Broke OG Sherm axle, options besides buying another motor?

[destruver]

I was told at ewheels that it's a pretty special process of replacing the axle, that it needs to be "pressed" in and I didn't consider getting the motor wires through the axle. Can only LK do it, and is it as expensive as buying another motor? Worst case if getting it in is not as hard as it seems I can get the ring terminals through the axle hole which I assume is how they did it on the assembly line? Thanks for any help

[Freeforester]

There is Russian specialist firm who made a replacement CNC axle for the OG Sherman, ISTR. It’s mentioned in another earlier thread. Off the top of my head I can’t remember the name of the firm but they exist, or certainly did. If you search back through the Veteran thread here hopefully you’ll be able to find it. I’m unfamiliar with the process of actually replacing the axle though, but it must indeed be possible to have this done in a shop with a hydraulic press.

[destruver]

2 hours ago, Freeforester said:

There is Russian specialist firm who made a replacement CNC axle for the OG Sherman, ISTR. It’s mentioned in another earlier thread. Off the top of my head I can’t remember the name of the firm but they exist, or certainly did. If you search back through the Veteran thread here hopefully you’ll be able to find it. I’m unfamiliar with the process of actually replacing the axle though, but it must indeed be possible to have this done in a shop with a hydraulic press.

Oh I'm not worried about getting another axle as I mentioned ewheels has it (and I'm kind of impatient) only the process in getting it in, and I see that I'd need a hydraulic press. How should the wires get in too? I think that's what I was most worried about. Thanks

Edited May 3, 2023 by destruver

[destruver]

16 hours ago, Freeforester said:

There is Russian specialist firm who made a replacement CNC axle for the OG Sherman, ISTR. It’s mentioned in another earlier thread. Off the top of my head I can’t remember the name of the firm but they exist, or certainly did. If you search back through the Veteran thread here hopefully you’ll be able to find it. I’m unfamiliar with the process of actually replacing the axle though, but it must indeed be possible to have this done in a shop with a hydraulic press.

Also, will the shop be able to remove the old axle? I'm wondering how this is done without damaging the motor. Trying to not have to shell out 400 more for another motor than the price I was given for the axle

[alcatraz]

Check for axle replacement videos on begode wheels. They shold be pretty similar.

[mrelwood]

10 hours ago, destruver said:

Trying to not have to shell out 400 more for another motor than the price I was given for the axle

Removing the old axle and inserting, welding and rewiring the new one in is a job that can quite easily cost more than a new motor whether you outsource the job or calculate any kind of worth to your own time. Personally I don’t see fixing an axle to be worth it unless one is curious and dedicated enough about whether/how it can be done. But to save money? Nah.

Edited May 4, 2023 by mrelwood

[destruver]

5 hours ago, alcatraz said:

Check for axle replacement videos on begode wheels. They shold be pretty similar.

Thanks. For now I contacted LK and am waiting for a response on how to do this the proper way. Now that I know the heavy duty process involving the axle, I'm just worried about the wires.  I hope they don't think I'm trying to dabble in their industrial secrets to copy them 🤣

 

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Removing the old axle and inserting, welding and rewiring the new one in is a job that can quite easily cost more than a new motor whether you outsource the job or calculate any kind of worth to your own time. Personally I don’t see fixing an axle to be worth it unless one is curious and dedicated enough about whether/how it can be done. But to save money? Nah.

I do agree with inserting when it comes to labor at the shop, but I don't think it has to be "welded" and "rewired," as I learned it's only a process of it being pressed in, I might have messed phrasing before but I was originally concerned about getting the motor wires in the axle, it does seem like those wire terminals can fit through there, not sure if that's before or after pressing though.

Edited May 4, 2023 by destruver

[RagingGrandpa]

Replacing the metal is just half the battle... 

1 hour ago, destruver said:

it does seem like those wire terminals can fit through there

No; the terminals won't fit. You can only pass the bare cable through the axle hole; the board connectors must be installed after. 

You'll either have to choose to re-use your old cable (which is worn and has dirty solderjoints now, which you'll need to disconnect and then resolder); or source and install a new cable, which will be a fussy challenge to solder and re-secure the connections inside the motor for the phase wires and hall sensors.

Remember that if any of these connections fail while riding, you crash. 

It's new motor time.
Perhaps post a "Want To Buy" in our classifieds or on facebook, looking for a good used Sherman motor stator with cable, like from a rim damage accident.
 

Edited May 4, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, destruver said:

I don't think it has to be "welded" and "rewired,"

I’m not 100% sure which parts are welded together, and if there are parts around the axle that the welding is done to instead. But the stators have been welded to some part of the axle in all EUCs motors I’ve seen first hand or photos of. This doesn’t negate the use of a press, the tolerances are very tight.

