my gamble for 2023 into early 2024 ...

[bpong]

y'all;

2023, year of the reviewers, marketing hype, and meeting customer expectations...

the riding season of 2023 is just started for those in the upper half of the northern hemisphere.

as i see it, early 2023 brought to the attention of the euc community the veteran Patton.
most reviewers are giving this euc positive remarks on its performance and design. social
media is dominated by alot of postings about the veteran Patton.  and by reading the euc
blogs about the Patton,  alot of riders have put deposits down on this particular euc.

i have to ask myself this question:  why purchase a Patton when there are 3 more major manufacturers
who may or may not (kingsong has the S19 but i dont know if it could be considered a
competitor to the Patton) have new euc models before or by the end of the 2023 riding season ?
better still, why purchase a Patton without having other NEW models to compare it to ?

i do not doubt that inmotion, gotway-begode, and kingsong will be offering new models.
it may not happen at all during 2023; it may happen at the beginning of 2024.

IMO, has all the marketing hype, and reviewer remarks and videos, helped to create an atmosphere
of "must have it".   reviewer videos are a practical way to find out about any euc model.
im aware that the videos also serve another purpose - to
make money (for the reviewer) by leveraging video marketing and continued support of their
video marketing campaign.  definitely nothing wrong with that, but its now not just the retail
store that is selling to me,  its also the reviewers being part of that world too.  it puts
alot more pressure on me, a viewer of social media content.

IMO the Patton represents a change in the direction of euc design.  veteran is trying to offer
an euc that has more customer appeal (quality build, quality suspension, high performance on and
off-road).  to that i compliment veteran and say WELL DONE (god rays with heavenly music).

but i also see veterans Patton as a new benchmark for kingsong, inmotion and gotway-begode to
try to meet and surpass in their future euc models.

i was thinking of getting a new euc this season.  i saw all the vids (and still new ones being
posted as i write this topic) and read all the blog entries.  i was thinking of making a deposit
on a Patton.  and then one evening (after hanging out at an euc store) i think, ... "STOP" !!!!!

if the Patton represents a new direction in euc design that the other manufacturers now must meet
and possibly surpass,  why dont i wait and see what goes down for the next several months ?!?!

i would hate to purchase a Patton this year and find by the end of 2023 to the beginning of 2024,
that the other manufacturers come out with the same or better eucs,  for the same or cheaper price !!!
i only have myself to blame for not exercising patience in my quest for a great euc.

do not misunderstand my posting - if you will or already own a Patton,  good for you !!! you have
a great euc !!!  im just trying to point out that because of the Patton, inmotion, kingsong, and
gotway-begode will now have to play "catch up" if they want to continue to be a major player in the euc
industry.

IMO 2023 (into early 2024) is going to be a great year for new euc customers.  but i will have to
have enough patience to see it unfold.  im hoping i wont be disappointed.  if nothing becomes of
the wait,  i will still have access to the 2nd or possibly 3rd batch of the Patton !

YEEEEEE HAAAAA !!!!

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

23 minutes ago, bpong said:

i also see veterans Patton as a new benchmark for kingsong, inmotion and gotway-begode to
try to meet and surpass in their future euc models.

Your kidding right?

[Funky]

6 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Your kidding right?

If 90lbs 16" is the future - i just wanna die right now.. Next wheel will be what? 150lbs 18/20"? Seeing how stupid the market is, i would not be surprised.  

 

 

On topic: Or you can simply buy the Fatton now and resell it later, if you find something "better". 

I would do that to my 18xl - when ever i see something better. (Yeah Fatton is great wheel. I just wish it was 20lbs lighter.. I have no use for 90lbs wheels.)

 

Each one has their ideal wheel in mind - One goes for speed. One go for torque. One go for big wheel diameter for long distance travel. One goes for small light/compact euc for small errands.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Funky

[bpong]

2 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Your kidding right?

Punxatawneyjoe,  im not kidding but, you must know that i make that statement cause of my viewing of the various review vids and some information from this blog.  im not a test rider for any brand name,  its just my opinion.  i only have 1.5 seasons on a V8, and 4 seasons on an old tesla V2.  so i also want a new euc too obviously....

sure, the Patton is abit heavy.  and its range is abit limited.  but it does have a rugged build and body somewhat.  and the motor performance looks amazing.  i have seen riders in group rides using the V13 and these riders are not 6ft tall, body builders.  and they ride effortlessly on that heavy machine.

so, its just my opinion P., and im not kidding based on what ive seen and read.  i did finally did get to see the Patton (unfortunately without the battery packs) and it really does look rugged.  and its drive wheel is well, small by comparison to other current available eucs.

wish you the best for the 2023 riding season !!!

