Nikola suddenly stopped accepting charge

[James C. ReedC]

Hello Nikola owners,

I got my Nikola AR plus back in October - brand new, - learned on it and grew to depend on it - everyday. Never any problems now; Being a bit distracted, I bumped into an SUV stopped at a red light. No damage whatsoever. But that night, when I went to plug in the charger - the charger indicator light did not turn red, even though my wheel was down to 81volts. I checked charger by plugging it into a friend's Begode, and it is fine - it is my Nikola which will not charge. I am heartbroken. I find nothing else wrong with it. I figured a wire may have come loose from the charge port from the slight bump  with the SUV but upon opening both side covers -- I could find nothing amiss. Someone - anyone with such an experience in their past PLEASE help me to solve this mystery so that I may again be happy riding my Nik' AR Plus.........anybody out there??

  Sincerely depressed, Dolo4477

[Denny Paul]

Were you able to follow the wire leading from the charge port all the way to the board? All connections good without discoloration? This would be the most common cause given your description. Pay special attention to where the wires come out of the port itself. If something was to bump the front of the charge port, it's more likely to cause a problem there than elsewhere. 

Other ideas:

Charger pins on wheel do not adequately connect to charger plug. Try manipulating it, bending it, twisting it while watching the green LED on the charger to see if it ever blips red. 

After those are checked, next thing I'd do would be check each battery pack for matching voltage or damage. Ensure all the connections are secure between them and the board, especially the smaller charging/balancing wires which often have cheap and weak connectors

 

[Robse]

2 hours ago, James C. ReedC said:

Hello Nikola owners,

I got my Nikola AR plus back in October - brand new, - learned on it and grew to depend on it - everyday. Never any problems now; Being a bit distracted, I bumped into an SUV stopped at a red light. No damage whatsoever. But that night, when I went to plug in the charger - the charger indicator light did not turn red, even though my wheel was down to 81volts. I checked charger by plugging it into a friend's Begode, and it is fine - it is my Nikola which will not charge. I am heartbroken. I find nothing else wrong with it. I figured a wire may have come loose from the charge port from the slight bump  with the SUV but upon opening both side covers -- I could find nothing amiss. Someone - anyone with such an experience in their past PLEASE help me to solve this mystery so that I may again be happy riding my Nik' AR Plus.........anybody out there??

  Sincerely depressed, Dolo4477

Do you own a voltmeter?  The charge port on your wheel is always "hot", so you must be able to measure the voltage on the charge port, pin 1 and 5 - be careful not to make a short.  If there is no voltage, you have a problem with cables somewhere (from batteries to controller / port) .  If the voltage is the same as the display, problem lies elsewhere (and i don't know... )  Good luck 

[James C. ReedC]

Thanks for responding.  I have no voltmeter but did accidentally touch charge port with screwdriver proving there is indeed juice there. I had just figured that this problem right on the heels of the front end bump couldn't be just coincidence. 

  But there are 2 charge ports- if a wire (Ground etc) was shaken off -- such shouldn't affect both charge ports - am I correct? *problem is I cannot access the rear of said charge ports- they are isolated and invisible via plastic shroud requiring complete disassembly and "split" of innards to be able to check wires. Beyond removing sides, I am terrified of going further.  I  spent my whole financial aid refund on this Nikola.....I can't afford major work; it was supposed to be indestructible!😖 But would it still be live if port wire had disconnected?  HELP??🫣

[Robse]

32 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

Thanks for responding.  I have no voltmeter but did accidentally touch charge port with screwdriver proving there is indeed juice there. I had just figured that this problem right on the heels of the front end bump couldn't be just coincidence. 

  But there are 2 charge ports- if a wire (Ground etc) was shaken off -- such shouldn't affect both charge ports - am I correct? *problem is I cannot access the rear of said charge ports- they are isolated and invisible via plastic shroud requiring complete disassembly and "split" of innards to be able to check wires. Beyond removing sides, I am terrified of going further.  I  spent my whole financial aid refund on this Nikola.....I can't afford major work; it was supposed to be indestructible!😖 But would it still be live if port wire had disconnected?  HELP??🫣

Always very sad when one's beloved possession does not work as intended. It's pretty limited what I can do here at 6000 km distance, but I hope someone shows up at this "track" who might be able to help you disassemble the wheel - you'll have to examine the cables.

[Paradox]

1 hour ago, James C. ReedC said:

HELP??🫣

[alcatraz]

It's only a matter of time before you'll be riding again. A backup wheel might be useful in these situations.

Do you feel comfortable with failsearching yourself? If yes, then a multimeter and a screwdriver can go a long way. 

Have you had to fix a flat or swap tire before? It shouldn't be that much harder to get to the bottom of this. You've got this forum to help you. Take pics and ask questions. You'll get fast answers.

