What's everyone think about the Ustride video?

[UPONIT]

On 8/23/2023 at 7:49 PM, MadVlad said:

I will make it short: most of the improvement happened between the 70s (with the wave of crisis that happened back then) and the 90s when US hit its 2nd highest point following the post WW2 period. Since the late 90s, one could argue since 9/11, we have been on a steady decline that is accelerating, and thats in every metric. Half the cities that were once amazing are now garbage dumps (literally). So no, we havent been improving, not for well over a decade. As a matter of fact: we are in serious trouble.

Spoiler

The news is, by necessity, dark and scary. What happens to most people every day? They go to work, play Little league or video games, have dinner, sleep, etc. If the news covered that, they'd have no viewers. The newsworthy events are sometimes positive--moon landing, heroism--but mostly disasters and bad news.

It's no one's fault. I wouldn't watch a half hour of bake sales. It is just the nature of human attention. But you can't take the news as REAL LIFE 1:1. You should at least read the actual statistics regarding violent crime. It HAS been on a steady decline, with occasional blips. There's no argument to be had. You should at least vary your sources of information. Or don't. Believe what you want.

As for major cities... Fox and certain political parties constantly call them garbage dumps and cess pools. There are problems everywhere, but it isn't even close to the way it is portrayed by motivated parties. I could go to any town, burg or hamlet and find nasty stuff to photograph. I could selectively quote statistics to make things look bad. 

Or I could go out on my deck, or carry a GoPro with me on my next ride around the amazing, beautiful, complex region where I live... and show you the reality. 

I don't need to talk trash about where anyone else lives to feel good about where I live and I don't need to motivate anybody with fear.  If people who influence you are constantly using fear and loathing to motivate you, that's not a good sign.

On 8/23/2023 at 10:13 PM, Planemo said:

'Extreme melodrama' lol. I'd love to know what your label is for something far more serious than my post (joke, seriously, don't bother answering that).

Oh dear. You seem easily triggered. Odd considering your almost pacifistic views.

If you don't agree that extreme left generally refers to descriptors like friendly, tolerant, decent, humane etc and extreme right normally refers to nasty stuff I won't go into, I don't think it's worth bothering to go any further. ATB in continuing to be a fully paid up member of the semantic police.

Spoiler

"Triggered" is such a fad word. Nothing in this discussion has made me feel any strong emotion, so no worries.  I'm curious why you changed what I said and put your words in  quotes. I said "Melodrama at the extremes," which I stand by.

Define "pacifistic." If the antonym is "violent" or "warlike," count me in.

I don't agree with your definitions of Left and Right, because I find a lot of irrationality and destructive behavior at BOTH ends of the spectrum. The middle is where most people live one-on-one. I personally like the words you used to describe the Left, if that is helpful?

Most productive discussions start with agreeing to common definitions of terms. In this case, I'm not even sure what we are disagreeing about? 

I feel like the moderator hammer is about to fall at any moment, so I hid my replies and I'm gonna bow out. Thanks for the discussion, though. Civilization still exists, at least on electricunicycle.org! 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

On 8/23/2023 at 9:54 PM, UPONIT said:

are you aware that violent crimes in the US have been on a steady decline for the last four/five decades?

Where did you get this info?  This info is from the Federal Bureau of Investigations crime data. Anyone telling you otherwise is selecting info on specific crimes. There has been a decline in certain things like arson, so people aren't burning things as much. But overall...

Sorry the data doesn't include the last few years but you just have to watch the news to see where we are headed, Even MSDNC can't hide the truth.

 

 

[onewheelkoregro]

4 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Where did you get this info?  This info is from the Federal Bureau of Investigations crime data. Anyone telling you otherwise is selecting info on specific crimes. There has been a decline in certain things like arson, so people aren't burning things as much. But overall...

Sorry the data doesn't include the last few years but you just have to watch the news to see where we are headed, Even MSDNC can't hide the truth.

 

 

Chart only goes up to 2020 though and we are currently in 2023. Crime is increasing because people have less while the rich continue to demand more and more.

[UPONIT]

11 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Where did you get this info?  This info is from the Federal Bureau of Investigations crime data. Anyone telling you otherwise is selecting info on specific crimes. There has been a decline in certain things like arson, so people aren't burning things as much. But overall...

Sorry the data doesn't include the last few years but you just have to watch the news to see where we are headed, Even MSDNC can't hide the truth.

 

 

Your charts are perfect examples of how data can be presented deceptively. If I show you the data over a longer timespan, will you concede the point then? Or is your reasoning motivated by a preferred conclusion?

