Benefits of More Capable Wheels for Very Short Commute

[Helvellius]

Are there any benefits to getting a better wheels for short commute, city riding like ~3 mi roundtrip and car traffic around 20 mph due to frequent stops and traffic? 

Besides the benefits of suspension, do larger battery/motor wheels have that much better emergency braking ability?

[meepmeepmayer]

That's a really good question! My answer is: Yes, I think there are benefits.

I don't believe performance EUCs have better braking ability (at least in a way that matters much, as you just go slower anyways on entry level wheels), and the smaller ones are perfectly fine. Sure, you could argue a strong and fast wheel allows you to get out of a spicy situation or whatnot, but I don't see these practical arguments as truly important.

The real benefit (in my view) is: fun! A strong EUC will just be more fun!

For example, when I tried (long ago) the V8 (old wheel), it was nice and perfectly capable and all, but it felt a bit meek compared to my ACM (old wheel) which just has way more oomph. If the V8 was all EUCs had to offer, I'd have given up on them because it's just meh. Not bad at all, just not exciting to me either. No comparison to a strong EUC purring below your feet that is like "LET'S GO B*TCH!" on your slightest input

I guess this distinction is more between entry level wheels and all the others. If a wheel can go 40kph or more, it's probably on the safe side unless you are very heavy. But performance is just fun. I always recommend people get their "forever wheel" right away so they don't potentially miss out on what is possible.

[Funky]

I also have round trip of a ~5km and i got a wheel that can do easy 60km distance on one charge. (I can charge my wheel once/twice a week..)

I would love to have a "smaller" wheel, but most smaller wheels max speed is around 30-35km/h and i knew i would wanna go 30-40km/h speeds.. There simply where no option for me, to get a small wheel - because of my weight and speed needs.

 

One good thing about getting "bigger" wheel than you need - is that you won't be hitting it's max speed limit. Meaning you have less chance of cutout/crashing it. Worst thing you can do is riding 20 speed out of 20 max speed.

[yoos]

3 hours ago, Helvellius said:

do larger battery/motor wheels have that much better emergency braking ability?

They certainly have, but you as a rider have to take advantage of it. You will know that your EUC is to meek if you often overpower it or are close to overpowering it (power alarm beeps, pedal dips). The only way to explore the full extent of the wheels acceleration/braking capability is to find that limit where you overpower it. It's easy to do on the V8/16S class wheels, but much more difficult for 2000W+ wheels (you really have to lean a lot, which your body resists at first for self-preservation reasons ). So the best way to appreciate the added power is to get there naturally by reaching the limits of a lesser EUC before upgrading. Once I mastered my 16S I knew its limits well: if I leant just a bit more than usual it would beep and pedal dip. When I switched to the 18L I didn't reach its torque limits until very recently (1500km in). I have yet to overpower it (or at least cause power alarm beeps) when breaking, but I have overpowered it on forward torque in difficult off-road settings a few times. 

In my experience to efficiently and confidently ride in tight, mixed city traffic, a ~2000W, 50kph wheel or better is preferable. On sidewalks, however, V8F class wheels are totally sufficient (although for heavier riders the torque might be too low) and safer (due to being light and agile).

The bottomline: unlike scooters it takes technique and experience to really make use of the full torque and power of a more capable wheel.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, yoos said:

They certainly have, but you as a rider have to take advantage of it. You will know that your EUC is to meek if you often overpower it or are close to overpowering it (power alarm beeps, pedal dips). The only way to explore the full extent of the wheels acceleration/braking capability is to find that limit where you overpower it. It's easy to do on the V8/16S class wheels, but much more difficult for 2000W+ wheels (you really have to lean a lot, which your body resists at first for self-preservation reasons ). So the best way to appreciate the added power is to get there naturally by reaching the limits of a lesser EUC before upgrading. Once I mastered my 16S I knew its limits well: if I leant just a bit more than usual it would beep and pedal dip. When I switched to the 18L I didn't reach its torque limits until very recently (1500km in). I have yet to overpower it (or at least cause power alarm beeps) when breaking, but I have overpowered it on forward torque in difficult off-road settings a few times. 