[James C. ReedC]

Alcatraz, thanks for the motivation. Guess I will have to pick a day and dedicate it to disassembly, with pictures and careful precision. This bicycle riding is giving me a very sore butt, &is sooo slow! James/Dolo 😎

[RagingGrandpa]

NikAR 2700wh has 3 battery packs. Try recharging with only one connected at a time, then move to the next:   

On 3/25/2021 at 6:41 AM, Chriull said:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/22351-what-to-do-battery-not-charging-to-100/

• If the charger and the connectivity is ok there is another "easy" test if your wheel has two battery packs.
  After this following test do not plug in both batteries again if they have different voltages!
  Chances are high that only one of these packs is degraded and the other one still working fine.
  So: 
  
  fully unplug one battery pack and charge only the other one.
  Check if the final battery voltage changes after a full charge.
  
  fully unplug this charged battery and plug in the other battery pack. Now charge this pack.
  
  With some luck one of these packs charges nicely and only one pack is bad and has to be replaced.

[alcatraz]

Might be useful to check the charging harness. By disconnecting charging for each pack one at a time, and seeing the charger turn on, could identify which pack is signaling a cutoff. Ride with 2/3 packs if you have to. 

Or if all packs behave the same then it's something else.

Maybe you've got some contamination or a broken solder joint at the charge port. Take some high resolution pics and show them here. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by alcatraz

[James C. ReedC]

Alcatraz, thanks for the motivation. Guess I will have to pick a day and dedicate it to disassembly, with pictures and careful precision. This bicycle riding is giving me a very sore butt, &is sooo slow! James/Dolo 😎

[James C. ReedC]

Thanks to all: question though- if indeed a wire had broken from charging port - wouldn't this prevent port from having juice? (And both ports?) Remember I accidentally touched with screwdriver and it sparked.  James/Dolo 

[alcatraz]

I wish I had an answer. There are others on the forum that know the circuitry behind begode charge ports. Let's see if they see this and answer.

I just know that you've got three packs. As long as they're connected together they always have the same voltage and thus charge level. The control board doesn't control charging. The packs do. If one pack signals that charging needs to stop, then all packs stop together. (It's impossible to charge one and not the other, on Begode). So if I were in your shoes I'd be curious to examine charging behavior with one pack disconnected. Test all three and and perhaps you'll notice something.

So first test. Disconnect them each one by one. Test charging. (Only a short time for testing. You mustn't reconnect packs together with different charge level. Very dangerous.)

[RagingGrandpa]

21 hours ago, James C. ReedC said:

if a wire had broken from charging port - wouldn't this prevent port from having juice?

Yes.

21 hours ago, James C. ReedC said:

both ports?

Yes, because they are paralleled by a small PCB right there at the port, which connects to only one harness circuit leading to the packs. 

21 hours ago, James C. ReedC said:

I accidentally touched (the port) with screwdriver and it sparked

Should be fine because the packs detect overcurrent at the port and disconnect it instantly. 
If this protection weren't present, you'd get much more than a small spark- the pins of the charging port would be blown away.

  

On 6/23/2020 at 6:58 AM, Chronic said:

[James C. ReedC]

Hello everyone,

My main problem with following all the good advice is that I couldn't get the right pedal stud out- it was frozen.  I had the right tools and all. 

I even tried to drill it out. So now I'm stuck with only the left side cover fully off, with the right just pried up about 6 inches. No luck 😪 

[James C. ReedC]

P.S.  I see that I do have access to the wires which go to each of the 3 batteries; pursuant the helpful advice of all of you who suggest disconnecting each battery one by one but cautioning about reconnecting unequal voltages - can I simply disconnect and then observe if red light on charger returns, then quickly removing charger to prevent any charging as I go from battery to battery?

  Also, does anyone have a photo diagram of the Nikola AR Plus wiring/board/s with aspects identified which I could safely follow? And what kind of "voltimeter" do I need to buy? Expensive?

I thank everyone and anyone in advance J.C.R.

[RagingGrandpa]

3 hours ago, James C. ReedC said:

cautioning about reconnecting unequal voltages - can I simply disconnect and then observe if red light on charger returns, then quickly removing charger to prevent any charging as I go from battery to battery?

Yes. A few seconds of recharging is ok and will not imbalance the packs by any important amount. 

3 hours ago, James C. ReedC said:

Nikola AR Plus wiring/board/s with aspects identified which I could safely follow? And what kind of "voltimeter" do I need to buy?

Sorry, this is a bad idea... a 2kWh battery pack is not a safe place to 'teach yourself' how to use a meter confidently.
One slip will damage things in an instant, making more repair-work for you in the best case, and worst case: causing injury.

I think the best way is to find someone who is confident with hazardous-voltage measurements, and have them assist you in-person. Ask your locals, I bet there's someone who will answer confidently "yes I know how to measure a 100V battery." 
 

Edited February 23, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[alcatraz]

Is the pedal axle "stud" moving at all? Did you check and see if there's a screw in the pedal arm? On my wheels the axle is floating freely but on other wheels without magnets in the pedals they usually put a screw in the arm to adjust the pedal movement and reduce floppiness. That screw needs to be loosened to remove the "stud". Altogether three screws per pedal.

