my gamble for 2023 into early 2024 ...

[bpong]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:13 PM, techyiam said:

...

@bpong as for your use case of riding in Downtown T.O. traffic, and you have been riding for years on a Tesla V2 (T2), the Patton could be a top choice. I ride a T3, and I would say a Patton would be many folds better than riding a T3 on main roads in traffic.

Mind you, I would speculate that the Commander Mini, and Extreme may be better too. But in the back of my mind, waterproofing, reliability, durability, and build quality will always be a concern. 

I think the Inmotion Adventure could be interesting though.

...

i saw the Patton and T4 this afternoon.  did not ride either... i may in a few more weeks.  i just wanted to see them side by side.

T4 is of course lighter, and a tiny bit lower than the Patton.  it is also roughly like a mini master.  its nicely appointed with the spiked pedals but the demo has no body work (which i dont like either way) and instead had some plastic side cases to allow velcro loops to be mounted.  the version3 of the T4 is roughly 3300$ cad.  i certainly hope that by the 3rd revision, begode got some of the problems ironed out of the T4...

the Patton is well, what everyone else is describing - ruggedly built, well appointed with lift handles and their version of toe pads.  its abit heavy for my small stature, and its priced around 4200$ cad (this is smartwheels price...)

the burning question for me is whether or not the Patton is really worth 1000$ more than a T4.  i mainly ride on city streets with and beside traffic,  and i dont do trail riding (although i may try it just for the hell of it one of these days).  techyiam points out the Patton is many folds better than riding a T3 and he is right up to a certain point.  my riding experience is only on a T2 and either T4 or Patton will certainly represent a significant change in riding sensation and experience.  as for ease of ownership, i think for break down, the T4 will be easier than a Patton judging from the russian break down vids.

i will still wait to see what happens this riding season, but currently i have no model which im leaning towards.  the T4 though (for me),  is a compelling choice over the Patton given that i dont know really if the Pattons price diff is justifiable for my kind of commuting use.  if i were leaning more towards an equal mix of trail/off road, and street riding then the Pattons higher price is definitely justifiable IMO.

let the parade of debutantes continue this riding season of 2023 !!!  i just saw the very short topic on the inmotion adventure,  which could turn out to be a parody of lagging industrial design or another major model release and competitor in the line up of 2023 eucs !

 

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, bpong said:

the T4 though (for me),  is a compelling choice over the Patton

Have you read through the T4 forum thread?

[bpong]

mrelwood,

yes, ive read only abit.  but that bit was not very optimistic and it seems that even the 2nd batch did not have any improvements other than a change in the pedals.  on paper it looks good (like all other eucs) but in use not so good.  thats why im still in the air and waiting to see what comes of this riding season.  as well i suspect the pedal change is a gimmick to increase its saleability...

Edited May 21, 2023 by bpong

[techyiam]

17 hours ago, bpong said:

the burning question for me is whether or not the Patton is really worth 1000$ more than a T4.  i mainly ride on city streets with and beside traffic,  and i dont do trail riding (although i may try it just for the hell of it one of these days).  techyiam points out the Patton is many folds better than riding a T3 and he is right up to a certain point.

I am sensing that we are not on the same page. You have been riding your T2 in downtown T.O. traffic for a number of years. And you have been fine with that.

I think for most riders, when we say we are riding in downtown traffic, we are no longer riding like a bicyclist. It is more like riding the best combination of both a cyclist and a motorcyclist. 

Since you have been riding a T2, you must have been riding your wheel like a cyclist on a bicycle. 

If this is the case, there are many options open to you, both old and new models, since the technical specs of your T2 is modest.

 

But if you restrict your next wheel to a suspension wheel, then the T4 is the obvious choice if your criterion is the lowest price.

Scratch that. If your modest demands remain, right now smartwheels.ca is having a flash sale on the S18 for $2300 CAD.

Actually, the V11 could also work for you for $2900 CAD. The T4 is going for $3000 CAD currently.

 

Outside of that, than it is a whole different ball of wax, and it depends largely on you.

Regarding Patton's weight, I saw Christine (2Cell1Pack) rode the Patton around a very tight track with a competitive lap time, and looked comfortable and in control, all the while. She even jumped off a ramp. Albert had said in one of their videos that she weighs 95 lbs.