In my experience to efficiently and confidently ride in tight, mixed city traffic, a ~2000W, 50kph wheel or better is preferable. On sidewalks, however, V8F class wheels are totally sufficient (although for heavier riders the torque might be too low) and safer (due to being light and agile).

The bottomline: unlike scooters it takes technique and experience to really make use of the full torque and power of a more capable wheel.

 I overpowered my 18xl at ~250km ridden. I heard the beeps and it even said "overpower" or something like that.. Battery was around 65%. Overall i have overpowered it 4 times only. Time to time i hear "safety margin" alarm. When i'm riding around 44kp/h speed.(My set alarm) Lowest it ever has been is 13%. Normally it doesn't dip below ~27%

As soon as i hear beeps - i slow down.

1 thing i noticed when i was playing with "riding modes" it was very, very easy to overpower at "soft" setting. I didn't even lean much and it got overpowered. (That day i had them many.. So those i don't count.)

Doh i'm also 1.5-2x the normal ridder weight. So that helps overpowering wheel also. 

[mike_bike_kite]

6 hours ago, Helvellius said:

Are there any benefits to getting a better wheels for short commute, city riding like ~3 mi roundtrip and car traffic around 20 mph due to frequent stops and traffic? 

A wheel like a V10F or KS 16S will do what you need easily and weigh approx 17KG. They'll also be very robust which comes in handy when you drop it - this happens all the time when learning and not infrequently afterwards. If you just used the wheel for commuting then it would last all week before needing recharging. The over advantage of a smaller wheel is that no-one bats an eyelid when you wheel it into the office and park it under your desk. If you have to lift the wheel up stairs then I wouldn't read any further.

A better wheel like the KS S18 has suspension and a 3" wide tyre which makes the ride more comfortable, it's range is a bit better and it's lights will be better. The downsides are that the wheel will cost more, it will be heavier, it will be more fragile and it will be harder to learn on. It does look a lot cooler but you might have issues wheeling it into your work place.

The upmarket wheels have tonnes more range and far more speed but they cost a lot more, are a lot heavier and every fall will hit your wallet hard. 

6 hours ago, Helvellius said:

Besides the benefits of suspension, do larger battery/motor wheels have that much better emergency braking ability?

I weigh 96Kg and find that my KS 16S has better acceleration and braking than my Nikola Plus which has double the battery and motor power. Maybe if you're very heavy then you'll need a more powerful motor. Larger wheels do give a smoother ride though.

PS

• It will probably take a couple of months to feel fully confident in traffic - don't think that you'll master everything in an afternoon.I
• If you're going to be commuting then look at the front and rear lights to see if they're adequate.
• Don't forget to get a helmet, wrist guards and it might be worth buying a motorcycle style jacket. I average around 25mph in traffic and wear a bicycle helmet and wrist guards but I'm fairly sure many would want more protection than that.

[Helvellius]

Thanks for the comment on the discreetness of smaller EUCs. Over here, there are many escooters, some ebikes, and a couple of onewheels, but so far I have not seen a single EUC. For the V8 or V10 line, is there any option to turn off the lights?

For the acceleration discussion, I should have mentioned that I am 160lb/73kg and 5'11"/180cm. I am worried that with more powerful wheels I might accidentally accelerate too hard and make a lot of noise, scaring nearby people. 

5 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

• It will probably take a couple of months to feel fully confident in traffic - don't think that you'll master everything in an afternoon.I
• If you're going to be commuting then look at the front and rear lights to see if they're adequate.

How long does it typically take to graduate some grassy training? Would a helmet mounted rear red light be sufficient?

[meepmeepmayer]

24 minutes ago, Helvellius said:

I am worried that with more powerful wheels I might accidentally accelerate too hard and make a lot of noise, scaring nearby people. 

EUCs are silent and make no noise

You accelerate exactly as hard as you lean. Any EUC has to follow what you do. A weak one will just be overpowered sooner, but for slow speeds, this isn't going to happen anyways. So fundamentally there is no difference between weaker and stronger wheels in this respect, how you lean determines everything. And every EUC can be very finely controlled, don't worry about that.

