Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[techyiam]

Jack (Electric Dreams) answered some questions on Facebook. Also, he is currently helping Inmotion to test the V14 Adventure. The following are some of the highlights.

(1) 134.4 V, each battery pack has full voltage. That is, it is possible to ride with only one battery pack.

(2) The four battery packs can significantly differ in voltages and can still be plugged into the wheel. The main board will know and will automatically deal with the voltage differences.

(3) Regarding ease of acceleration, Jack said the V14 was the easiest to accelerate, follow by the Patton, then the Extreme. The Extreme took significantly more effort to accelerate.

(4) Jack demonstrated the disconnection and reconnection of a battery pack quick release connector. It looked good.

(5) Regarding space for putting on a bigger tire, Jack measured 10 cm, from the inner side of one battery pack to the battery pack on the other side.

(6) The trolley handle can be pulled out to a comfortable height.

(7) Maximum free-spin speed was observed by Jack to be 100 km/h, with 95% battery.

(8) The V14 uses the Samsung 50GB cells. Jack said the Samsung 50E's are now out of production and the 50GB's are the replacement.

(9) Pedal height is not adjustable.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by techyiam

[OldFartRides]

Re: tire clearance….has to be mm, not cm.

Doh ! Reading comprension failure on isle nine.

Edited September 9, 2023 by OldFartRides

[Funky]

12 minutes ago, OldFartRides said:

Re: tire clearance….has to be mm, not cm.

Why not CM?  Bigger space - the better.

He said from battery pack to battery pack.. Pack "suspension/tire space" Pack. 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

It is still very early to really know, but so far, there doesn't appear to be a clear winner for me among the wheels such as the Patton, Commander Mini, Extreme, and Adventure. One needs to ride the wheels and look at the finer points, before one can decide which wheel will be the better fit.

If I wait for the Adventure to come out, I am pretty sure I would want to wait for Kingsong F-series too. Decisions, decisions. 

[Funky]

40 minutes ago, techyiam said:

It is still very early to really know, but so far, there doesn't appear to be a clear winner for me among the wheels such as the Patton, Commander Mini, Extreme, and Adventure. One needs to ride the wheels and look at the finer points, before one can decide which wheel will be the better fit.

If I wait for the Adventure to come out, I am pretty sure I would want to wait for Kingsong F-series too. Decisions, decisions. 

For people who don't ride many different wheels. They could care less about how the wheel "rides", aka ride feel, etc.. Because they all are moving forwards and doing exact same thing as other wheels. 

I personally would look at wheels build quality and how good it is put together. And would not think even how it rides.. I would look at the best suspension "sliders" and such between all wheels, as it's the only moving part. Can mud/sand/dirt get in the suspension? If yes - that wheel is already out of the running. Second how good is the wheel in general. Can water/dust get in easily? How solid is the overall build. Can the wheel be damaged easily by small drops? Do i need to open motherboard compartment for tire change, etc.. If you don't need to open motherboard apartment/box - you can simply silicone it shut and be happy ridding true rain.

 

Simple plastic cover over motherboard - can easily be damaged/cracked and aren't water tight anymore.. (Even overtightening the screws can crack the plastic.) Origami build without suspension arch that holds everything solidly together - over time gets looser and looser, some play can start happening. Suspension starts rubbing..

 

It's pretty easy choice, if you know what to look for and already can see problems happening down the road. 

The choice?

Spoiler

None of them..  Maybe V14 for now? Who knows.. I need to see disassembly videos first.

 

Edited September 9, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

58 minutes ago, Funky said:

For people who don't ride many different wheels. They could care less about how the wheel "rides", aka ride feel, etc.. Because they all are moving forwards and doing exact same thing as other wheels. 

Perhaps.

But there are many other who would.

Eevees and other shops have demo wheels. Also, at new wheel launch demo rides, lots of people show up.

Also, at Intro2Speed and other events, as well at group rides. People swap wheels to try each others' wheels. From what I have observed, many care.

 

1 hour ago, Funky said:

I personally would look at wheels build quality and how good it is put together. And would not think even how it rides.. I would look at the best suspension "sliders" and such between all wheels, as it's the only moving part. Can mud/sand/dirt get in the suspension? If yes - that wheel is already out of the running. Second how good is the wheel in general. Can water/dust get in easily? How solid is the overall build. Can the wheel be damaged easily by small drops? Do i need to open motherboard compartment for tire change, etc.. If you don't need to open motherboard apartment/box - you can simply silicone it shut and be happy ridding true rain.

Most recently released, and soon to be released wheels are better built and waterproofed. The Extreme and Adventure are two examples. The Patton and Sherman S and the V13 look good too.