[bpong]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

If 90lbs 16" is the future - i just wanna die right now.. Next wheel will be what? 150lbs 18/20"? Seeing how stupid the market is, i would not be surprised.  

.........

Each one has their ideal wheel in mind - One goes for speed. One go for torque. One go for big wheel diameter for long distance travel. One goes for small light/compact euc for small errands.

well said, and i agree the market can be stupid.

IMO, its the never ending review videos,  the posted topics of various euc models;  they all serve to try to sway customers to purchase some euc regardless of whether or not practical thinking comes into play.  thats why i had to step back and stop listening to all this marketing hype on social media....

coming from a mere 45lb old tech wheel,  i did manage to briefly try out some current eucs - V12, V11, S22 (orig), RS19 HS, ... and yes,  they are abit heavier and i need to practice using pads (as mentioned in a prev topic...)  so im expecting to eventually have another euc that will be in the broad weight range of 70-90lbs.  im also currently eyeing the T4 but im still afraid of its teething problems...

i do however agree 100% about what you say about each rider having their own ideal wheel in mind.... unfortunately,  it will always most likely be a case of compromise for a rider unless their list of prerequisites matches what the manufacturer has created.  if that day happens for me,  i will hit the casino (aside from purchasing that euc)

take care riding this 2023 season !!!

 

[Stevebee]

I think with the frequency of new wheel releases now there will always be ‘a flavour of the month’ and I agree probably best to buy, enjoy, sell on if you want the next best thing when it inevitably comes along. At least you’ll be enjoying the wheel you want at the cost of the loss in sale price. 
My first wheel was the V11, 59lbs, which I thought was heavy at the time. After only 250 miles I upgraded to a Sherman S at almost 100lbs. Now the V11 feels light, agile and nimble. Was going to sell the V11 but now not so sure. I’m only riding at 20 to 25mph, my range is normally 10 to 15 miles and am beginning to think that the V11 fits my needs better. Easier to mount and manoeuvre and get in and out of a car. The big difference is the Sherman’s ace, the suspension. I thought the V11 felt good until the Sherman. Despite this, I am now considering the unthinkable, selling the Sherman S and keeping the V11, as it ticks more boxes for my use case. I can now understand why a number of riders can find the heavy wheels more of an issue and I wouldn’t put the V11 in the light category but by todays standards it is

[alcatraz]

I'm waiting for 16in 1200Wh Samsung 50S 134v at ~22kg. 

[alcatraz]

Or 1650Wh with 18650 cells. Better even.

[techyiam]

On 5/17/2023 at 11:20 PM, Stevebee said:

After only 250 miles I upgraded to a Sherman S at almost 100lbs. Now the V11 feels light, agile and nimble. Was going to sell the V11 but now not so sure. I’m only riding at 20 to 25mph, my range is normally 10 to 15 miles and am beginning to think that the V11 fits my needs better. Easier to mount and manoeuvre and get in and out of a car. The big difference is the Sherman’s ace, the suspension. I thought the V11 felt good until the Sherman. Despite this, I am now considering the unthinkable, selling the Sherman S and keeping the V11, as it ticks more boxes for my use case.

Logically, your current view, on hindsight, is reasonable. 

Your use case is somewhat modest, and yet you chose to get a 3600Wh wheel, and only after 250 miles of electric wheel experience.

It isn't right or wrong. It is more like that it wasn't surprising that you would find the Sherman-S more wheel than what you can use. And the tradeoffs are not as favorable as you had hoped.

On top of that your V11 does indeed seem like it would fulfill your needs.

Hence, you are in a good position to wait it out. There are two reasons for this:

(1) As you gain experience and develop your skills further, you will find bigger wheels will not take as much effort and concentration to ride, or to adapt to.

(2) Wheels are always getting better. 

So logically, there is no reason to rush into buying a new wheel in your case.

However, the truth is harder to face and to follow.

It not uncommon for riders to keep buying new wheels. 

Many of us are constantly looking for the latest and greatest wheel. So, it doesn't take much to end buying another wheel. 

And another symptom of many riders is that we are frequently wanting to believe that there is at least one of the just released wheels that will be better than the wheels that we already own.

