Popular Post Marty Backe Posted February 11, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) Introduction I had the recent opportunity to do a long distance ride with the Commander Pro (thank you Jason @ EWheels ) over a route that I first did with the demo Commander (another thanks to Jason), 14-months earlier. Under nearly identical weather conditions, I left my house on a 30-mile journey to the Angeles National Forest and a ~2000-foot climb to Henninger Flats, a secluded picnic area where I could enjoy a packed lunch. Like the first time I did this ride, it was a fast (for me) carefree ride for an outing into nature. These 3600wh class wheels are amazing for their long distance capability. It occurred to me that this was the first opportunity that I've had to directly compare the range performance of a 134-volt wheel to a 100-volt wheel. Although I have multiple wheels of both classes, they all have different sized batteries. But here I have the 100-volt OG Commander and the new 134-volt Commander Pro, both with 3600wh batteries. The route for both rides was nearly identical, differing by only 2-miles (the Commander Pro ride was longer). You can see how similar both rides were by comparing the statistics in the following charts (courtesy of the Android GeoTracker app that I've been using for over 6-years now). Notice that the Commander Pro had the highest maximum speed and the average moving speed was ~1.5mph faster. This adds up over 70-miles. Here are some numbers for comparing range.100-volt Commander: After 67.44-miles the battery level was at 85.1-volts which equates to 40% battery 134-volt Commander Pro: After 69.45-miles the battery level was 109.9-volts which equates to 36% battery The Commander Pro was ridden faster and longer. Ok, so my original text was wrong because of some bad math on my part (wish I could reconstruct what I did wrong). Thanks to @Mono for correcting me. The actual numbers are: Commander: 0.0312 miles/Wh Commander Pro: 0.0301 miles/Wh The Commander gets better mileage. However, it was ridden at ~1.5-mph slower than the Commander Pro, over ~68-miles. Over that many miles it makes a difference. Ideally I would do one of the rides again but trying to match the average moving speed of the other wheel. So I would guestimate that both wheels get about the same range given the same conditions. Maybe a slight edge to the 134-volt wheel. The differences are probably in the noise. I still lean towards the Begode 134-volt wheels because they appear to be leading the way in allowing lower cell voltages and now we have options for custom firmware that allows even lower voltages (more to come on that front). Quote When I calculate the miles/watts for both wheels I get: Commander: 0.025-miles/watt Commander Pro: 0.026-miles/watt The Commander Pro gets more distance for a given battery size than the Commander and that's at a higher average speed (17.12-mph vs 15.71-mph) My main takeaway from this is that the 134-volt wheels are more energy efficient than 100-volt wheels. Intuitively I thought this was so after having ridden the Master Pro (134-volts) for some time now. Even though it only has 1200wh more battery than my 3600wh wheels I've been able to cover large distances at greater speeds than I anticipated. If you want maximum range for your slow or fast rides, go with 134-volts. This is why I most likely will never own a Sherman S and will instead go with the Commander Pro or EX30. I know this isn't high-level science but it may be the best direct comparison available for these wheel classes. I'll be doing the same ride with the EX30 in the next few weeks. Addendum Commander Voltages The Commander is a 100.8-volt wheel that allows the cells to go to 3.1-volts at which time the wheel will tilt-back to stop you from riding. This equates to 74-1/2-volts The Commander Pro is a 134.4-volt wheel that allows the cells to go to 3.0-volts at which time the wheel will tilt-back to stop you from riding. This equates to 96-volts. Edited February 13, 2023 by Marty Backe 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uras Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Thanks for that Marty. It's an awesome contribution to the community - I appreciate it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, Marty Backe said: The Commander Pro gets more distance for a given battery size than the Commander and that's at a higher average speed (17.12-mph vs 15.71-mph) Could the difference be caused by the different tires one street one knobby? Were they inflated to the same psi? Edited February 11, 2023 by Paradox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paradox said: Could the difference be caused by the different tires one street one knobby? Were they inflated to the same psi? The Commander Pro has a street tire vs the enduro tire on the Commander. I ride all my wheels at ~30-psi. There are certainly a lot of uncontrolled variables between the two rides. I don't know the effects that the type of tire has on EUC range performance. Good question. Maybe when I repeat this with the EX30 (enduro tire) this question can better be answered? Edited February 11, 2023 by Marty Backe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHOSTTE Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 9 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I don't know the effects that the type of tire has on EUC range performance. The type of tire has effects on range performance in cars and competitive cycling and it's likely to behave similarly in EUCs too. You don't see people in the Tour de France rocking knobby tires because it's less efficient for road use. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, GHOSTTE said: The type of tire has effects on range performance in cars and competitive cycling and it's likely to behave similarly in EUCs too. You don't see people in the Tour de France rocking knobby tires because it's less efficient for road use. The question I can't answer is whether the tire effects dominate over the voltage differences. Again, when I repeat the ride with the EX30 maybe that ride will help answer the question. There are so many variables we needed a funded lab facility to answer these questions with certainty 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) On 2/11/2023 at 8:02 AM, Marty Backe said: 100-volt Commander: After 67.44-miles the battery level was at 85.1-volts which equates to 40% battery 134-volt Commander Pro: After 69.45-miles the battery level was 109.9-volts which equates to 36% battery The Commander Pro was ridden faster and longer. When I calculate the miles/watts for both wheels I get: Commander: 0.025-miles/watt Commander Pro: 0.026-miles/watt I am confused. From the mileage and percentage numbers (assuming you started at 100% charge) I compute 0.0312 miles/Wh for the 100V and 0.0301 miles/Wh for the 134V wheel. That is, more miles for the 100V wheel (unsurprisingly, as it was run at lower speed). Edited February 12, 2023 by Mono 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 8 hours ago, Mono said: I am confused. From the mileage and percentage numbers (assuming you started at 100% charge) I compute 0.0312 miles/Wh for the 100V and 0.0301 miles/Wh for the 134V wheel. That is, more miles for the 100V wheel (unsurprisingly, as it was run at lower speed). I'm confused too I've been trying to back out how I came up with my numbers and I think I was using a more convoluted approach versus the simpler, straightforward approach that you used. Of course your numbers are correct. Both wheels will probably get the same approximate range given the same conditions. Time to edit the post ... Thanks 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Sharkman Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 Just finished my first long ride on my Commander Pro and it was beeping at me, EUC World telling me I was at 0% and at 107v, and I was frantically trying to remember this post...did Marty say it was 106v final tiltback, or 96v?? Luckily I made it home, and now I'll remember that it's 96v final tiltback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 Cells aren't exactly their rating. They can differ. The same cell has more capacity the lower the current. So by raising the voltage you reduce a bit of current, which increases capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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