why running max pressure in ur tire is safer

[novazeus]

don't learn how to ride on a deflated tire. learn to ride on a fully inflated tire to max pressure whatever the tire says.

here's why it's safer and more efficient. take a wheelbarrow and inflate it's tire to max pressure now load up the wheelbarrow with dirt and push it down the road. now deflate the tire to half the max pressure and see how much harder u have to work. that's what ur doing to ur euc by running on less than max pressure making u more supseptible to overleans/cutouts. 

plus, once u learn how to properly balance, the wheels are just more fun and nimble.

and u will never have speed or braking wobbles caused by sidewall deflection.

[mrelwood]

You may not have seen the video from Chooch where he inflated the V12 HT tire to the max mentioned on the tire sidewall. It took just two minutes and the wheel bounced out of control and he crashed. He no longer inflates to max pressure.

 Of course suspension helps with that a bit, but still there’s no point comparing to a overly deflated tire. Just like with suspension, it’s about balance. You need to find a balance between having enough give in the tire, and to have enough pressure for it to roll well. Max pressure doesn’t achieve these goals.

 Just like max pedal hardness isn’t the fastest/most effortless to accelerate. Max anything is rarely the best solution.

[novazeus]

2 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

You may not have seen the video from Chooch where he inflated the V12 HT tire to the max mentioned on the tire sidewall. It took just two minutes and the wheel bounced out of control and he crashed. He no longer inflates to max pressure.

 Of course suspension helps with that a bit, but still there’s no point comparing to a overly deflated tire. Just like with suspension, it’s about balance. You need to find a balance between having enough give in the tire, and to have enough pressure for it to roll well. Max pressure doesn’t achieve these goals.

 Just like max pedal hardness isn’t the fastest/most effortless to accelerate. Max anything is rarely the best solution.

the sidewall is marked for weight capacities at max pressure.

of course chooch doesn't know how to ride a wheel at max tire pressure, btw, the pressure inmotion says u should run ur tire, read the manual, read the tire, esp u at ur size and weight. chooch learned like the rest of u running on deflated tires, so of course he doesn't know how to ride on the tire and the wheel companies recommendation. chooch was running 14psi in the zed when it was loaned to him. running low pressure like marty does offroad is nbd, ur straining the wheel anyway, any the uneven surfaces absorb any tire deflection, but like when marty went down, with wobbles, probably on a downhill section where braking increases sidewall deflection, and the oscillation begins until it dumps marty. i know for a fact, deflated tires cause braking oscillations.

do what u want, but ur just exposing urself to unnecessary cutouts and overleans, unless u think pushing a wheelbarrow with a flat tire is smart?

[Cerbera]

I disagree with pretty much all of the original post here, certainly in relation to my machine. Maximum inflation on a Master makes you waaay unnecessarily tippy and skaty, seriously reduces grip on the road, and is the least desirable situation I can possibly imagine for anyone trying to learn to ride from scratch ! The ONE advantage is the extra mileage you get from riding around on a knife edge with minimal road contact. I run my Master at just 20 PSI, which is the correct PSI for my weight on that tyre on that wheel, and yet is under half what the stated maximum is. I do not have wobbles or sidewall problems, and have not damaged the rim in any way in just under a year of riding it...

Edited October 11, 2023 by Cerbera

[novazeus]

see, we grew up during jimmy carter, and his solution to the oil embargo was for humans to inflate ur tires. because just 5psi more in everyones tires saved a bunch of fuel.

so we know that improperly inflated tires use more energy, wheter it be battery or gas.

read the sidewall of ur tire, it's just math. if u weigh 260 pounds ready to ride, and ur v13 is coming in at 125 with all it's accessories y'all like to decorate with, ur at 385 pounds on one little tire. the tire manufacturers i figure know more than me!

michelin (notice it says MAX LOAD, not suggested load, and that's when the tire is cold! after running a bit on a hot day, it might hit 50psi, the tire manufacturers know this. if u want tire problems, car, truck, euc, run deflated tires.

stock knobby

stock knobby

 

 