With regards to DIY maintenance, 2Cell1Pack has a video out showing what is involved in a tire change on the Patton.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by techyiam

[LeGiroquoi]

On 5/18/2023 at 1:42 PM, mrelwood said:

 

Not everyone wishes to ride 150km trips at 100km/h. In fact, very very few do. This forum gives a very twisted image on which wheels most people use. EUC World data says that the most used wheels in ‘22 were S18 and V11. And few people ever go faster than 50km/h. I never do, and never will.

Very well said.. I never ride over 50kmh. All my rides are between 35-45 max. Which is more than enough for something I bout to replace my bike while not having to use a scooter, which I really dislike..

And I think there's many, many riders in our situation. Unfortunately they don't do NY style videos but it's a shame, as the constructors seem to listen only to them...

My 6 kids ride, and never will I be at ease to give them a 100 pounds wheels that can send them speeding !

[2disbetter]

On 5/19/2023 at 12:36 AM, bpong said:

perhaps this is a blessing in disguise.  the time you spend waiting to get your Patton,  something else may come up that may change your mind...

Maybe. I think I just decided that what I have is enough. I have the V13 for speed and the V12 HT for practicality. 

[techyiam]

1 minute ago, 2disbetter said:

Maybe. I think I just decided that what I have is enough. I have the V13 for speed and the V12 HT for practicality. 

+1.

If you are happy with your V12, then the Patton isn't a wheel you really need.

[2disbetter]

51 minutes ago, techyiam said:

If you are happy with your V12, then the Patton isn't a wheel you really need.

The issue is this: I really like the Patton. It seems like a smaller wheel with all the amenities of the larger wheels. However, the issue with that is the speed. It will tempt me to go fast as well, and then I have 2 fast wheels. No real justification for that. I would be lying if I also didn't admit that the I like the fit and finish of Inmotion wheels that I have. The display is something I would like to see in other brands. 

Plus, the practicality is hard to beat. I know of no other wheel with as many features that matter in that size and that weight. Being able to pick the wheel up with one hand is also just something that is really convenient. The lack of suspension here means that I will ride more carefully. As a commuting wheel for work this is important. The temptation to go faster will also be there, especially after I have not had any issues for a while. I also like the sound the wheel makes when accelerating and stopping. I wish that was something that would have followed in the V13. 

Edited May 23, 2023 by 2disbetter

[techyiam]

18 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

However, the issue with that is the speed. It will tempt me to go fast as well, and then I have 2 fast wheels. No real justification for that. I would buying lying if I also didn't admit that the I like the fit and finish of Inmotion wheels that I have. The display is something I would like to see in other brands. 

The Patton isn't really a fast wheel like the V13. But you can surely go faster than the V12 in more comfort.

Where do you ride on your V13? Are you riding on roads, like a motorcyclist, or like a bicyclist on the side, or in a bike lane?

The Patton is a well built wheel. For example, the battery boxes are made from structural aluminum alloy 7071, an alloy with the same mechanical properties as the 7075. And the wall thickness is thick. Compare it to that of the S22 and you will know what I mean. Plus the structure formed is reinforced strategically. 

And the Patton has the all important pwm-tiltback.

 

18 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

I wish that was something that would have followed in the V13.

There will be an Inmotion Adventure, and a 20" V13 coming.

Edited May 23, 2023 by techyiam

[2disbetter]

16 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Where do you ride on your V13? Are you riding on roads, like a motorcyclist, or like a bicyclist on the side, or in a bike lane?

If there is a cycle lane I am on it. But most of the time there isn't one. So I am on the road. Keeping up with 50-70 kph traffic is not hard, and the wheel rides in a way that I feel confident doing it. But after the accident, I really don't feel comfortable doing that anymore. 

On the other hand the sheer torque of the V12 HT was just really fun. Top end didn't matter as much because you feel like you are flying already at 50 kph. 

The build quality of the Patton is great. I really do appreciate that. Maybe I'll still get one. 

[techyiam]

1 minute ago, 2disbetter said:

If there is a cycle lane I am on it. But most of the time there isn't one. So I am on the road. Keeping up with 50-70 kph traffic is not hard, and the wheel rides in a way that I feel confident doing it.

If you are doing this, I believe the V13 is already the right wheel for the job. I don't think the Patton is the wheel for that.

Then perhaps the Patton could be a good fit between the V13 and the V12 HT for you.