[UPONIT]

[UPONIT]

7 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

Chart only goes up to 2020 though and we are currently in 2023. Crime is increasing because people have less while the rich continue to demand more and more.

The chart is cherry picked to keep people scared and angry. Something can rise year over year and still be on a long-term steep decline. This kind of manipulation, coupled with a populace that hasn't been taught to think critically, is the REAL danger to society. 

[MadVlad]

4 hours ago, UPONIT said:

The chart is cherry picked to keep people scared and angry. Something can rise year over year and still be on a long-term steep decline. This kind of manipulation, coupled with a populace that hasn't been taught to think critically, is the REAL danger to society. 

To be fair, most data of this kind tends to be manipulated by various interests in either direction. There is also something else: lets say we are collecting data on theft, 20 years ago lets say 80% of thefts were reported (just as an example, dont know the actual percentage), today there are so many thefts that the police doesnt really do anything about them anymore in most big cities, so people stop reporting them entirely, now, did the thefts go down? Nope, not even close, they went up significantly in the large urban centers, but the statistics might actually show a decline because there are fewer reports. Another one is geography bias. Say murder rates went down significantly in the rural areas, but went up significantly in the urban centers, the stats might show an overall increase or decline, is that a representation of reality? There are a lot of other issues and biases that are often ignored when analyzing complex statistical data. The one thing we cant ignore is walking through a downtown of a city that now looks like a garbage dump, has strung out people laying across the sidewalks, you cant leave your car parked anywhere because its going to get broken into, the stores hide all their merchandise behind plexiglass and chains, banks have brick walls between you and the teller, cops dont ever respond to many of the crimes, used needles everywhere etc etc. Those are the things we see and experience, we know that no data manipulation will make us call this an improvement.

Edited August 27, 2023 by MadVlad

[Freeforester]

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

The chart is cherry picked to keep people scared and angry. Something can rise year over year and still be on a long-term steep decline. This kind of manipulation, coupled with a populace that hasn't been taught to think critically, is the REAL danger to society. 

Some data is also repressed, by those whom it benefits to do so, just saying. Our country’s leading statistician is equally vulnerable to such treatment, see two minute video below. 
 

https://youtu.be/p4jc0dFe3aQ?si=s_O-CvgW1-5L6Tg0

 

Aside all of this, my take on the whole matter is that U-Stride will probably find fewer friends or race challengers with which to participate in such stunts (be they for ‘high stakes’ or no)  with in the future, though not because of his admitted prowess and daring on the streets of the cities where he is recognised.

 

 

 

[UPONIT]

4 hours ago, MadVlad said:

To be fair, most data of this kind tends to be manipulated by various interests in either direction. There is also something else: lets say we are collecting data on theft, 20 years ago lets say 80% of thefts were reported (just as an example, dont know the actual percentage), today there are so many thefts that the police doesnt really do anything about them anymore in most big cities, so people stop reporting them entirely, now, did the thefts go down? Nope, not even close, they went up significantly in the large urban centers, but the statistics might actually show a decline because there are fewer reports. Another one is geography bias. Say murder rates went down significantly in the rural areas, but went up significantly in the urban centers, the stats might show an overall increase or decline, is that a representation of reality? There are a lot of other issues and biases that are often ignored when analyzing complex statistical data. The one thing we cant ignore is walking through a downtown of a city that now looks like a garbage dump, has strung out people laying across the sidewalks, you cant leave your car parked anywhere because its going to get broken into, the stores hide all their merchandise behind plexiglass and chains, banks have brick walls between you and the teller, cops dont ever respond to many of the crimes, used needles everywhere etc etc. Those are the things we see and experience, we know that no data manipulation will make us call this an improvement.

So... when the facts support one's conclusion, they are acceptable. When the facts don't support the conclusion one wants, there are problems with the facts. Statisticians take into account many of the errors and biases of data collection you mention when performing analysis.

Also, also, how many large cities have you walked through personally? Or do you rely on agenda-driven sources?

People have been shouting "The End is Nigh" forever.  Politicians and religious leaders have always used fear to keep people impressionable. (And you are correct. People of ALL political persuasions use manipulative tactics to keep the faithful in line.)

BUT:

In the broadest sense, taking everything into account, and with many asterisks, the world has become a better place over the centuries. Yes, there have been setbacks, peaks, plateaus, and pauses.

But I'd rather be alive now than at any time in history.

You?

Edited August 27, 2023 by UPONIT

[Punxatawneyjoe]

16 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

people have less while the rich continue to demand more and more.