I would say it is certainly a consideration, but there are enough good wheels to choose from. It is so yesterday's problem.

Unlike the era of the 18XL, with plastic shells, and skinny solid axles, things have improved a lot. I have taken completely apart a 18 XL, and even the V12 is way better built, never mind some of these newer wheels. Many may looked down on the Abrams, but for the most part, it is a well built wheel. The controller housing is completely sealed. Opening up after thousands of kilometre, it looked completely mint. There isn't even dust inside. I would imagine the V13 is even better.

 

 

[Funky]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Perhaps.

But there are many other who would.

Eevees and other shops have demo wheels. Also, at new wheel launch demo rides, lots of people show up.

Also, at Intro2Speed and other events, as well at group rides. People swap wheels to try each others' wheels. From what I have observed, many care.

Cool if you got other people to ride with and can try other wheels out.. And have event's like that.. (Some don't. And don't enjoy riding with other people.)

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Most recently released, and soon to be released wheels are better built and waterproofed. The Extreme and Adventure are two examples. The Patton and Sherman S and the V13 look good too.

I would say it is certainly a consideration, but there are enough good wheels to choose from. It is so yesterday's problem.

Unlike the era of the 18XL, with plastic shells, and skinny solid axles, things have improved a lot. I have taken completely apart a 18 XL, and even the V12 is way better built, never mind some of these newer wheels. Many may looked down on the Abrams, but for the most part, it is a well built wheel. The controller housing is completely sealed. Opening up after thousands of kilometre, it looked completely mint. There isn't even dust inside. I would imagine the V13 is even better.

 

 

Yeah if i where you - i would take another look at V13.. (If i remember it right. WrongWay even showed it in video.. Or perhaps his wheel was ducked up.) It's motherboard compartment is connected to wheel well.. All dirt, etc gets in there. So i would in no mean call it a better wheel than some of old ones. Same goes for some other "newer" wheels. Yes newer wheels are made from better materials, have better waterproofing and so on. But the little things like charge port placement, not handy trolley handle, etc.. Makes them worse than some of older models. Also being ~100lbs doesn't help the case.

In my eyes 18xl is still best wheel. Best in power to weight to speed. No other wheel comes close to it. (Aside of some older begode 18" wheels in same weight.) After riding for 3 years. I for sure will be looking for something lighter, not heavier as my next wheel. Need be it can even be slower.. And have half of 18xl battery. My newest record - 3 weeks daily ridding to job without charge.  (Battery at ~35% now.)

Each their own.. I would take A2 over V13 even if they where priced the same. Why? Because i have no need of V13 speed and weight. I'm happy with any wheel that can go around 40km/h.

Sad part is - lightweight wheels aren't been made anymore.. (If you remove all the new wheels that are over 30kg - we have only Mten 4 and A2 = only 2 new wheels.) 

I would love to have something like V14, but everything halved. Speed/Power/Battery.. Weight.. Even then it would be around 30kg. Meh.. I'm starting to think plastic "era" was better "era".  Yes all metal/steel build is good. Metal - Strong, but same time Metal - Heavy.

Smaller commuter wheels don't need to be made from metal. Do you go jumping/off-roading with wheels like V8, Teslas, KS16S? I don't even remember last time i dropped my 18xl... Only while learning.

 

 

TL;DR - New wheels = somewhat shitty.. Wheels becoming to heavy.. Light commuter wheels aren't been made anymore and plastic build is okay..

Edited September 9, 2023 by Funky

[Punxatawneyjoe]

3 minutes ago, Funky said:

It's motherboard compartment is connected to wheel well.. All dirt, etc gets in there

This is true but Inmotion waterproofs their wheels in a different way, they use encasement on all of their boards. Just like the marine industry, so dirt/dust/water can get all over their controller and it doesn't matter. If you look at the tail light board on the v13, it can and does get sprayed with water from the tire. They suffered from a QC problem in the beginning with the coatings(missed areas) but seems they worked it out.

[Funky]

4 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

This is true but Inmotion waterproofs their wheels in a different way, they use encasement on all of their boards. Just like the marine industry, so dirt/dust/water can get all over their controller and it doesn't matter. If you look at the tail light board on the v13, it can and does get sprayed with water from the tire. They suffered from a QC problem in the beginning with the coatings(missed areas) but seems they worked it out.

Still.. How long till something goes high-wire? All they had to do is add 2 little plastic walls to seal of the motherboard..  Or have it completely sealed off in it's own "box" 

QC problems can happen again.. Any given time.. To me that "coating' means jack shit. I don't want any water near electricity, especially the thing that keeps me upright.  

