Winter is coming and I really don't want to use bus .. What as real winter wheel?

[InfiniteWheelie]

@Funky I'm sure those studs are great, but they require special tires with pre-made stud pockets. The main problem is availability.

Those studs I linked are almost as easy to install, and work on any tire with knobs. You just insert the tool into a drill, and screw the stud into the knob until it's flush. I've seen installation videos and it looks really easy. I'm guessing they hold pretty well based on their design, we'll see.

Edited November 22, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[plentora]

57 minutes ago, Funky said:

I love my K66 M/C tire on mine 18xl.  If you don't like to work, you got CST C-1448. H-5102. H-666 so on..

The K66 also have a "snowtex" version, that's made specially for winter. I'm thinking about getting it and DIY studding it for winter rides. Or if you don't mind little bit slipping on ice, you can skip studding it and simply ride whole year around with snowtex version..  No need to change tire each season.

 

K66 needs to be cutted at sides.. (Easy to do..) Ps - i got a post in tire section, go see.

C-1448 doesn't look like a snow tire or studdable https://www.euco.us/products/16-3-tire / https://eunicycles.eu/pl/opony-do-monocykli/176-opona-18x30-cst.html

Neither I cannot see how to install studs on H-5102 https://www.ewheels.com/product/18x2-5-tire-chao-yang-h-5146-18xl-18s/

If you have any links to where to buy, I would appreciate tons!

 

[Cerbera]

27 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

Those studs I linked are almost as easy to install, and work on any tire with knobs. You just insert the tool into a drill, and screw the stud into the knob until it's flush. I've seen installation videos and it looks really easy. I'm guessing they hold pretty well based on their design, we'll see.

Definitely the best solution in terms of availability and ease of fitting. But they are SO expensive, especially if you have to buy the tool as well !

I am lucky to only have snow and ice for 1 week a year here, because that's about as long as I can stand not to be wheeling about, but I'd have to be off for at least a month before I'd consider 160 quid worth it. But I suppose if they don't fall out, and never wear down appreciably, then perhaps that is reasonable over the longer term...

Edited November 22, 2022 by Cerbera

[InfiniteWheelie]

@Cerbera I also found these clones on Alibaba for much cheaper. 100 studs cost $40 instead of $108.10 (63% cheaper). They say they're also made of stainless steel with tungsten carbide tips. If the quality is the same or close then it's probably quite a good deal.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/1000-SCREW-IN-BICYCLE-STUD-JX100_1600590478056.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.157b2947P1h42s

Edited November 22, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Cerbera]

1 minute ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

They say they're also made of stainless steel with tungsten carbide tips. If the quality is the same or close then it's probably quite a good deal.

That's more like it, if, as you say, we can trust that it's not 'their interpretation' of Tungsten Carbide

[InfiniteWheelie]

Here's the size chart from Grip Stud (which the Alibaba clones copy exactly). https://gripstuds.com/pages/stud-selection-guide

The "1000" model I linked is the smallest size, the only one recommended for bicycles. Since many e-wheels use motorcycle tires, it's possible a bigger size may be better in some cases.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[InfiniteWheelie]

I'm thinking the "1200" model might be the sweet spot for e-wheels with big knobby tires.

• Helix is wider (better attachment to tire), while also remaining short enough (to avoid puncturing tire)

• Tip is wider (better grip on icy surfaces), while also being shorter (better rolling on asphalt)

 

Am I right to think you'd want the tip as short as possible for dry patches of road, and that a wider tip would help dig into the ice better? If that's sound logic, then the "1200" seems like the best option.

Edited November 22, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Funky]

3 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@Funky I'm sure those studs are great, but they require special tires with pre-made stud pockets. The main problem is availability.

Those studs I linked are almost as easy to install, and work on any tire with knobs. You just insert the tool into a drill, and screw the stud into the knob until it's flush. I've seen installation videos and it looks really easy. I'm guessing they hold pretty well based on their design, we'll see.