3 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I disagree with pretty much all of the original post here, certainly in relation my machine. Maximum inflation on a Master makes you waaay unnecessarily tippy and skaty, seriously reduces grip on the road, and is the least desirable situation I can possibly imagine for anyone trying to learn to ride from scratch ! The ONE advantage is the extra mileage you get from riding around on a knife edge with minimal road contact. I run my Master at just 20 PSI, which is the correct PSI for that tyre on that wheel, and yet is under half what the stated maximum is. I do not have wobbles or sidewall problems.

and u weigh about 135 pounds

[novazeus]

4 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I disagree with pretty much all of the original post here, certainly in relation my machine. Maximum inflation on a Master makes you waaay unnecessarily tippy and skaty, seriously reduces grip on the road, and is the least desirable situation I can possibly imagine for anyone trying to learn to ride from scratch ! The ONE advantage is the extra mileage you get from riding around on a knife edge with minimal road contact. I run my Master at just 20 PSI, which is the correct PSI for that tyre on that wheel, and yet is under half what the stated maximum is. I do not have wobbles or sidewall problems.

how much do u weigh?

[Cerbera]

7 minutes ago, novazeus said:

how much do u weigh?

Not alot. 57 KG. Probably 65 in armour.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Cerbera

[novazeus]

5 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Not alot. 57 KG. Probably 70 in armour.

if ur a lightweight like euc girl, obviously u don't need to run max pressure. 

but to think euc girl and @mrelwood should run the same deflated tire is just laughable.

[alcatraz]

I can see how air pressure is a very personal thing. Do what works for you. For a heavier rider riding a narrower tire you'd naturally be at the higher end of the pressure range. 

You can save a ton of rolling resistance by increasing it, yes. But without suspension you'd really need to be careful.

[alcatraz]

Then there's the grip issue. You might get less after a point.

[Cerbera]

5 minutes ago, novazeus said:

but to think euc girl and @mrelwood should run the same deflated tire is just laughable.

Agreed. Rider weight is definitely a factor, and if I was a bit heavier my pressure would be correspondingly higher. But I'd still have to be almost a giant to want to run it at near max. I'm sure it's different per machine and per tyre type, and with a whole bunch of other factors influencing things I wouldn't be so bold as to advocate for low pressures in every situation, but I think it is a mistake to encourage noobs to ride with maximum PSI as written on the tyre wall. Not to mention what a hard and unpleasant ride it is with high PSIs. Suspension or not, you feel every microbump !

Edited September 30, 2023 by Cerbera

[novazeus]

Just now, Cerbera said:

Agreed. Rider weight is definitely a factor, and if I was a bit heavier my pressure would be correspondingly higher. But I'd still have to be almost a giant to want to run it at near max. I'm sure it's different per machine and per tyre type, and with a whole bunch of other factors influencing things I wouldn't be so bold as to advocate for low pressures in every situation, but I think it is a mistake to encourage noobs to ride with maximum PSI as written on the tyre wall.

the thing about riding these beta wheels for me that's the most scary, is the motor cutting out or overlean for whatever reason. so if a little extra practice learning how to balance on a tire inflated to it's proper psi for the weight it's carrying, makes the motor work easier, i'll learn to balance. i pretty much suck at everything about riding a wheel, but i can ride probably any wheel at max tire pressure and beyond, but haha, u will never get me on a gotway/begode to prove it. go look at marty.

[Robse]

This thread is Dejavu, it's like i have read it all once before in another thread, but i can't find it -?

Anyway;  The wise performers at a circus will tell you that when you have to learn to ride a unicycle, you shouldn't start on a bike with a hard inflated tire. It's like balancing on a knife edge - which is not easy for many people.  On the other hand, it is correct that it is easier to get speed in the wheel, and to turn and swing due to less inertia, but what good is it if you can't keep your balance. So there is not a 100% ideal solution.

[novazeus]

6 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

Then there's the grip issue. You might get less after a point.

traction, other than leaves, has never been a problem but i don't ride in the rain on commute so, idk about traction. deflated tires do best. but just be aware, and not all oscillations are caused by sidewall deflection, but braking does stress the sidewall more, and oscillations could occur. i mean, that's alot of weight on a small tire patch on the pavement.

[novazeus]

1 minute ago, Robse said:

This thread is Dejavu, it's like i have read it all once before in another thread, but i can't find it -?

