Nikola suddenly stopped accepting charge

[supercurio]

31 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

Hello everyone,

I am sitting here in shock. I finally got into contact with this guy named David recommended to me by a friend.  I took my Nikola AR Plus which suddenly wouldn't charge all the way to the city, after having explained all symptoms/facts on phone beforehand. He'd told me he would open it up and diagnose it for an upfront $100.00. 

Not super affordable for a diagnostic but nothing crazy either.

31 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

  I finally arrive and instead of letting me into his workshop or whatever, he looked at the stripped pedal screws, and then just measured to see if there's voltage at charge ports. There was - battery low by now, at 76 volts, and he summarily told me that my batteries must be bad, and that they would cost $600.00 each!

There is missing information here.

The question is which of the pack went bad, this needs to be completed during the diagnostic phase.
It is highly unlikely that all 3 packs went bad at the same time.

Did he test individually each pack to see if they would stop the charge?
It is not difficult to do with a charger and multimeter.

31 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

I almost pleaded with him that there must be another possibility....and that my Nikola was only 5 months old.

Understandable, that is very disappointing.
I would personally not recommend a Nikola to anybody since they're made with 900Wh packs which are notoriously problematic, and in some cases dangerous. But it's just my personal opinion.

What is the warranty duration for this model? AR means Alien Rides - so that could imply 2 years from Alien Rides themselves.
I expect Begode to have 6 months warranty on the packs as well, but this count of 6 months could start from manufacturing date (not the date you bought it)
Something to look into definitely.
 

31 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

He claimed it can be nothing else

This could be a valid claim if he tested each pack individually.
But the odds are that he didn't and only one of the packs went bad and you could absolutely use this Nikola AR as standard Nikola with 2 battery packs instead of 3 until the situation is sorted out.

 

31 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

and then went further to say that I shouldn't have ran battery down so far because now it was susceptible to damage or even fire!

That I agree with, a wheel that doesn't charge to full

• must not be attempted to be charge again
• must not be ridden

Until professional and competent diagnostic.

 

31 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

I  am shocked. How can all of this be happening?   I paid $2,600.00 to "AI rides" (Sam), for a brand new Nikola, and it's batteries are shot after only 5 months? 

Is AI Rides (Sam) reselling Alien Rides wheels?
Are you still an Alien Rides customer then and under their warranty conditions?

 

31 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

  Someone please advise me with a 2nd opinion?  Does what he said sound legit?

I made sure to not read what @RagingGrandpa wrote in order to provide a fully independent 3rd opinion 😄
But maybe I'm writing the exact same he did hehe.

 

16 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

Actually, it wasn't that it wouldn't fully charge, it was that one day, following a small collision to front end, when I  plugged in charger it wouldn't turn red, just stayed green

Okay so the plot is developing in a very different direction here. Could indeed be just the charge port being damaged.

 

16 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

At that time (couple weeks ago), voltage was at 84v, but a couple days ago I  just wanted to ride a bit and saw no harm in riding until tiltback, even though I knew it wasn't recharging. It ran great til battery depleted. Now he insinuates I did harm.

 

From your description of events there can be multiple different root causes, agree.

16 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

  As for the warranty, I  didn't get any warranty paperwork from seller - should he have given me such?

YES

Edited March 6, 2023 by supercurio

[James C. ReedC]

....and when I  opened sides I  did not see any broken connections etc visually, though I  didn't go deep, just following wires I could see as far as I  could. The charge ports themselves are inaccessible until the wheel is "split" to expose their undersides. But they have voltage - doesn't that mean they are fine?

[James C. ReedC]

....I  believe  AI "llc" must be affiliated with AR, but I  guess I  could be wrong - I don't know how it all works.

But I  will pursue that, but in the meantime should I  disconnect each battery pack with charger plugged in? Or first unplug each pack and then plug in charger to see if it goes to red...? And should I then reply each pack again after such test and then disconnect next?

[supercurio]

6 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

....I  believe  AI "llc" must be affiliated with AR, but I  guess I  could be wrong - I don't know how it all works.

But I  will pursue that, but in the meantime should I  disconnect each battery pack with charger plugged in? Or first unplug each pack and then plug in charger to see if it goes to red...? And should I then reply each pack again after such test and then disconnect next?