Edited September 9, 2023 by Funky

[Punxatawneyjoe]

22 minutes ago, Funky said:

Or have it completely sealed off in it's own "box" 

This involves silicone on wires that need to be disconnected periodically or the use of a rubber grommet which isn't ever fully waterproof if it's removable.

The encasement process eliminates the need for such things and is a proven technology. It's used on my DPV that is waterproof up to 250ft deep so i think it's safe to assume it's a good technology.

29 minutes ago, Funky said:

I don't want any water near electricity

I don't think anyone does, however when it is unavoidable. It's great knowing water on my electronics isn't going to cause a cut-out.

[Funky]

13 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

This involves silicone on wires that need to be disconnected periodically or the use of a rubber grommet which isn't ever fully waterproof if it's removable.

The encasement process eliminates the need for such things and is a proven technology. It's used on my DPV that is waterproof up to 250ft deep so i think it's safe to assume it's a good technology.

Which was fixed on V14 by having the 2$ in wire connector. Regular user has no need to enter that compartment ever..

All i'm saying is having that coating + the board sealed in it's own compartment is much better/safer ordeal. Than having only coating and letting water/dirt sit on the board.

I would say everyone would agree on that.. No? (Heck the dirt alone moving around on the board could over time remove the coating.. Same thing as removing paint on door handle, etc.. Over longer time of rubbing anything can be removed.)

13 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I don't think anyone does, however when it is unavoidable. It's great knowing water on my electronics isn't going to cause a cut-out.

But it was avoidable.. They simply made half assed design. Which was fixed on V14 by having it's motherboard in it's own compartment and having the 2$ in wire connector.  

Edited September 9, 2023 by Funky

[Punxatawneyjoe]

50 minutes ago, Funky said:

Which was fixed on V14 by having the 2$ in wire connector.

The $2 wire connector you keep referring to is for the battery's , not the controller motor wires. it uses the Raptor controller, so it is encased electronics with the wires connected on top with allen head screws.(just like the v13)  I circled where they attach to the raptor controller.

I assure you, there is no $2 plug on the motor phase wires. We can wait for the tear down but those are wires you don't want plugs on, that's why they "bolt" down to the controller.

[Funky]

4 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

The $2 wire connector you keep referring to is for the battery's , not the controller motor wires. it uses the Raptor controller, so it is encased electronics with the wires connected on top with allen head screws.(just like the v13)  I circled where they attach to the raptor controller.

I assure you, there is no $2 plug on the motor phase wires. We can wait for the tear down but those are wires you don't want plugs on, that's why they "bolt" down to the controller.

But still you don't need to go inside the motherboard compartment.. They are screwed on top of it.

And if you still need to enter motherboard compartment to remove the motor from wheel - they could have simply added extended in wire connectors same as battery ones. My 18xl has plugs for battery packs and motor itself - no problem..

[InfiniteWheelie]

25 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

I assure you, there is no $2 plug on the motor phase wires. We can wait for the tear down but those are wires you don't want plugs on, that's why they "bolt" down to the controller.

What’s wrong with putting connectors on the motor wires? That seems preferable to me.

Edited September 9, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[techyiam]

Kingsong 18 XL

 

 

[Funky]

52 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

What’s wrong with putting connectors on the motor wires? That seems preferable to me.

They can come loose. (Put simple zip-tie around.) But i also prefer having the connectors in middle.. No need to mess with motherboard. Or need to disassemble all wheel to remove motor.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

46 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Kingsong 18 XL

Is that a waterproof wheel?

[Funky]

25 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Is that a waterproof wheel?

If you silicone motor shut and use "swimming cap" over the wheel - sure. Only place where water gets is wheel well, which has silicone between two case sides. Time to time i worry that heatsink "may" let water true.. But so far no problems. (Knocking head out on wood.)

I ride whole year round be snowing at -20C, or heavy downpour like buckets - i ride.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

Kingsong 18 XL

Is that a waterproof wheel?

Just like many wheels of that era, the side covers are not sealed to the inner shell. The picture showed dirt and other debris ingress.

And the controller board is mounted just in the top section of the inner shell structure, and it isn't sealed.

The battery packs are just plain Jane heat shrink wrap.

The connectors are not waterproof, neither are the phase wire connectors, nor the Hall sensor wire connector.

The wheel bearings are 6203 RS, which has a contact seal on one side.

People who wants to ride in the rain would have to their own due diligence and proper water ingress prevention.

[Paul g]

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Is that a waterproof wheel?

    The exterior V14 connectors for the battery packs are waterproof and they’re secured by screwing barrel. It would be extra very noice 🥰 if for the motor would have similar exterior connector.