Well this assumption is "the narrative" and false in my opinion. Those mean old rich people, It's funny but the truth is. Those people are funding the jobs, for anyone who actually want's to work. And those people are few and far between.  Just so you know the company that founded Factcheck.org holds 1.9b in Johnson and Johnson stock, so we know where they are coming from.

 

16 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

we are currently in 2023

Yes and the chart you presented only goes up to 2018, the data from 1960 is irrelevant because policing as a whole was not even remotely effective back then. But lets take a look at some recent data. The only recent data covers up to 2 years ago and this is what we see.

• U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2021 was 6.81, a 6.02% increase from 2020.
• U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2020 was 6.42, a 28.78% increase from 2019.
• U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2019 was 4.99, a 1.14% increase from 2018.
• U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2018 was 4.93, a 5.99% decline from 2017

If you think it's gotten better since 2020, i don't know what to say about that. My data is from the actual government website , not from a politically motivated "fact" checking site. The argument is weather crime is on the rise these last few years and the data clearly states it is even though a massive amount of minor crimes aren't even being prosecuted as they were years ago.

[Kekafuch]

 

[onewheelkoregro]

8 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Well this assumption is "the narrative" and false in my opinion. Those mean old rich people, It's funny but the truth is. Those people are funding the jobs, for anyone who actually want's to work. And those people are few and far between.  Just so you know the company that founded Factcheck.org holds 1.9b in Johnson and Johnson stock, so we know where they are coming from.

If Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk alone could end world hunger, poverty, and homelessness 100's of times over. The only reason they don't? Because it wouldn't be profitable. If working hard equated to more money the richest people on the planet would be teachers and construction workers. No one "earns" billions of dollars. They steal it and then convince YOU to work harder so they have more to steal from you.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

11 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

If Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk alone could end world hunger, poverty, and homelessness 100's of times over.

Could you please elaborate on this a bit? How would they go about such a task, what would the financial impact be on them? If they were to start tomorrow, what would the first step be? I am very interested in this, here i thought "world hunger, world poverty and world homelessness was a complex issue involving many different factors. But if 2 rich people can change that, I'm all for it.

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

47 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Could you please elaborate on this a bit? How would they go about such a task, what would the financial impact be on them? If they were to start tomorrow, what would the first step be? I am very interested in this, here i thought "world hunger, world poverty and world homelessness was a complex issue involving many different factors. But if 2 rich people can change that, I'm all for it.

I hate to say it, but I half agree. Elon Musk isn't smart enough to use the vast amount of resources that he acquired for anything other than pumping stocks or keeping his name on top of twitter.  He can't really buy the company that has already ended world hunger and claim to be a founder. 

The world produces enough food to feed everyone.  Elon Musk's secret sauce is his image and his ability to raise capital.  He could pivot from selling cars and shit-posting to investing in public transit and dense sustainable cities with upgraded distribution networks.  For some weird reason people think that he is a tech guy who has a grand plan to save humanity.  I agree the problems of hunger and poverty are complex and vary based on region. The thing is, he doesn't have to ladle out every scoop of soup to a homeless person to make an impactful difference.  He can use his image to champion those causes, find people who are actually experts in the field (something he is actually good at), and he can use his personal wealth to fund those people (something he is not good at).

 

There is enough food in the world right now to feed everyone.

[onewheelkoregro]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Could you please elaborate on this a bit? How would they go about such a task, what would the financial impact be on them? If they were to start tomorrow, what would the first step be? I am very interested in this, here i thought "world hunger, world poverty and world homelessness was a complex issue involving many different factors. But if 2 rich people can change that, I'm all for it.

A quick google search states that homelessness can be ended worldwide for a mere 20 billion. Musk and Bezos are on the track to becoming the world's first ever trillionaires. Do you really believe that they are working billions of times harder than you or I? Elon hasn't invented a single thing his entire life, and Bezos would be nowhere if his mom didn't help him set up Amazon. It's not the fact that they have that much money that is the problem, it is that the system is rewarding people like them instead of showing compassion to people who aren't as "business saavy". The Government grants both of them enormous tax breaks that you and I pay for, when Musk gets paid by the Government to break ground on a new Tesla Plant where do you think the government gets that money from? Our taxes. I would rather them go to things like healthcare, infrastructure, and education instead of rewarding these rich leeches who do nothing but grow fat while I'm over here busting my ass just to die broke.