I caught up with the thread now and we saw a screenshot from @Paradox mentioning the affiliation between Alien Rides and AI Rides - as Service Center.
Is there a special reason why you didn't get in touch with Alien Rides first - which would likely have referred you to their repair partner AI Rides?

After reading more about the whole story, it seems likely that this is all related to the charge port indeed.
But damage with the battery is not impossible either - it can happen sometimes when the wheel takes a tumble. It's not what you describes tho which makes it further unlikely, and the diagnosis of 3x packs being bad even more far fetched.

Agree with the others, get in touch with Alien Rides directly next step - nothing else.

 

@Paradox post earlier:

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by supercurio

[James C. ReedC]

....by the way , yes ai is an affiliated partner with alien rides.

[James C. ReedC]

Thank you all...I will. You have given me hooe😎....if my no longer pretty Nikoka qualifies for warranty....?

[James C. ReedC]

Hello everyone,

  I charged to 100% last night and just came back from riding a few miles. Big difference, less power and now I am afraid of a cutout. Does anyone know how likely one is now with only 2 batteries connected? 

  ....scared, James C Reed 

[James C. ReedC]

....also, can this $600.00 battery be rehabilitated?

[RagingGrandpa]

4 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

I charged to 100% last night and just came back from riding a few miles. Big difference, less power.
how likely only 2 batteries connected? 

Yes, that's possible. You can open the EUC and connect only one battery at a time, checking the reported voltage with EUC World etc.

4 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

can this $600.00 battery be rehabilitated?

If the cells are OK, yes, the BMS can be replaced.

If any cells are damaged, it's not worth fixing.

[supercurio]

28 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

Hello everyone,   I charged to 100% last night

Congrats but..I missed an episode here 😄 how comes you were able to charge now?

[James C. ReedC]

Thanks for responding....I am going to investigate whether this bad battery is covered by Alien Rides; my Nikola is only 5 months old, and I bought it from AR partner/affiliate AI, so I am hoping they don't give me the run-around about replacing the battery. I'm wondering why it would go bad in the first place?

  Question: just because this one battery is signaling charger NOT to charge, does this definitely mean it is bad - could there be a simpler, less costly cause? (BMS, etc.)

[James C. ReedC]

Supercurio: Answer - I took everyone's advice and disconnected each battery one at a time and plugged in charger to see if it went to red. This is how I found the culprit, left it disconnected, and then reassembled, charged, and rode her. (Less power, etc.)

[supercurio]

28 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

Supercurio: Answer - I took everyone's advice and disconnected each battery one at a time and plugged in charger to see if it went to red. This is how I found the culprit, left it disconnected, and then reassembled, charged, and rode her. (Less power, etc.)

Ah nice, then you were able to do a better diagnosis via our suggestions than the clearly incompetent David guy.

https://alienrides.com/pages/warranty-information

Says batteries have 2 years warranty (very good)
But at the same time the issue occurred after a (minor) accident, which could be "Crashes, mis-use, or mis-handling" therefore not covered.

Battery packs are not supposed to break that easily tho, and it probably highlighted a weak BMS assembly which could have failed later on with normal riding conditions (bumpy road etc)

[James C. ReedC]

....so how do they determine if battery failed due to mis-use/crash/etc.?  There is no damage except minor on exterior and absolutely no visible damage inside. Truthfully, I am not even sure that minor bump was the actual cause; I have had worse falls while learning. My Nik' gave me the confidence (before this) that it was practically "indestructible".

 The instructions for Alien Rides say to make a video explaining problem and sending it to them with order #, but I wonder because I got invoice from "AI", who actually received Nikola from AR. Does this have any effect upon warranty? I am confused. I tried to contact him (Sam from AI) but have not been able to as of yet. I definitely cannot afford to pay $600.00 to replace battery; I used my entire Financial Aid refund to buy this $2,600.00 wheel. I am glad it is now running at all, but it is so slow and weak compared to how it is supposed to be and was, I am almost afraid to ride it for fear of cutoff.  Depressing.

[RagingGrandpa]

15 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

I wonder because I got invoice from "AI", who actually received Nikola from AR. Does this have any effect upon warranty? I am confused. I tried to contact him (Sam from AI) but have not been able to as of yet.