By rewiring I meant desoldering the 8 cables, pulling them out through the axle, prying them all back in through the new axle without damaging them, and finally soldering them back into place. These are also steps that can’t be avoided. And like @RagingGrandpa reminded, a bad soldering job, torn insulation etc. on any of these wires can cause an instant crash. So you better trust your soldering skills if you plan to DIY.

[destruver]

12 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Replacing the metal is just half the battle... 

No; the terminals won't fit. You can only pass the bare cable through the axle hole; the board connectors must be installed after. 

You'll either have to choose to re-use your old cable (which is worn and has dirty solderjoints now, which you'll need to disconnect and then resolder); or source and install a new cable, which will be a fussy challenge to solder and re-secure the connections inside the motor for the phase wires and hall sensors.

Remember that if any of these connections fail while riding, you crash. 

It's new motor time.
Perhaps post a "Want To Buy" in our classifieds or on facebook, looking for a good used Sherman motor stator with cable, like from a rim damage accident.
 

Hmm, they didn't seem bigger than the axle hole, maybe it's through the rest of the axle, it wouldn't fit? Guess I got that wrong, but I can't just remove the terminals, then resolder/crimp? (unless they're on there tight, then worst case I'd mess the wire up pretty good.) I'm not seeing how I'd have to mess with any motor internals (unless I had to replace the wires). Def not touching no halls tho, but willing to get my claws a bit dirty before I pull the trigger for anything  

Edited May 5, 2023 by destruver

[Freeforester]

Let us know how it goes!

[destruver]

7 hours ago, Freeforester said:

Let us know how it goes!

Thanks. I understand you said you're unfamiliar with the full process but it definitely has to be pressed in so I'll see what I can do with the terminals.

[vanhoolvisko]

These days IAM replacing my broken axle. 

Pal from group offered me to swap axle cos he has 30t press available so he Did it in 2 days.

Thanks man, you are great!

But now I have a even bigger big problem with motor not centering when tightening cover plates. When I turn motor I hear scraping inside for about half turn... Other half is going ok Already 3 days IAM trying to fix this but no chance.

I thinks covers don't do its job of centering stator in the middle.

If someone can  help me I would appreciate it. 

 

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, vanhoolvisko said:

I thinks covers don't do its job of centering stator in the middle.

Sometime a thrust or shim washer is needed on one side or the other to keep the motored centered between the covers, Do you notice any endplay back and forth between the covers?

This is an example of a v13 motor with endplay

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19HS5YEksuJ9-ebQBhxWr2y0aGSJsLWeZ/view?usp=sharing

[vanhoolvisko]

I don't have any play... Everything is still and looks good. I would like to send you pictures but don't know how to attach them from url...

I can turn just half of circle, other half is scraping on magnets. Like it's not centered wit plates. I don't hear that click when plates sits on stator.

Also I was changing bearings... IAM crazy man. That's my work wheel and I can't work now.

Please any suggestions.

Thanks!

[Chriull]

25 minutes ago, vanhoolvisko said:

I would like to send you pictures but don't know how to attach them from url.

 

[vanhoolvisko]

What size of axle lock washer do I need for my og. Axle?

Thanks guys!

 

[vanhoolvisko]

On 3/23/2024 at 9:13 AM, vanhoolvisko said:

What size of axle lock washer do I need for my og. Axle?

Thanks guys!

 

I found out. So it's a 21mm lock zeger washer

[vanhoolvisko]

On 3/18/2024 at 11:47 PM, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Sometime a thrust or shim washer is needed on one side or the other to keep the motored centered between the covers, Do you notice any endplay back and forth between the covers?

This is an example of a v13 motor with endplay

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19HS5YEksuJ9-ebQBhxWr2y0aGSJsLWeZ/view?usp=sharing

found out what the problem is.

Unfortunately that guy who didy axle swap, he didn't do good job and he pressed too hard with press and he mess my stator. That scratching was coming from deformed stator.

So I took marker and while spinning the wheel I hold marker in one place so I touched on stator where is off center. After that I Dremel all those spots out. It was a hard 2 day work but now my wheel is spinning fine and I manage to put it together.

So I took the wheel for a spin and worked fine for a while but after a few kilometers I started to hear clacks every time I was changing direction of driving ... Forward - backward or when jerk the wheel harder and it was louder and louder ...

So ofcourse next day I again open my wheel since I hoped that I didn't tight enough those 2 big screws on pedal hangers. 

Unfortunately it wasn't the case since after tightening those screwa didn't help and I still hear clacks when changing directions.

I hope that washer in ball bearing cover hole will help but IAM very suspicious that the real problem is  loosen axle since that guy didn't know what he was doing and I think I will have to weld it on stator

I will keep you updated...