Sherman S or Motorcycle

[Alton Dillon]

Hello y’all,

I’ve been riding for about 10 months now, starting with the trusty 16X and moving onto the S22. Though with the release of the Sherman S, I am almost tempted to preorder it, but the price tag of it is making me think of other options (aka a motorcycle). I don’t own a car as I live in a major city, and I like the freedom of not owning one, but having a means of transportation is still important to me.

If I went the Sherman S route, I don’t have to deal with motorcycle classes, license, insurance, maintenance, or gas cost. However, I would still theoretically have range anxiety and be limited to streets 45mph and below. 

If I went the motorcycle route, I would get more range, be able to carry a passenger/cargo, be able to go on highways, and not be prone to cutouts on my fast group rides. However, I’d have to go through all the hoops of license and registration and it would be more expensive in the long run.

I feel like getting a motorcycle would give me a new experience and more capability to see more, but at the same time, I feel like a Sherman S would be substantial enough to cover my current needs, especially with 1256 more watt hours than my current S22.

Which would you go for, and if Sherman S is the choice, should I sell the S22 or is a stable of 3 wheels reasonable? (16X for short rides, S22 for medium rides/trails, Sherman S for long range street cruising).

[Ben Kim]

I own both motorcycles and EUC, tell us more about your use case.

[Tawpie]

go for the motorcycle... Houston is HUGE and you'll simply be able to get more places in a reasonable amount of time. -S adds range but not a ton of speed over your S22, only a handful of MPH.

[Alton Dillon]

@Ben Kim

I commute 5 miles round trip daily, 20-30 miles round trip 2-3 times a week, and go on weekly fast PEV group rides (40+ miles, 30-45 mph speeds). I use EUC as my only mode of transportation, sometimes catching a ride on the tram. I could technically bring a motorcycle on the group rides if I had one. 
 

If I’m exploring another city, I bring my EUC, typically take a bus or catch a ride with a buddy.

[Alton Dillon]

@Tawpie

I was definitely leaning motorcycle before all of the Sherman S reviews came out lol. Makes me want to get both a motorcycle and the Sherman S, but I only have the budget for one, unless I sell the S22.

[Tawpie]

Maybe a surron? Those are totally ok at our group rides, dino-burners not so much.

[Paul A]

Houston seems to comprise a lot of highways/freeways.

An EUC is not going to be able to travel on those.

[Ben Kim]

26 minutes ago, Alton Dillon said:

@Ben Kim

I commute 5 miles round trip daily, 20-30 miles round trip 2-3 times a week, and go on weekly fast PEV group rides (40+ miles, 30-45 mph speeds). I use EUC as my only mode of transportation, sometimes catching a ride on the tram. I could technically bring a motorcycle on the group rides if I had one. 
 

If I’m exploring another city, I bring my EUC, typically take a bus or catch a ride with a buddy.

Sounds like me, I’d buy both an EUC and a 300cc for longer trips.  Sometimes you need to cover 60 miles and not have to worry about cutting out at 45 mph or sitting around for 2 hours charging. 

[Alton Dillon]

1 hour ago, Ben Kim said:

Sounds like me, I’d buy both an EUC and a 300cc for longer trips.  Sometimes you need to cover 60 miles and not have to worry about cutting out at 45 mph or sitting around for 2 hours charging. 

Yeah, probably will be the case. I was thinking of a Ninja 400 or Z400 for a first bike. Hopefully the insurance won’t kill my wallet (22 years old)

[Paul A]

There's a good reason why insurance would be so high.

400cc seems very powerful for a first bike.

[Ben Kim]

36 minutes ago, Alton Dillon said:

Yeah, probably will be the case. I was thinking of a Ninja 400 or Z400 for a first bike. Hopefully the insurance won’t kill my wallet (22 years old)

Sport bikes are extremely uncomfortable, for commuting I’d look into naked bikes like the MT-03 or Duke 390.  
 

im an MT-09 owner and commute 60 total miles a day so I understand your concern. 

[techyiam]

I ride a Ninja 400, also MT-07. Both bought new.

The ergo on the 400 is comfortable (the ergo is nothing like on an SuperSport), plus you get some wind relieve with the fairing. A bike that is very intuitive to ride, and fun.

Shouldn't have bought the MT-07. Yes, it has more low end torque, but I prefer the 400 by a wide margin.

[KiwiMark]

I'd go with the Sherman S, maybe save for a motorcycle if you have good use for one.

I have a motorcycle, works well for inter-city trips.

I use my wheel around the city, I find it great for city speeds and city distances.  The service & maintenance costs are MUCH lower for my wheel.  The running cost is ~$0.00 for my wheel since I use power generated by my solar panels, if I used grid electricity to charge it then the running cost would be more, but not much more.  Petrol (gasoline) is not so cheap nowadays (it doesn't help that my motorcycle is 1,000cc).  Around the city a motorcycle is less fuel-efficient than on longer rides, but an e-wheel or e-scooter or e-bike is incredibly efficient and cheap to run.