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by techyiam

[Stevebee]

33 minutes ago, techyiam said:

 

So logically, there is no reason to rush into buying a new wheel in your case..

 

Not looking for a new wheel… my decision/ dilemma is whether to sell the Sherman - and would I end up regretting it if I did. As you said the V11 fits my current needs well but with more experience would I want more

[SiViG]

27 minutes ago, Stevebee said:

Not looking for a new wheel… my decision/ dilemma is whether to sell the Sherman - and would I end up regretting it if I did. As you said the V11 fits my current needs well but with more experience would I want more

Uhh, depends on you

I did ride only the V8 and V11, and most of the time, V8 suits my needs better. Yes, the suspension and speed is nice to have, but my commutes are mostly within range of the V8, and it's more convenient to, for example, do shopping or ride public transport, loading it to the trunk of a vehicle is way easier. But with speed the risks of falling and damaging my body rise, and I'm no longer 18, I'm more than twice that, wouldn't want a debilitating injury to live with for the rest of my life. I dream of riding a faster EUC a few times, but I just don't see myself constantly riding more than 50kph, and that speed will probably fall to even lower as I age.

But still, you do you

[Funky]

I personally don't even look at those top notch wheels - simply because i don't need those speeds/range they offer and their weight is a deal breaker for me. Sure it is great to have extra speed and range, but if wheel weights over 65lbs.. It simply isn't worth it for me. Extra weight and extra cost..

Luckily i bought my first wheel - that match all my needs. Perfect wheel size and speed to power to weight performance. And i don't plan upgrading anytime soon. (Or at least till they make something better in same weight class.)

As said before.. Everyone has their own needs. And everyone needs are different. Only the user can decide what is best for themselves.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Stevebee said:

well but with more experience would I want more

I think it is much too early to tell since you are so new.

When you first started, did you have a goal in mind as to what you wanted to be able to do with your electric wheel ultimately? 

Also, why did you decide to upgrade, and so soon?

And why a 3600 Wh wheel?

If you did not have a lofty goal to start with, it doesn't make sense that you end up buying a Sherman-S. 

Since you can already can ride the V11, it may not not take that many months to become comfortable with the Sherman-S, especially if you are not a small person, and have a background in balancing sports.

Sherman-S is a popular wheel, many experience riders will not find it particularly difficult to ride or to maneuver on it.

Personally, if I didn't needed the range or top speed of the Sherman-S, I would get the Patton over the Sherman-S. The reason is because the Patton is a easy wheel to ride, and is more fun to ride as well. Additionally, even though the Patton is not a flagship wheel, it is a well built wheel, and has PWM tiltback.

But the Sherman-S is still a very nice wheel. 

I don't consider you to be in a bad position, IMO.

I believe either option of selling, or not selling the Sherman-S should be fine, and will work out in the end.

Edited May 18, 2023 by techyiam

[bpong]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

...

Personally, if I didn't needed the range or top speed of the Sherman-S, I would get the Patton over the Sherman-S. The reason is because the Patton is a easy wheel to ride, and is more fun to ride as well. Additionally, even though the Patton is not a flagship wheel, it is a well built wheel, and has PWM tiltback.

...

hey !, i didnt know it has PWM tiltback !!!

really ?  is it the same as what was the user named Freestyler wrote and was offering to interested riders ?

bp

[Clem604]

11 hours ago, Stevebee said:

I think with the frequency of new wheel releases now there will always be ‘a flavour of the month’ and I agree probably best to buy, enjoy, sell on if you want the next best thing when it inevitably comes along. At least you’ll be enjoying the wheel you want at the cost of the loss in sale price. 
My first wheel was the V11, 59lbs, which I thought was heavy at the time. After only 250 miles I upgraded to a Sherman S at almost 100lbs. Now the V11 feels light, agile and nimble. Was going to sell the V11 but now not so sure. I’m only riding at 20 to 25mph, my range is normally 10 to 15 miles and am beginning to think that the V11 fits my needs better. Easier to mount and manoeuvre and get in and out of a car. The big difference is the Sherman’s ace, the suspension. I thought the V11 felt good until the Sherman. Despite this, I am now considering the unthinkable, selling the Sherman S and keeping the V11, as it ticks more boxes for my use case. I can now understand why a number of riders can find the heavy wheels more of an issue and I wouldn’t put the V11 in the light category but by todays standards it is

I've also started on a V11 and I would suggest putting in more time on the Sherman S before making that decision. It took me about 500 miles (800km's) to fully acclimate to the wheel. Now I ride the Sherman just as easily as my V11 and I actually prefer it. As for nimbleness and agility I think its very similar to the V11 albeit I have a Michelin street tire on mine and it makes a lot of difference with this compared to the Kenda knobby.