[mike E]

connectors on the main phase wires are not advisable (bad idea) due to the amount of current being used in these modern eucs. think car battery cables going from the starter battery to the starter motor, big thick cables and large surface area lugs with large bolt through connections. granted a 12v system with 350 to 500amps (cca rating ) requires big thick cables Power (Watts) = Voltage (V) * Current (A) so 4200W to 6000W  where as a 134v system would require thinner cables ( that is the main advantage of a higher voltage system eg for 6000w of power the current required to produce it would be 45A not accounting for natural losses) Any quick release in the phase wires would require relativity large surface area and good solid connection ( look at the raptor connection big lugs with bolts) side note s22 loose phase wire where it plugs into the controller causes wheel vibrations, begode uses a similar connection for the phase wires, I like inmotions solution much better. Bottom line for me  inmotion wheels are better RnD and supported, and thats what I am paying the extra for

[Paul g]

1 hour ago, mike E said:

connectors on the main phase wires are not advisable (bad idea) due to the amount of current being used in these modern eucs. think car battery cables going from the starter battery to the starter motor, big thick cables and large surface area lugs with large bolt through connections. granted a 12v system with 350 to 500amps (cca rating ) requires big thick cables Power (Watts) = Voltage (V) * Current (A) so 4200W to 6000W  where as a 134v system would require thinner cables ( that is the main advantage of a higher voltage system eg for 6000w of power the current required to produce it would be 45A not accounting for natural losses) Any quick release in the phase wires would require relativity large surface area and good solid connection ( look at the raptor connection big lugs with bolts) side note s22 loose phase wire where it plugs into the controller causes wheel vibrations, begode uses a similar connection for the phase wires, I like inmotions solution much better. Bottom line for me  inmotion wheels are better RnD and supported, and thats what I am paying the extra for

      Nice observation 👍. Vibrations would be a big issue indeed. I’m personally thinking an outside connector for the motor is still (relatively) easy to design. I have some battery based tools that create high vibrations and they use multiple elastic blades to ensure constant connection on the pins. That could be a solution. I also think that an outside block connector similar to S22 but with hefty rubber seal around and screw on construction would do a good job as well and would be very secure. There is no issue that wizards can’t solve  🧙‍♀️ 

[mrelwood]

On 9/9/2023 at 7:27 PM, Funky said:

For people who don't ride many different wheels. They could care less about how the wheel "rides", aka ride feel, etc.. Because they all are moving forwards and doing exact same thing as other wheels.

Same can be said about everything else, with as little real life relevance. It doesn’t matter what you do for living, as long as it gets food on the table. It doesn’t matter what you eat, as long as it gives you energy. Etc. yet these things matter to people, especially to those who have a will to live… 

I have always only had a single EUC in use. As soon as I got familiar with the MSX, I was frustrated with the ride modes and the ride feel, since it didn’t make sense to me, it wasn’t optimized for real life situations, and it was fighting against me. This continued for the full 14000km I rode on mine.

 Enter V11. Right off the bat the ride feel was MUCH MUCH better. It was more stable, more effortless, and always did what I expected, no matter the settings. And the settings allowed me to fine tune the behavior further, to the point where the wheel disappeared from between me and moving around. It was in unison with me. Perfect harmony. It always did what I wanted and expected it to do. To me it’s a really big deal, the difference is huge, and it very largely affects the enjoyment I get from riding.

 The 18XL is a relatively fine riding wheel, especially with the 2.x firmwares. So you probably have no idea about the range of ride feels that various wheels have. To my understanding you don’t even know how suspension wheels ride. That’s a very narrow point of view for saying that they don’t matter.

I do agree with all your other points though.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

yet these things matter to people, especially to those who have a will to live… 

 

Hmm.. That's why it doesn't matter to me.  

 

Yup - i don't get what the difference can there be? You lean forwards - wheel goes forwards.. I don't even mess with ride modes on my 18xl (if you can call them that even.)

Even if i had big shot inmotion wheel, where you can set settings till cows come home.. I would set one and forget. Wheel moves forwards - i'm happy.

I for sure would not take in mind wheel ride "feel" as my first buying criteria. I would look at build quality first and how easy be working on that wheel.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

19 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

What’s wrong with putting connectors on the motor wires? That seems preferable to me.

I can think of a few reasons off the bat, with the high voltage/current the phase wires use. The plug would have to be huge. Given the fact the v14 is a waterproof wheel, the plugs would have to be even bigger and include rubber seals like some automotive plugs. It doesn't make any sense to add a possible failure point the the motor phase wires by adding plugs because it only takes about 10 seconds longer to unscrew them from the controller. The controller itself is waterproof so it doesn't need to be inside of any waterproof box. Vibration can be a problem for some plugs over time, repeatedly plugging in and out such an important wire to change the tire would certainly cause some wear and tear on the plug connections. Just seems like a bad idea to me.