Here in New Zealand a motorcycle costs for fuel, servicing & maintenance, yearly registration, yearly safety inspection (older cars/motorcycles require 6-monthly inspections) and insurance.  An e-wheel will occasionally need a new tyre and . . . actually that is about the only expense.  If a person can make do without a car or motorcycle they go through their money much more slowly, it would be well worth considering if it weren't for the fact that so many people are totally hooked on private car ownership.  Personal electric vehicles are also much more friendly to the environment with less emissions from manufacture & transporting as well as less emissions generated while using them.

[Alton Dillon]

8 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Maybe a surron? Those are totally ok at our group rides, dino-burners not so much.

My buddies like to ride hella fast sometimes, so sometimes we do a mix of motorcycles and fast wheels (monster pro, master pro, surron, and gas bikes)

[Alton Dillon]

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

I'd go with the Sherman S, maybe save for a motorcycle if you have good use for one.

I have a motorcycle, works well for inter-city trips.

I use my wheel around the city, I find it great for city speeds and city distances.  The service & maintenance costs are MUCH lower for my wheel.  The running cost is ~$0.00 for my wheel since I use power generated by my solar panels, if I used grid electricity to charge it then the running cost would be more, but not much more.  Petrol (gasoline) is not so cheap nowadays (it doesn't help that my motorcycle is 1,000cc).  Around the city a motorcycle is less fuel-efficient than on longer rides, but an e-wheel or e-scooter or e-bike is incredibly efficient and cheap to run.

Here in New Zealand a motorcycle costs for fuel, servicing & maintenance, yearly registration, yearly safety inspection (older cars/motorcycles require 6-monthly inspections) and insurance.  An e-wheel will occasionally need a new tyre and . . . actually that is about the only expense.  If a person can make do without a car or motorcycle they go through their money much more slowly, it would be well worth considering if it weren't for the fact that so many people are totally hooked on private car ownership.  Personal electric vehicles are also much more friendly to the environment with less emissions from manufacture & transporting as well as less emissions generated while using them.

I think I’ll go ahead and take the motorcycle beginner course for now and decide later on what I should get. Perhaps there will be a 134V Sherman S in the works that I’ll get in the future.

[Roadpower]

I stopped riding my motorcycle a few years ago after I got a EUC because I quickly discovered that the EUC is far superior in a place like NYC. In Houston that could be an entirely different matter.

[Ben Kim]

8 hours ago, Roadpower said:

I stopped riding my motorcycle a few years ago after I got a EUC because I quickly discovered that the EUC is far superior in a place like NYC. In Houston that could be an entirely different matter.

If all you do is travel between Queens, Brooklyn and Manhattan yes. I own a Grom as well and it proves to be very useful given it can legally cross toll bridges and tunnels, something EUC can’t do.

[Boris Lämpel]

If You already have an EUC, go for the motorcycle.

Did You ever consider Zero motorbikes? Yes, extremely expensive, but You have electric acceleration (my reason for taking the EUC). Additionally in Germany You are allowed to ride the 44 kw version (zero s) with the beginner license.

[Roadpower]

36 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

If all you do is travel between Queens, Brooklyn and Manhattan yes. I own a Grom as well and it proves to be very useful given it can legally cross toll bridges and tunnels, something EUC can’t do.

The only NYC area toll bridge that is missing a pathway is the Verrazano–Narrows, which is a real shame. The big reason why I quit riding my motorcycle is that the EUC is faster for getting around the city. The tunnels I avoided anyway since they are tolled, in fact it is precisely the threat of tolls that got me to thinking about the EUC (besides just the thrill of riding such a thing as I saw it before I had one). The city had been threatening for years to put tolls on the city bridges, that noise stopped with their over-reaction to the "pandemic".

[Alton Dillon]

2 hours ago, Roadpower said:

The only NYC area toll bridge that is missing a pathway is the Verrazano–Narrows, which is a real shame. The big reason why I quit riding my motorcycle is that the EUC is faster for getting around the city. The tunnels I avoided anyway since they are tolled, in fact it is precisely the threat of tolls that got me to thinking about the EUC (besides just the thrill of riding such a thing as I saw it before I had one). The city had been threatening for years to put tolls on the city bridges, that noise stopped with their over-reaction to the "pandemic".

Going through the motorcycle course right now, I think I could see myself going either way now.  Houston drivers are some of the worst drivers, especially on the highway, so maybe sticking to EUC on city roads might be wise.  Most of the time, I am just as fast as a car since I can take a more direct route and avoid traffic. Plus I wouldn't have to worry about insurance or registration.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Alton Dillon

[Roadpower]

28 minutes ago, Alton Dillon said:

Going through the motorcycle course right now, I think I could see myself going either way now.  Houston drivers are some of the worst drivers, especially on the highway, so maybe sticking to EUC on city roads might be wise.  Most of the time, I am just as fast as a car since I can take a more direct route and avoid traffic. Plus I wouldn't have to worry about insurance or registration.