[mrelwood]

20 hours ago, bpong said:

why purchase a Patton without having other NEW models to compare it to ?

Because the Patton is available now. If you wait for the S19 or the V14, you’ll be riding with your current wheel through this summer. The Patton can be (or should be able to be) bought for this riding season.

Your dilemma is the same as we’ve seen in all tech for decades: Why buy now when there’s even better around the corner? Because that’s how it will always be! If you’ll wait for the next best thing, you will never make a purchase.

 It sounds like you might think of the V11 as a mediocre wheel for non-advanced riders, pushing you to upgrade to a ”better“ one. I can tell you that it’s not mediocre! I have ridden 34’000 km in total, and the V11 is currently still the best wheel for me. It has many very useful features that the Sherman (and Patton) lack. Don’t think of the V11 as a mere stepping stone. Your first wheel was already very capable. Smart choice!

Not everyone wishes to ride 150km trips at 100km/h. In fact, very very few do. This forum gives a very twisted image on which wheels most people use. EUC World data says that the most used wheels in ‘22 were S18 and V11. And few people ever go faster than 50km/h. I never do, and never will.

[Stevebee]

Agree wrt the V11. I’ve seen some info that shows it’s the most owned wheel on here although you’d never guess from the posts.

I thinks it’s positives are suspension (simple but works), best lights, kill switch, good trolly handle, manageable weight, good when shopping and speed and range adequate for most (excluding what I affectionately call ‘speed demons’).

[2disbetter]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Because the Patton is available now. If you wait for the S19 or the V14, you’ll be riding with your current wheel through this summer. The Patton can be (or should be able to be) bought for this riding season.

I just tried ordering one and was told that it was going to be around 3-4 months to get a Patton. 

[bpong]

1 hour ago, 2disbetter said:

I just tried ordering one and was told that it was going to be around 3-4 months to get a Patton. 

2disbetter,

perhaps this is a blessing in disguise.  the time you spend waiting to get your Patton,  something else may come up that may change your mind...

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, bpong said:

perhaps this is a blessing in disguise.  the time you spend waiting to get your Patton,  something else may come up that may change your mind...

This is true up to a point. For newer riders, waiting is actually not a bad thing.

Having said that, new and exciting wheels are always on the horizon. 

@bpong as for your use case of riding in Downtown T.O. traffic, and you have been riding for years on a Tesla V2 (T2), the Patton could be a top choice. I ride a T3, and I would say a Patton would be many folds better than riding a T3 on main roads in traffic.

Mind you, I would speculate that the Commander Mini, and Extreme may be better too. But in the back of my mind, waterproofing, reliability, durability, and build quality will always be a concern. 

I think the Inmotion Adventure could be interesting though.

With how good the Patton is, and what it is priced at, I don't believe the S22 Pro and S19 are a big deal anymore. Incidentally, the Patton doesn't ride like a big heavy wheel. 

But if you are waiting for a big heavy wheel, then waiting for the next round of new releases may be necessary if the current ones are not in your interest. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by techyiam

[Hellkitten]

On 5/17/2023 at 7:15 PM, bpong said:

i did finally did get to see the Patton (unfortunately without the battery packs)

It does now. Battery packs arrived Monday…….. go try it out. 

[Rollin-on-1]

15 hours ago, alcatraz said:

I'm waiting for 16in 1200Wh Samsung 50S 134v at ~22kg. 

Get comfy...you may be waiting a while.  But I'd be interested in that wheel as well if it had good suspension.

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

It does now. Battery packs arrived Monday…….. go try it out. 

That's good news.

@bpong If possible, try out with the 66 lbs spring, otherwise wheel control may seem lacking (unless you are a very lightweight rider).

Edited May 19, 2023 by techyiam

[techyiam]

12 hours ago, bpong said:

hey !, i didnt know it has PWM tiltback !!!

Time-stamped.

 

[alcatraz]

On 5/19/2023 at 8:28 AM, Rollin-on-1 said:

Get comfy...you may be waiting a while.  But I'd be interested in that wheel as well if it had good suspension.

Oh, I'm real comfy. 😁