This matter is between you, your seller, and AlienRides. Forum members here won't be able to answer those questions.

Aside from the technical process of repairing an EUC, if you are looking for personal advice about how to handle a warranty situation, I recommend using our facebook group for it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle 

[James C. ReedC]

....Understood, but back to the technical side, if I wind up having to buy a new battery - how would I go about installing and equalizing the voltage with the existing ones; I can't see myself being satisfied with this half powered/half range Nikola as it is now. And is there anywhere I can get this flawed battery checked out to see if it may actually still be usable? Thanks for your time and patience with me.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, James C. ReedC said:

if I wind up having to buy a new battery - how would I go about installing and equalizing the voltage with the existing ones;

There are techs that work for distributors who are probably the best people to do this for you. If Alien Rides source your new pack they may offer, or you can ask them to fit it, and send them your wheel, which I do appreciate is massive hassle, but if you don't have the know-how and equipment yourself it is the much safer option.

[supercurio]

59 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

I am glad it is now running at all, but it is so slow and weak compared to how it is supposed to be and was, I am almost afraid to ride it for fear of cutoff.  Depressing.

A note on that:

Your Nikola AR with 2 working packs is now a standard Nikola how it was initially released (only with the few extra kg of the 3rd pack in the shell).
For this reason, there's absolutely no concern with that wheel essentially back to its design specifications, being slow or cutting off unexpectedly  (Gotway Nikola+ 1800Wh)

[James C. ReedC]

...what really has me concerned is how when I now accelerate, the current indicator on the app goes briefly into the red - and this is when I am not even pushing it hard. should I be concerned? Or are there beeps that would sound if I am about to over-power it?

[RagingGrandpa]

40 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

if I wind up having to buy a new battery - how would I go about installing and equalizing the voltage with the existing ones

It's easy: recharge the old batteries until the charger turns green, disconnect them, then recharge the new battery alone (until the charger turns green).
After this, all 3 packs are "full and matched" and can be joined again.

8 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

the current indicator on the app goes briefly into the red

EUC World has arbitrary settings for the gage display, which are not specific to your EUC. You could adjust how the app shows the data, but it has no effect on safety or performance.

9 minutes ago, James C. ReedC said:

are there beeps that would sound if I am about to over-power it?

Yes. The EUC will beep based on speed and voltage. This cannot be disabled with any app.
Test the beeper sound by lifting the EUC and allowing the tire to spin. 

[jimjam.nyc]

Just curious why you havent just contacted Alien Rides?  The worst they can do is say its not covered. Doesn't hurt to reach out and ask them. I find most of the vendors pretty friendly even if they have bad news for you. Sad to hear you are not getting a response from the locals here. I thought those guys were usually on the up and up. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by jimjam.nyc

[chanman]

Seems pretty clear cut to me hopefully, you've identified a bad battery pack, hopefully you're within warranty period, whoever you bought from should be working with you on replacing that, and the forum members here have given you the steps once you receive it.

Worst case you can ride around on the 2 packs just fine, just keeping the speeds and expected ranges more in line with the 1800Wh Nikola and not the AR+, and you can replace the pack on your own dime down the line if you're not covered by warranty for some reason.

There is sort of a balancing concern where very old packs won't have the capacity of the new ones, so the new ones will be working harder than the old ones, but unless you have many thousands of miles on it I wouldn't worry too much about replacing a single pack.

Edited March 9, 2023 by chanman

[James C. ReedC]

....You have all been very helpful, and I am very grateful. Without this forum I would have been at the mercy of characters such as the supposed expert "David", who did nothing for me but stress me out. I was confident enough to do what I did to solve the mystery and to now be riding -albeit slower -- entirely due to the help and advice I received here. I Thank you all.

  The reasons I have not yet tried to contact AR are, #1. I was hoping to first talk to the AI guy "Sam", to discuss the situation, and ,#2. I am not very tech-wise and thus am not exactly sure how to submit the video and photo of 11 digit serial # that AR requires for warranty claims. They say: "upload and paste a public url for Youtube, google photos, icloud etc." Unfortunately I do not comprehend this instruction.