Each pack should have two or three connectors. I'd disconnect the pack completely. 

Good news is that I think all cables exit in the same corner of the pack. At least on my wheels they do. However, I don't have a Nikola.

Obviously before you start to disconnect, test charging and observe the behavior. Any change in the behavior could be of interest. Like the time to when the charger goes green is different etc. If behavior is the same, move on to disconnecting another pack.

When you use a voltage meter (multimeter, in voltage mode) try it out on a small battery first and practice. Then maybe try a low voltage DC plug to a router/laptop.

Don't let the probes touch each other when you're doing the actual measurement. Ideally bury one probe completely in the XT60 connector and hold that probe and the connector with one hand. Then carefully put the other probe in the other XT60 hole. Compare the value of the pack itself and what EUC world reports. No need to measure all packs. One is enough. 

Also if you see any burn marks on the pack heat shrink or cables, take a picture. While you're at it check the wheel for contamination. Dust, water streaks. If you see anything other than clean surfaces inside then take a picture. 

Be careful with trying to measure male connectors with exposed pins. That's very risky. Avoid that. (Places like the charge port)

[alcatraz]

Ensure the multimeter is in voltage V mode before measuring. Other modes could cause a short circuit and a spark upon measuring.

The higher the voltage is the riskier the measurement becomes. Like a 5V power supply = very low risk. 12V router = low risk. 100V wheel, greater risk.

Edited February 24, 2023 by alcatraz

[James C. ReedC]

Hello everyone,

I am sitting here in shock. I finally got into contact with this guy named David recommended to me by a friend.  I took my Nikola AR Plus which suddenly wouldn't charge all the way to the city, after having explained all symptoms/facts on phone beforehand. He'd told me he would open it up and diagnose it for an upfront $100.00. 

  I finally arrive and instead of letting me into his workshop or whatever, he looked at the stripped pedal screws, and then just measured to see if there's voltage at charge ports. There was - battery low by now, at 76 volts, and he summarily told me that my batteries must be bad, and that they would cost $600.00 each! I almost pleaded with him that there must be another possibility....and that my Nikola was only 5 months old. He claimed it can be nothing else, and then went further to say that I shouldn't have ran battery down so far because now it was susceptible to damage or even fire! I  am shocked. How can all of this be happening?   I paid $2,600.00 to "AI rides" (Sam), for a brand new Nikola, and it's batteries are shot after only 5 months? 

  Someone please advise me with a 2nd opinion?  Does what he said sound legit?

  Thanks for all of you who have tried to help.   JamesC.Reed😑

 

[RagingGrandpa]

24 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

Nikola AR wouldn't charge 

measured to see if there's voltage at charge ports. There was - battery low by now, at 76 volts, and he summarily told me that my batteries must be bad

76V (3.0V/cell) is not harmful or damaging. 

Troubleshooting failure to fully recharge is described in detail here: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/22351-what-to-do-battery-not-charging-to-100/ 

The most likely causes are:

• There is a fault in one of the 3 battery packs.
• Your charger isn't working properly.
• Your controller isn't measuring voltage accurately.
   

24 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

Nikola was only 5 months old

Doesn't the standard AlienRides warranty apply then?

24 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

this guy named David

David who? 

There are some prominent personalities in NYC, hope this wasn't one of them...
 

Edited March 6, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[James C. ReedC]

Actually, it wasn't that it wouldn't fully charge, it was that one day, following a small collision to front end, when I  plugged in charger it wouldn't turn red, just stayed green. At that time (couple weeks ago), voltage was at 84v, but a couple days ago I  just wanted to ride a bit and saw no harm in riding until tiltback, even though I knew it wasn't recharging. It ran great til battery depleted. Now he insinuates I did harm.

  As for the warranty, I  didn't get any warranty paperwork from seller - should he have given me such?

[RagingGrandpa]

5 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

It ran great til battery depleted. Now he insinuates I did harm.

Very unlikely.

But if you're having a bad experience with a support person, don't sweat it, just stop engaging with them and find someone else. No need to waste time on a dead end.
 

5 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

I didn't get any warranty paperwork from seller

Just contact AlienRides directly, they can confirm the rest. 
https://alienrides.com/pages/contact-us 
 

5 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

following a small collision to front end, when I  plugged in charger it wouldn't turn red

Warranties generally do not cover collision damage.
But luckily, damage to the recharging port is simple and inexpensive to repair, as long as the batteries are OK (which yours likely are). 
I recommend opening the EUC yourself to inspect for broken wires or physical damage. This first level of inspection does not require electrical expertise. 
 

Edited March 6, 2023 by RagingGrandpa

[James C. ReedC]

Thanks, I will do that and hope for best. (What do you mean by "controller may not be measuring correctly"?

[James C. ReedC]

....well, even though there are signs on my Nikola from prior falls, that bump did no exterior damage. But I  guess what I really mean is - does my wheel have to look pristine to qualify for warranty coverage?