Commander batteries not working in RS19

[SeanB]

i recently got replacement battery packs for my RS19 from a dead commander. I assumed the packs would work since they are 100.8v, 900wh, and still made by begode. They are Samsung 50e cells. I plugged them into my Rs and they will not charge. The charger stops and turns red, and the wheel (or bms) beeps. However, the wheel does turn on and operate with the batteries installed. 

Any ideas what might be wrong? I'm thinking there might be slightly different wiring between this pack and the OG RS packs. I'm open to all options. 

[Chriull]

6 hours ago, SeanB said:

i recently got replacement battery packs for my RS19 from a dead commander. I assumed the packs would work since they are 100.8v, 900wh, and still made by begode. They are Samsung 50e cells. I plugged them into my Rs and they will not charge. The charger stops and turns red,

Red means the the charger is charging. It turns green once charging current is below some certain threshold and once charging stopped completely.

6 hours ago, SeanB said:

and the wheel (or bms) beeps.

Afaik begode bms do not beep? Just ewheels litech battery packs have an (?external?) beeper.

I did not find any actual begode beep code list. Just one from 2017...

 

6 hours ago, SeanB said:

However, the wheel does turn on and operate with the batteries installed. 

 

6 hours ago, SeanB said:

Any ideas what might be wrong? I'm thinking there might be slightly different wiring between this pack and the OG RS packs. I'm open to all options. 

Afair connectors/wiring changed once with the 900Wh packs?

@RagingGrandpais much more into begode bms/battery packs! Maybe he can help?

[alcatraz]

Maybe one of the packs is bad. Try charging them individually for a few minutes (disconnect one).

Also, are the connectors different?

How did you establish that it won't charge despite the light being red? Usually the light turns green when packs reject the charge. Maybe you're talking about an aftermarket charger?

[SeanB]

Thanks for the help guys. My original post has a typo - The charger turns red for a second and then turns green and stops charging. 

I tried charging the packs separately and they both operate the same way. They won't charge but will run the wheel 

The only key difference I can find is the 4 pin comm cable coming out of the batteries -- it only has 1 wire, whereas the RS end of the wire uses all 4 wires.  

[RagingGrandpa]

Well, what was wrong with the Commander that the packs came from?

If you have only one pack connected to only the XT30 charging port, and everything else disconnected, that one pack should recharge normally. Confirm this for each pack. 

Photos would help us...

 

27 minutes ago, SeanB said:

the 4 pin comm cable coming out of the batteries -- it only has 1 wire, whereas the RS end of the wire uses all 4 wires.  

That's expected. This connection is only between the two packs, and no other systems in the EUC are involved. If those two packs worked together in the Commander, they will work just the same in any other environment. 

[SeanB]

The Commander was in a crash that broke the motor. Visually the batteries look to be undamaged and have only 300 miles on them. Both batteries function the same way so I doubt my issues are from damaged batteries or a damaged BMS. 

Here is one battery inserted into my RS. All 3 cables are attached as they should be like the OG batteries. 

XT60 to XT60, XT30 to XT30, and the 4pin to 4 pin. I see the 4 pin seems to only link the batteries and doesn't lead to the motherboard. Everything is accurately linked to the power button, charge ports, and motherboard.

Here are the leads off the battery. Notice only 1 cable to the 4 pin header. In the picture above the 4 pin is using all 4 wires.

And here is the charger - an Ewheels fast charger. It worked for my RS when I had original batteries, and it continues to work with my SS. I set it to a slow 2 Amps when I attempt to charge each of these Commander batteries separately. 

 

I haven't tried having both batteries in the wheel together to charge them because they are not balanced. One pack is at 93V, and the other at 86V. 

Thanks again for the help guys! I'm no battery expert and am trying to figure out if there's any way to get these packs working. Otherwise I'm afraid I've waisted my money on these batteries and now I have to sell them. 

 

[RagingGrandpa]

You connections look good

27 minutes ago, SeanB said:

I attempt to charge each of these Commander batteries separately.

What things were connected when you attempted charging one pack? 

Also be sure to turn on that charger before connecting it to the battery. Otherwise, the "pop" of inrush current can cause the charging port protection to activate. 

[SeanB]

When charging them separately I had all 3 connections connected (the XT60, XT30, and 4 pin), otherwise I'm not sure what other things you're asking about. And that's exactly how I use the charger. I turn on the charger before connecting it to the wheel to prevent the spark. 

[RagingGrandpa]

Ah. Remove the XT60 and 4-pin connector. Recharge one pack, with only its XT30 connected. 

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[alcatraz]

The packs are telling eachother to interrupt charging as a "group". That's why the communication wires between the packs need to be disconnected too.

Otherwise the pack that wants to stop charging gets charged through the output, from the other pack.

If the commander was in a crash and the packs came out with different voltages, that's one warning sign.

[alcatraz]

9 hours ago, SeanB said:

I haven't tried having both batteries in the wheel together to charge them because they are not balanced. One pack is at 93V, and the other at 86V. 

Good work.

[SeanB]

I attempted to charge each of the packs with only the XT30 connected and got the same result. No charging. Also, I confirmed that the beeping is coming from the BMS of the battery packs, not from the wheel or the motherboard. 

I'm starting to think there's no way these packs will work with my RS.

[alcatraz]

On my gotway I only got one xt60 and two smaller (non xt) black connectors.

Maybe they switched wires around. Like the charger input isn't the same wire as on the RS.

I know you don't like to hear it but removing the heatshrink can solve the mystery of which is which.

[mrelwood]

I don’t know the specifics of either those packs or that wheel, but in my understanding the Begode BMS starts to beep if there is a critical error. I’d suspect the Commander BMS to have a similar function. The packs could be faulty, with some cell groups being at an undervoltage for example. Removing the shrink wrapping would allow you to measure the cell groups (if you know to be careful).

[RagingGrandpa]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:47 AM, SeanB said:

I'm starting to think there's no way these packs will work with my RS.

The packs have no knowledge of what controller they're connected to. They absolutely can work... assuming the packs themselves are healthy.

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Removing the shrink wrapping would allow you to measure the cell groups (if you know to be careful).

Agreed. 
The next step is unwrap the packs and measure individual cell voltages. 

Post some photos once you open them- we haven't seen a 900wh Begod BMS with a beeper yet.

[SeanB]

Good news! I’ve got the packs charging and working in my RS. The issue was that I was charging at too high an amperage (4 Amps). I should I have known that the BMS would do its job and reject the charger if the amperage is too high. So I set my charger to 2 Amps and it charges fine now. 
 

I also confirmed that the new Begode battery backs have a built-in beeper if any issues arise. 

[Bizra6ot]

1 hour ago, SeanB said:

Good news! I’ve got the packs charging and working in my RS. The issue was that I was charging at too high an amperage (4 Amps). I should I have known that the BMS would do its job and reject the charger if the amperage is too high. So I set my charger to 2 Amps and it charges fine now. 
 

I also confirmed that the new Begode battery backs have a built-in beeper if any issues arise. 

The limit is 3A/pack

[alcatraz]

Sweeet!

[alcatraz]

Are you able to charge both packs up to 100%?

It's weird that one pack was much lower than the other.

[SeanB]

Yes they both charge up to about 100.3V. They came at very different voltages because one was OG from the commander and had 300 miles on it, and the other was a brand new replacement from Alien Rides.