[onewheelkoregro]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Could you please elaborate on this a bit? How would they go about such a task, what would the financial impact be on them? If they were to start tomorrow, what would the first step be? I am very interested in this, here i thought "world hunger, world poverty and world homelessness was a complex issue involving many different factors. But if 2 rich people can change that, I'm all for it.

USA prior Nixon getting into office Millionaires were taxed at a rate of 90-95% now they are the lowest taxed out of the entire population. It is because money is in politics and is a politician going to vote for our interests or the guys that are handing them hundreds of thousands of dollars?

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

A quick google search states that homelessness can be ended worldwide for a mere 20 billion.

This right here is the problem. Misinformation runs rampant with the google algorithm as well as listening to twidiots on the social medias. Think about it for a second. The estimated number of people who are currently (as of last year) experiencing hunger was 815 million. @ $.43 cents a day per person (estimated low if you ask me)  x 3 meals a day(the average) for 365 days a year for a grand total of $383,742,750,000 usd. So that is for just one year and doesn't include war zones and regimes as our mutual friend Elon Musk himself so cleverly pointed out recently. Our friend also employs over 100,000 people with his company's, That means he is responsible for the average and above average livelihoods of over 100,000 people. Let that sink in for a second. One man is helping over 100,000 people afford to live in today's economy's. Since we are judging people, how many people depend on you for their livelihoods? 1?, 6? ,50? You stated you were going to "die broke" So my guess is 0. Ready for some more factual information, in 2021 our friend Elon paid over $11,000,000,000 in taxes. "Thank you Elon for the 11b in taxes, which is about 10,990,000,00 times more than i will ever pay in my lifetime."

 

2 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

Do you really believe that they are working billions of times harder than you or I?

No, the term "hard work" means more than its physical description. Hard work can mean sitting at a desk using your brain to solve problems. It can mean sticking with a task after 8,9,10 hours that you have already put in that day. It means many things, for me the "hard work" is filling out all that dam paperwork, writing estimates, billing people etc... I would rather "use my hands."

2 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

Elon hasn't invented a single thing his entire life

Pretty sure the Hyperloop is his idea.

2 hours ago, onewheelkoregro said:

I would rather them go to things like healthcare, infrastructure, and education instead of rewarding these rich leeches

Funny you should mention that because he is also the founder of a company called The Boring Company which is an American infrastructure and tunneling service.

 

2 hours ago, noonewantstobepeterchris said:

use his personal wealth to fund those people (something he is not good at).

Some more facts since Elon is the lefts next victim of misinformation, he donates to various charities(people in need) around 4-5 Billion with a b, a year. I think i donated $500 last year.

He's not the next Albert Einstein but seems like a pretty decent person to me. It amazing people can't spot a "railroad job" nowadays i guess or do any "fact checking" due diligence themselves. Who would have ever thought people would be walking around "married" to their electronic devices with little to no awareness of what's happening to the world around them?

Edited August 27, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe
puntuation

[onewheelkoregro]

4 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

This right here is the problem. Misinformation runs rampant with the google algorithm as well as listening to twidiots on the social medias. Think about it for a second. The estimated number of people who are currently (as of last year) experiencing hunger was 815 million. @ $.43 cents a day per person (estimated low if you ask me)  x 3 meals a day(the average) for 365 days a year for a grand total of $383,742,750,000 usd. So that is for just one year and doesn't include war zones and regimes as our mutual friend Elon Musk himself so cleverly pointed out recently. Our friend also employs over 100,000 people with his company's, That means he is responsible for the average and above average livelihoods of over 100,000 people. Let that sink in for a second. One man is helping over 100,000 people afford to live in today's economy's. Since we are judging people, how many people depend on you for their livelihoods? 1?, 6? ,50? You stated you were going to "die broke" So my guess is 0. Ready for some more factual information, in 2021 our friend Elon paid over $11,000,000,000 in taxes. "Thank you Elon for the 11b in taxes, which is about 10,990,000,00 times more than i will ever pay in my lifetime."

If you could include a source that Elon paid even 10,000 in taxes that would be credible. But I guarantee that he and every other Billionaire probably pay less in taxes than you or I.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

12 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

If you could include a source that Elon paid even 10,000 in taxes that would be credible

Private citizens taxes aren't public record, however. Given his reported income in 2021 (which was made public) the most corrupt left leaning news organization on the planet estimated his taxes to be around 12billion. It's safe to assume that if you owe the US federal government 11 billion in taxes and don't pay it, you don't get to walk around a free man in 2023.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe

[sbb]

38 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

It's safe to assume that if you owe the US federal government 11 billion in taxes and don't pay it, you don't get to walk around a free man in 2023.