3 hours ago, plentora said:

C-1448 doesn't look like a snow tire or studdable https://www.euco.us/products/16-3-tire / https://eunicycles.eu/pl/opony-do-monocykli/176-opona-18x30-cst.html

Neither I cannot see how to install studs on H-5102 https://www.ewheels.com/product/18x2-5-tire-chao-yang-h-5146-18xl-18s/

If you have any links to where to buy, I would appreciate tons!

 

They are not "snow tires", because there are very little options to get "snow tire" for EUC. Specially in smaller rim diameter. He simply used summer tire and studded it.  (He mainly used those studs - because they where the "smallest", 1488 tire isn't very thick rubber.)

Many cheap studs. Look at what size you need.. https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?trafficChannel=main&d=y&CatId=0&SearchText=bicycle+studs&ltype=wholesale&SortType=total_tranpro_desc&groupsort=1&page=1

 (Till next winter you will get them.)

As i said before my dad uses C-1488 tire. He simply drilled the "pockets" himself... He spent less than 10$ and well worth it. Rode whole winter and studs are same as new.

It looks like this: red dots - studs. If you want, you can put studs in each knob..

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I'm thinking the "1200" model might be the sweet spot for e-wheels with big knobby tires.

Not a chance: “Penetration 10.7mm”.

I have 4x9mm studs in my CST C-186 knobby, which have a penetration of about 7mm, and even they punctured the tube when there was no shield between the inner and outer tubes. 6mm penetration would be optimal.

 My studs cost something like $8 for 100 pcs. Only a few have been lost or snapped after three winters.

They look the same as these ($20 for 100 pcs), the cheapest I found on Amazon with a quick search:

https://www.amazon.com/JEEKVISEN-Shoes，Fat-Bike，Lawnmower，Lawn-Sweeper，snowblower，Small-Tractor，ATV，UTV，Motorcycle/dp/B0BCFMZDBV/ref=mp_s_a_1_23?crid=35BIO1PENDHAB&keywords=tire+stud+tungsten+9mm&qid=1669128741&sprefix=tire+stud+tungsten+9mm%2Caps%2C222&sr=8-23

Edited November 22, 2022 by mrelwood

[InfiniteWheelie]

@mrelwood Those Amazon studs have the same penetration as the “1100” (8 mm), since the tip is only 1 mm.

On the GripStud website, under street bike category, it lists “1100”, “1200”, “1300, “1400”. https://gripstuds.com/en-ca/collections/street-bike-studs

Some tires must have deeper knobs/walls than others. The “1000” are supposed to be for bicycles, but I guess some of these light tubed tires we use are quite shallow too.

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@mrelwood Those Amazon studs have the same penetration as the “1100” (8 mm), since the tip is only 1 mm.

They don’t actually even go all the way in without excess force, my guess is that I reached the fibers of the tire. So in practice 7mm is the penetration that can be expected. 1100 size could probably still be used, but I would expect the 1000 to sit better.

3 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

On the GripStud website, under street bike category, it lists “1100”, “1200”, “1300, “1400”. https://gripstuds.com/en-ca/collections/street-bike-studs

Some tires must have deeper knobs/walls than others.

Yes, they have huge differences.

 

[Roadpower]

Besides the obvious the problem with riding on snow is that the snow covers up road defects, sometimes those defects can be large...

[Funky]

55 minutes ago, Roadpower said:

Besides the obvious the problem with riding on snow is that the snow covers up road defects, sometimes those defects can be large...

Never had that issue. Most snow gets walked on and so on. As it gets "packed" down. Worst thing is when it melts little bit and then freezes.. Each footprint is like small pothole.  Even worse than riding on applesize gravel.

[Tawpie]

40 minutes ago, Funky said:

Worst thing is when it melts little bit and then freezes.. Each footprint is like small pothole.  Even worse than riding on applesize gravel.

That's the precise reason I'm now on suspension! The winter trails I ride are shared use, so they're pockmarked by footprints and rattle the teeth.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Tawpie

[Funky]

33 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

That's the precise reason I'm now on suspension! The winter trails I ride are shared use, so they're pockmarked by footprints and rattle the teeth.