Anyway;  The wise performers at a circus will tell you that when you have to learn to ride a unicycle, you shouldn't start on a bike with a hard inflated tire. It's like balancing on a knife edge - which is not easy for many people.  On the other hand, it is correct that it is easier to get speed in the wheel, and to turn and swing due to less inertia, but what good is it if you can't keep your balance. So there is not a 100% ideal solution.

absolutely easier to learn on! and do tricks on!

but once ur no longer a beginner, take off ur training wheels and inflate ur tire to what the tire maker said!

do u still ride ur ten speed with ur training wheels on? 

[alcatraz]

I ride 11psi on my 18x3.0 

Super comfy. I picked a tire with really flexible sidewalls so I can run that pressure. 

My feet have become sensitive to bottoming out so as long as I don't I'm good.

[alcatraz]

(And no I don't do any crazy take offs or emergency brakes that I'll risk tearing the valve stem.)

Edited September 30, 2023 by alcatraz

[mrelwood]

8 hours ago, novazeus said:

the most scary, is the motor cutting out or overlean for whatever reason.

You’re riding perhaps the most powerful EUC of all time. Just 6 years ago we happily rode with wheels with a peak power of 500W. That’s 3.8% of the V13’s peak power. Are you absolutely sure your worry is warranted?

This starts to sound to me like riding naked because any weight loss pushes the overlean threshold further. Does it really make a notable difference? Do the pros outweigh the cons? And no reason to repeat the deflated tire analogy, I’m not talking about a deflated tire. Just inflated to a sensible degree.

 

8 hours ago, novazeus said:

traction, other than leaves, has never been a problem

Common pressures (~30 psi on a 18x3”) have never been a problem for me either. If that’s a worthy way of reasoning.

 

[tenofnine]

I personally ride my wheels at 80% of the pressure for my weight so I get a more comfy ride.

But I never ride at the top of any of my wheels speed, I don't get why other people do this (and there seems to be a lot of people in this community egging them on). It's foolish and it's as annoying as seeing morons rev their cars and drag race in school zones/strip malls, or accelerate really quickly just to stop at a stop sign or red light. People seem to love testing limits without care for people around them just so they can get a rush in their sad empty lives. Consider you have a 45-100 lb missile b/n your legs.

I treat my wheels like walking/biking enhancers; it's foolish to trust something that has no fail-safes; and it's dumb stress test them. There is a joy to chilling and still getting from point a to b. Just like you'd never fully discharge your batteries testing full range, don't fully test your wheels top speed.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, tenofnine said:

I personally ride my wheels at 80% of the pressure for my weight so I get a more comfy ride.

But I never ride at the top of any of my wheels speed, I don't get why other people do this (and there seems to be a lot of people in this community egging them on). It's foolish and it's as annoying as seeing morons rev their cars and drag race in school zones/strip malls, or accelerate really quickly just to stop at a stop sign or red light. People seem to love testing limits without care for people around them just so they can get a rush in their sad empty lives. Consider you have a 45-100 lb missile b/n your legs.

I treat my wheels like walking/biking enhancers; it's foolish to trust something that has no fail-safes; and it's dumb stress test them. There is a joy to chilling and still getting from point a to b. Just like you'd never fully discharge your batteries testing full range, don't fully test your wheels top speed.

I'll preface the following by saying that I am actually a very slow and careful rider myself, so I agree its not a great idea to constantly cane your machine round the roads at near max speed, but to my mind there isn't much wrong with finding out what the limits are on a new wheel initially. Even then I am not recommending we blatt it until it cuts out, but we do need to establish what the max 'safe speed' is, and we can't rely on anyone else's figures to get that because it depends on so much personal circumstance. Just think it's important to know where the limits are so we can more accurately remain under them, whilst not curtailing speed unnecessarily.

Edited September 30, 2023 by Cerbera

[alcatraz]

If my machine free spins at 76km/h I'm happy to consider 45-49 to be the "extreme" limit (for me). Another rider might be able to do 60 but that really doesn't make me want to push my limit.

So here's a question. Are these "limits" wheel limits or are they rider individual limits?

How low a limit would you consider unexplored? 

[alcatraz]

14 hours ago, novazeus said:

don't learn how to ride on a deflated tire. learn to ride on a fully inflated tire to max pressure whatever the tire says.

Related to this I'd just want to share how different wheel size can feel.

I recently aquired an Mten3 10in and I normally ride an 18in. The feel is day and night. They turn so extremely differently that my first thought was that I could never get used to both. I'd have to give one up.

