it's not the same thing as McDonald's vs Burger King or Pepsi vs Coke. Leaper Kim vs Begode is more like Craftsman (tools known for quality) vs HYPER TOUGH (a generic tool that breaks easy marketed through Walmart)

[Rawnei]

A big problem in this community is people spreading misinformation based on subjective experience, to give an example, maybe a person received a wheel with a tire they didn't like, then they attribute the behaviour of the tire to the wheel itself, makes posts and videos about how said wheel is bad because of their subjective experience without even realizing you can put a different tire on the wheel to make it behave differently the way they want it to, then suddenly there is a train going on with people joining in and echoing that wheel X is bad because of one persons experience, usually it's some kind of odd confirmation bias going on.

The flex discussion is an odd one for sure, it started with a video of one rider showing that he had flex in his Lynx and that it was an issue for him, no comparisons or analysis of why there might be flex just a statement that it flexes, then suddenly people who don't even have a Lynx chime in and suddenly the discussion is that it's a universal problem on all LeaperKim wheels due to poor design.

Then people suggesting root causes, saying they don't have a problem with flex in their LeaperKim wheel or that the little flex they might have is not causing them any problems gets flak because some people already decided it's a design flaw.

I mean torquing bolts to specification is not really a controversial thing, it's pretty normal mechanical practice yet people scoff at the suggestion like it was something radical, and not torquing your bolts you risk running into problems regardless of what wheel you ride and specially if you ride your wheel hard.

[jimjam.nyc]

51 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

I mean torquing bolts to specification is not really a controversial thing, it's pretty normal mechanical practice yet people scoff at the suggestion like it was something radical, and not torquing your bolts you risk running into problems regardless of what wheel you ride and specially if you ride your wheel hard.

Except for the fact that literally every other wheel does not need everything torqued exactly to spec to avoid having the kind of flex play these wheels seem to have. While I don't necessarily disagree with you, people should assemble their wheels to spec as much as possible, then compare and test. It is also fair to say that there should be a bit more tolerance or margin for error. (if the issue is actually due to torque specs). 

It is a legitimate question for those looking at a product costing as much as Sherman L and Lynx.

I am not a big believer in follow everything you hear on Youtube or forums, which is why I always say call and talk to someone who is kind of on the hook for supporting your purchase when you have these questions.

Edit: I also want to add. if the torque specs of certain bolts are vital to the performance of the wheel. LK should be publishing those specs in their manuals, etc. Not spreading the info by way of word of mouth. If these specs are now in the manuals, then I stand corrected, but on my patton I needed to go to telegram groups to get that info...

Edited August 6 by jimjam.nyc

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Except for the fact that literally every other wheel does not need everything torqued exactly to spec to avoid having the kind of flex play these wheels seem to have.

Sure they do, not for flexing but for other symptoms, I already mentioned in this thread that motor bolts coming loose on Begode wheels is a very common symptom, most likely due to bolts not being torqued.

[Duccen]

.. And don't forget to use Loctite or similar thread lock for metal and metal screw joints.

[Anthraksi]

47 minutes ago, Duccen said:

.. And don't forget to use Loctite or similar thread lock for metal and metal screw joints.

This. Proper torque ensures that they are tight enough, loctite ensures they stay tight enough. Without loctite they might loosen overtime, which can also lead to the flex.

It’s kinda insane that people even suggest that other wheels can be torqued to whatever spec you want and its fine as is. I mean sure it works and stays together if you put loctite, but still, issues might pop up which wouldn’t otherwise. It takes literal seconds to make sure a bolt is properly torqued, but I guess people can do as they want.

Edited August 7 by Anthraksi

[Critzlez]

I'm pretty sure the flex comes from the suspension stanchions. The motor is connected directly to the end of them and they are a moving part, plus it's long, so moving the motor left and right would naturally bend the stanchions. nothing would help with the flex.

Edited August 8 by Critzlez

[techyiam]

8 minutes ago, Critzlez said:

I'm pretty sure the flex comes from the suspension stanchions. The motor is connected directly to the end of them and they are a moving part, plus it's long, so moving the motor left and right would naturally bend the stanchions. nothing would help with the flex.

But, some owners are claiming theirs don't flex.