The MSF course here in NYC when I took it back in 2011 was fantastic, highly recommend. I'm curious, have you tried plotting a course to see how far your commute is? You can use maps.google.com, select the bicycle option as that will help a bit to narrow it down. When I first started commuting on the EUC it was of course daunting and due to a number of factors it took me well over a year for the foot aches and pains to subside. I wish I had started out on a suspension EUC but they didn't yet exist when I started. I use the V11 now, I'm happy with it and the suspension is a major boon in a number of regards. It took a little getting use to for how high it rides.

My commute is a little over six miles, average time is around 26-27 minutes. I can do it in less when being aggressive which I try not to be because it is easy to outpace your actual skill level...

[Alton Dillon]

2 hours ago, Roadpower said:

The MSF course here in NYC when I took it back in 2011 was fantastic, highly recommend. I'm curious, have you tried plotting a course to see how far your commute is? You can use maps.google.com, select the bicycle option as that will help a bit to narrow it down. When I first started commuting on the EUC it was of course daunting and due to a number of factors it took me well over a year for the foot aches and pains to subside. I wish I had started out on a suspension EUC but they didn't yet exist when I started. I use the V11 now, I'm happy with it and the suspension is a major boon in a number of regards. It took a little getting use to for how high it rides.

My commute is a little over six miles, average time is around 26-27 minutes. I can do it in less when being aggressive which I try not to be because it is easy to outpace your actual skill level...

Yeah I don't have to commute that much, I live 2 miles from university and there's a rock climbing gym I've been going to thats about 10 miles away.  I was thinking by getting a bike I'd be faster, but I wouldn't have as much freedom to go on bike paths or sidewalks.  So I might still go with the 3600wh EUC route instead.  Highway riding in Houston can have traffic and you can't legally lane split, so it might be slower overall.

[360rumors]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:49 AM, Alton Dillon said:

Hello y’all,

I’ve been riding for about 10 months now, starting with the trusty 16X and moving onto the S22. Though with the release of the Sherman S, I am almost tempted to preorder it, but the price tag of it is making me think of other options (aka a motorcycle). I don’t own a car as I live in a major city, and I like the freedom of not owning one, but having a means of transportation is still important to me.

If I went the Sherman S route, I don’t have to deal with motorcycle classes, license, insurance, maintenance, or gas cost. However, I would still theoretically have range anxiety and be limited to streets 45mph and below. 

If I went the motorcycle route, I would get more range, be able to carry a passenger/cargo, be able to go on highways, and not be prone to cutouts on my fast group rides. However, I’d have to go through all the hoops of license and registration and it would be more expensive in the long run.

I feel like getting a motorcycle would give me a new experience and more capability to see more, but at the same time, I feel like a Sherman S would be substantial enough to cover my current needs, especially with 1256 more watt hours than my current S22.

Which would you go for, and if Sherman S is the choice, should I sell the S22 or is a stable of 3 wheels reasonable? (16X for short rides, S22 for medium rides/trails, Sherman S for long range street cruising).

If you don't have a car, a motorcycle will help you reach places a lot farther and faster than a sherman S.  I would postpone the purchase of a sherman S.  I think it's more of a substitute for an ebike or moped, not a motorcycle.

Edited November 18, 2022 by 360rumors

[Alton Dillon]

2 hours ago, 360rumors said:

If you don't have a car, a motorcycle will help you reach places a lot farther and faster than a sherman S.  I would postpone the purchase of a sherman S.  I think it's more of a substitute for an ebike or moped, not a motorcycle.

Facts, I tried a fully modded 72V Surron today and it was a blast, but I felt like having a clutch and shifting would make the experience more fun.  Additionally, I think the jump from an S22 to the Sherman S wouldn't be as great as a motorcycle.  For now, I think I will proceed with getting a motorcycle endorsement on my license and save up for the bike, and maybe consider selling my S22 later down the line for a Sherman S.

[360rumors]

14 hours ago, Alton Dillon said:

Facts, I tried a fully modded 72V Surron today and it was a blast, but I felt like having a clutch and shifting would make the experience more fun.  Additionally, I think the jump from an S22 to the Sherman S wouldn't be as great as a motorcycle.  For now, I think I will proceed with getting a motorcycle endorsement on my license and save up for the bike, and maybe consider selling my S22 later down the line for a Sherman S.

I highly recommend taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation class.  IIRC, in CA you don't need to take the DMV practical test if you can pass the MSF class.  And I think you might get a discount on your insurance.  As for cost, actually I've seen many used motorcycles that are same or lower cost as a Sherman S.  Just be very careful and ride like everyone's secretly trying to kill you.