...unless your name is Hunter or Sharpton.

[UPONIT]

13 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Well this assumption is "the narrative" and false in my opinion. Those mean old rich people, It's funny but the truth is. Those people are funding the jobs, for anyone who actually want's to work. And those people are few and far between.  Just so you know the company that founded Factcheck.org holds 1.9b in Johnson and Johnson stock, so we know where they are coming from.

 

Yes and the chart you presented only goes up to 2018, the data from 1960 is irrelevant because policing as a whole was not even remotely effective back then. But lets take a look at some recent data. The only recent data covers up to 2 years ago and this is what we see.

• U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2021 was 6.81, a 6.02% increase from 2020.
• U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2020 was 6.42, a 28.78% increase from 2019.
• U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2019 was 4.99, a 1.14% increase from 2018.
• U.S. crime rate & statistics for 2018 was 4.93, a 5.99% decline from 2017

If you think it's gotten better since 2020, i don't know what to say about that. My data is from the actual government website , not from a politically motivated "fact" checking site. The argument is weather crime is on the rise these last few years and the data clearly states it is even though a massive amount of minor crimes aren't even being prosecuted as they were years ago.

Nothing you say changes the facts we all agree on: violent crime is at its lowest rate since the 1960's and has been on a steadily downward trend since the 1990s. There will be small setbacks and plateaus, but crime is trending downwards, longterm, not upwards. I used the first reliable chart I found that demonstrates my point. If I spent more time finding one that covers the last 5 years, it would still support my point. The only thing that would change is the amount of time I spent presenting evidence that would also be rejected because of some other easily disprovable talking point. 

Why do you want the crime statistics to NOT be true? Ask yourself. Shouldn't we be happy to find out that we thought something terrible about our country and it turned out not to be true? It is impossible to change someone's beliefs if they are not open to having their beliefs changed. Clearly, no amount of factual evidence can sway your opinion about even this one, single, portion of the discussion. 

One thing we can agree on: I respect, enjoy and learn from your EUC-related posts, and look forward to many more of them. Thanks!

[noonewantstobepeterchris]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Some more facts since Elon is the lefts next victim of misinformation, he donates to various charities(people in need) around 4-5 Billion with a b, a year. I think i donated $500 last year.

He's not the next Albert Einstein but seems like a pretty decent person to me. It amazing people can't spot a "railroad job" nowadays i guess or do any "fact checking" due diligence themselves. Who would have ever thought people would be walking around "married" to their electronic devices with little to no awareness of what's happening to the world around them?

I agree, we shouldn't just think someone is pretty decent person, or vilify them without a modicum of investigation. I am so glad you mention that he has "donated to charity"! 

• What foundation did he "donate" to?  Him donating to his own charity (the Musk Foundation) sure doesn't sound like someone else.
• Where did the foundation pledge the money?  I mean, Tesla, Space-X, and Neuralink sound a lot like business interests of Elon Musk and not people in need.
• What grants has the foundation actually written yet?  I see a little bit for Flint Michigan.  I see orders of magnitude more for Vanguard Charities and his brother........

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

38 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

I respect, enjoy and learn from your EUC-related posts, and look forward to many more of them. Thanks!

I enjoy yours as well. Agreed..

[alcatraz]

On 8/24/2023 at 4:16 AM, onewheelkoregro said:

Well generally "conservatism" is synonymous with authoritarianism because what they are "conserving" is old values that don't necessarily translate to today. Being from another country and traveling around the world I have found Authoritarianism to be a western phenomenon that has taken hold in South Korea. But to each their own. The more you try to control people they more the rebel. Anyone with kids will tell you that

I think you are making my point. 

People on the left look to the government for solving problems. The government can only do so by coercion. That's the authoritarianism you fear. Both sides are guilty of such things but it's accepted in ideology on the left. Liberalism used to be a left thing, not anymore. Conservatists, although reluctantly, also expand government but usually on a smaller local level where they're closer to the problem and to the people funding it. Then the politicians are better held responsible, and poor programs can get canceled easier. For the strongest economy and greatest wealth production and job creation, libertarianism always wins. Should help with legalizing eucs too. I wonder why it isn't more popular.

[sbb]

12 hours ago, alcatraz said:

I wonder why it isn't more popular.

I've seen it tends to be more popular where people aren't stacked on top of each other like a pallet of canned goods, whereas places where people live in compressed hell-holes with strangers on all sides, and above, and below, tend to demand more govt micromanagement of every aspect of everyone else.

As a trend, not an absolute.