Don't care - till they make actually good suspension on light wheel, i don't need that crap.

[Roadpower]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Never had that issue. Most snow gets walked on and so on. As it gets "packed" down. Worst thing is when it melts little bit and then freezes.. Each footprint is like small pothole.  Even worse than riding on applesize gravel.

If you can ride a trail in the snow that is mostly likely going to be better as you have a better chance to see the pitfalls. But that depends on there being a trail.

[Roadpower]

34 minutes ago, Funky said:

Don't care - till they make actually good suspension on light wheel, i don't need that crap.

I'm pretty happy with the V11 for what it is worth. Before getting it I was a bit torn on the suspension type, especially given that I have a lot of motor vehicle experience. But after my experience with the V11 and seeing all of the industry issues with the other suspension types, it seems like I hit upon the right solution for EUC's. However that very well may change as the industry matures in this segment. I also haven't dealt yet with below freezing temperatures impact on a air suspension, so that may also become a factor.

[InfiniteWheelie]

I found some even cheaper ones, aluminum instead of steel (still tungsten tip). Minimum order quantity of 500 for $75. Not sure I'd buy these though, steel is just way stronger and doesn't weaken over time.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/JX100-Removable-tire-studs-carbide-Spikes_11000005617279.html

Edited November 24, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[plentora]

Now I've ridden 22km on real winter conditions on 18XL stock wheel I have gathered some experience. Conditions were snow+ice, pretty much basic very winter conditions. Some thoughts:

- Yes you can ride on snow with stock wheel as long as the wheel doesn't need to do hard motor movements; driving straight on snow is possible but I wouldn't personally drive any faster than what I can "run off". So basically about 10km/h. It has some grip/friction but very minimal. Think of driving on wet tiles and you are close.

- It has very narrow area where driving is safe; if you loose grip to ground by motor making rapid movements - you are done. No way it could get the balance back as you the wheel loses the grip completely.

- Very small sideway-bumps can and probably will throw you off

- Snow hides a lot of hidden bonks

A knobbed tire with spikes/studs is absolutely necessary. And even on those, I wouldn't probably use the wheel for daily commuting. There is a big risk of loosing grip to the snowy/icy road and when that happens, you will 99% fall unless you always drive so slowly you can run away.

 

 

[InfiniteWheelie]

@plentora I rode the Sherman in icy/snowy winter, and I have the same conclusions. The studs are necessary.

In terms of how well the studs work, I’ll soon find out since I’ve ordered some. I’ve heard that with studs the grip is almost as good as riding on dry roads. If that’s the case, it would be pretty awesome being able to ride with good grip all year long.

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[plentora]

5 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@plentora I rode the Sherman in icy/snowy winter, and I have the same conclusions. The studs are necessary.

In terms of how well the studs work, I’ll soon find out since I’ve ordered some. I’ve heard that with studs the grid is almost as good as riding on dry roads. If that’s the case, it would be pretty awesome being able to ride with good grip all year long.

 

Please share you experiences as you get the studs on your Sherman.

[InfiniteWheelie]

5 minutes ago, plentora said:

Please share you experiences as you get the studs on your Sherman.

I no longer have the Sherman, the studs are going on my Abrams.

Edited November 28, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[plentora]

1 minute ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I no longer have the Sherman, the studs are going on my Abrams.

Woops. That experience is also valuable for me

[InfiniteWheelie]

@Funky Tires that are designed to accept those studs you linked have "pockets" to hold the bottom ring securely in place. Did you just drill straight holes (without the pocket) and shove them in?

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Funky]

5 hours ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

@Funky Tires that are designed to accept those studs you linked have "pockets" to hold the bottom ring securely in place. Did you just drill straight holes (without the pocket) and shove them in?

 

My dad drilled "pocket" holes (not true all tire) and simply put those studs in there. Yes straight little holes. (But not true all tire..)