Now a week later I'd say you'd be surprised at what we can adjust to. As long as you don't gun your wheel right away I think you can train your brain to very quickly get a hang of vastly different ride characteristics.

I've been surpised again and again at how easy it is to get going with a different wheel as long as you've ridden a wide range before.

(I've become a fan of older Gotways. I now have all sizes. 10", 14", 16", 18". Mten3, Mcm5, Tesla1, Msx.)

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

If my machine free spins at 76km/h I'm happy to consider 45-49 to be the "extreme" limit (for me). Another rider might be able to do 60 but that really doesn't make me want to push my limit.

V11 and MSX 84V both free spin at 78km/h. V11 is limited to 50/55km/h, some say the MSX is a 60km/h wheel. I’d say you’re still on the safe side.

1 hour ago, alcatraz said:

So here's a question. Are these "limits" wheel limits or are they rider individual limits?

Both. I know my personal speed limit is just below the V11’s. And the personal limit can of course change with the wheel as well. Like, I wouldn’t be blasting at 47km/h on a 14D for example…

But people ride extremely differently. Some can choke out a wheel in the first acceleration, while some may not reach 40% of the wheel’s power. This is separate from the top speed even. This is why generalizations can’t work.

 

[Flygonial]

19 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Then there's the grip issue. You might get less after a point.

Local rider found this out first hand (though with no bad ending). Shinko 244 on EX30 (so a bit less street grip already), 47 psi, and race mode all led to him breaking traction during hard, low-speed acceleration. I'd imagine if anybody would know about loss in grip though it'd be racers, what settings do they typically run on the track?

Of course, in real-world riding you generally don't need to push the limits of your wheel's grip and many riders are quite concerned about dented rims. There could be an argument to be made that having more trust in your wheel to keep traction when suddenly carving and making evasive maneuvers is valuable. That being said, there not only needs to be a certain skill threshold (which involves a decent amount of time and/or risk to develop) to really make use of this, but it can be argued that with conservative/defensive riding these situations are very rare. Perhaps more relevant is with forms of braking assist becoming more common (first on the V13, and then Begode's race modes), the limits of a wheel's braking torque are more accessible than ever. I've heard accounts of people (presumably with a given weight/pressure/height) being able to break traction when braking on the Master, which I feel is a more relevant safety concern. Tire selection/pressure may actually become a real concern beyond "whatever you feel like" for emergency braking when enough wheels capable of braking to the limits of traction are commonplace.

[novazeus]

4 minutes ago, Flygonial said:

Local rider found this out first hand (though with no bad ending). Shinko 244 on EX30 (so a bit less street grip already), 47 psi, and race mode all led to him breaking traction during hard, low-speed acceleration. I'd imagine if anybody would know about loss in grip though it'd be racers, what settings do they typically run on the track?

Of course, in real-world riding you generally don't need to push the limits of your wheel's grip and many riders are quite concerned about dented rims. There could be an argument to be made that having more trust in your wheel to keep traction when suddenly carving and making evasive maneuvers is valuable. That being said, there not only needs to be a certain skill threshold (which involves a decent amount of time and/or risk to develop) to really make use of this, but it can be argued that with conservative/defensive riding these situations are very rare. Perhaps more relevant is with forms of braking assist becoming more common (first on the V13, and then Begode's race modes), the limits of a wheel's braking torque are more accessible than ever. I've heard accounts of people (presumably with a given weight/pressure/height) being able to break traction when braking on the Master, which I feel is a more relevant safety concern. Tire selection/pressure may actually become a real concern beyond "whatever you feel like" for emergency braking when enough wheels capable of braking to the limits of traction are commonplace.

i went down on my brand new one with it's knobby, going thru my pasture gate where the cows have reduced the grass to just sugar sand. sugar sand would require a golf cart tire. so until i deck the gate opening, i'll be pushing the wheel out to the pasture. much smarter and safer. wet leaves are the next worse. i could definitely drop the knobby down to 35 psi or lower if i was always gonna be in my pastures, because the uneven terrain wouldn't allow deflection oscillations because every rotation in the pasture the sidewalls mold to the uneven washboard terrain. i ran my jeep at 25 psi out there for comfort, but would fill the tires back to 38 psi, before going on the hwy.