[alcatraz]

17 minutes ago, 2disbetter said:

If there is a cycle lane I am on it. But most of the time there isn't one. So I am on the road. Keeping up with 50-70 kph traffic is not hard, and the wheel rides in a way that I feel confident doing it. But after the accident, I really don't feel comfortable doing that anymore. 

On the other hand the sheer torque of the V12 HT was just really fun. Top end didn't matter as much because you feel like you are flying already at 50 kph. 

The build quality of the Patton is great. I really do appreciate that. Maybe I'll still get one. 

Any new wheel needs to regain your trust before you can relax on it.

What I like about the patton is that you'll likely be able to stop "on a dime" sort of speak. But reading your crash report, you might not need that. Still, it's not a bad thing to have.

Lower your speed and ride safely and you can in time build trust in a wheel again.  

A V13 would likely be wasted on me because I wouldn't use the speed it's capable of. If you want to ride at 50km/h then get a wheel that'll do 80 free spin and you should be ok. Anything heavier is more or less just dead weight (unless you want to do 50km/h at low battery)

To give you peace of mind, you might want to reduce that max speed to 40km/h and just go faster for shorter bursts to get past dangerous roads where there's fast moving traffic. The less time you spend at the higher speeds, the greater your chances are.

Not saying that 40 is safe, but hell it's still a lot faster than riding a bike or walking.

[2disbetter]

10 minutes ago, alcatraz said:

To give you peace of mind, you might want to reduce that max speed to 40km/h and just go faster for shorter bursts to get past dangerous roads where there's fast moving traffic. The less time you spend at the higher speeds, the greater your chances are.

Not saying that 40 is safe, but hell it's still a lot faster than riding a bike or walking.

This is kind of where I am in my own mindset. Speed is fun to have and to occasionally use, but each time you do, you are taking a big risk. 

I wanted the V13 to be my only wheel, but for commuting to work and all it is just too big and heavy. I can MAKE it work, but not when there is a V12 just sitting there. 

[DewayneD]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:27 AM, bpong said:

well said, and i agree the market can be stupid.

IMO, its the never ending review videos,  the posted topics of various euc models;  they all serve to try to sway customers to purchase some euc regardless of whether or not practical thinking comes into play.  thats why i had to step back and stop listening to all this marketing hype on social media....

coming from a mere 45lb old tech wheel,  i did manage to briefly try out some current eucs - V12, V11, S22 (orig), RS19 HS, ... and yes,  they are abit heavier and i need to practice using pads (as mentioned in a prev topic...)  so im expecting to eventually have another euc that will be in the broad weight range of 70-90lbs.  im also currently eyeing the T4 but im still afraid of its teething problems...

i do however agree 100% about what you say about each rider having their own ideal wheel in mind.... unfortunately,  it will always most likely be a case of compromise for a rider unless their list of prerequisites matches what the manufacturer has created.  if that day happens for me,  i will hit the casino (aside from purchasing that euc)

take care riding this 2023 season !!!

 

Good point!  Weight and handling are definitely important factors to consider, especially when transitioning from older models to newer, heavier ones.

[DewayneD]

On 5/18/2023 at 2:27 AM, bpong said:

well said, and i agree the market can be stupid.

IMO, its the never ending review videos,  the posted topics of various euc models;  they all serve to try to sway customers to purchase some euc regardless of whether or not practical thinking comes into play.  thats why i had to step back and stop listening to all this marketing hype on social media....

coming from a mere 45lb old tech wheel,  i did manage to briefly try out some current eucs - V12, V11, S22 (orig), RS19 HS, ... and yes,  they are abit heavier and i need to practice using pads (as mentioned in a prev topic...)  so im expecting to eventually have another euc that will be in the broad weight range of 70-90lbs.  im also currently eyeing the T4 but im still afraid of its teething problems...

i do however agree 100% about what you say about each rider having their own ideal wheel in mind.... unfortunately,  it will always most likely be a case of compromise for a rider unless their list of prerequisites matches what the manufacturer has created.  if that day happens for me,  i will hit the casino (aside from purchasing that euc) Speaking of casinos, if you're up for some extra excitement, check out the sign up bonus casino bangladesh at casinosanalyzer - it can add some thrills to your trip. 

take care riding this 2023 season !!!

 

As for the marketing hype, it is indeed a problem. At the moment, everything is just oversaturated with advertising of all kinds, and all this.