25 minutes ago, Helvellius said:

How long does it typically take to graduate some grassy training?

Do not learn on grass, counterintuitively it is much harder and generally a bad idea. You need a nice hard surface with low rolling resistance and nothing around that could make you scared you could hit it (so that you are relaxed).

[Tawpie]

34 minutes ago, Helvellius said:

I might accidentally accelerate too hard and make a lot of noise, scaring nearby people. 

It's magic, but there's basically zero noise from the wheel. You actually worry more about sneaking up on people and scaring them.

34 minutes ago, Helvellius said:

For the V8 or V10 line, is there any option to turn off the lights?

I don't know about these two, but virtually all wheels allow you to use the app or the power button to turn the lights on/off and change modes—I would fully expect V8/V10 to let you do that.

34 minutes ago, Helvellius said:

How long does it typically take to graduate some grassy training?

That depends, but under a week? Check the various "new rider learning to ride" threads, there are lots of stories. Honestly, learning was one of the best parts for me—frustrating but super rewarding. Echoing @meepmeepmayer, don't try to learn on grass. Pad your wheel with cardboard or a yoga mat if you're worried about scuffs and bashing (there will be bashing, there will be scuffs). Pad yourself too, you will fall down and go boom.

34 minutes ago, Helvellius said:

Would a helmet mounted rear red light be sufficient?

Yes??? Again, it depends on your comfort level. Just a helmet light is typically just fine—but when I'm out at night and playing in traffic, I look like "a christmas tree on its way to the hospital" just because I have a low risk tolerance for "sorry mate, didn't see you". And I have an unhealthy relationship with lights—flashlights, blinky lights, pretty lights…

Edited August 31, 2022 by Tawpie

[0000]

10 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Sure, you could argue a strong and fast wheel allows you to get out of a spicy situation or whatnot, but I don't see these practical arguments as truly important.

Since OP mentioned commuting, presumably they're going to be around cars and such. So I would add that a higher performance wheel will allow you to go with and in traffic when you deem it safer to do so given the conditions and traffic environment at the time. A slower, less capable wheel is less likely to have this option.

That said, cut-outs are unpredictable and always a possibility on any wheel if electrical components fail and for this reason I'm personally not super comfortable riding with traffic other than for brief stints. It's not like an e-bike, scooter, or skateboard that would just keep coasting. I just don't like the idea of being run over, even if the risk is pretty small!

Besides that and being more fun like meeps said, if you run your high performance wheel at a leisurely pace, that's a good thing too as you're not really stressing the electrical system as much by riding at the limits. Everyone has their preference, but I skipped the learner wheel and never regretted it.

[mike_bike_kite]

1 hour ago, Helvellius said:

Thanks for the comment on the discreetness of smaller EUCs. Over here, there are many escooters, some ebikes, and a couple of onewheels, but so far I have not seen a single EUC. For the V8 or V10 line, is there any option to turn off the lights?

For the acceleration discussion, I should have mentioned that I am 160lb/73kg and 5'11"/180cm. I am worried that with more powerful wheels I might accidentally accelerate too hard and make a lot of noise, scaring nearby people. 

How long does it typically take to graduate some grassy training? Would a helmet mounted rear red light be sufficient?

All EUCs allow you to turn off the lights.

If you are going to buy a wheel make sure you check here 1st because there are differences in battery size ie a V10F has a bigger battery than the V10. There are also different versions made each year which sometimes change the features they offer.

As others have mentioned these wheels are totally silent but that also means we can creep up on people without them realising. Some people actually use some software called AVAS to give the wheels an engine sound (some also go for a pod racer sound and others for the clip clop of horses).

I started off on a tennis court but found I kept worrying about hitting the tarmac. After 10 minutes I moved to short grass in the park where I didn't care anymore about falling any more. It was definitely less smooth on the grass but it allowed me to just get going. After that I went back to the tennis court. It took me an hour to learn to go round the tennis court while waving my arms around madly. After a week of practicing each day, practising tighter turns and stopping/starting at pretend junctions, I went out on quiet suburban roads. After a month of riding on these roads, I'd say I was actually safe to be on them with other traffic - up until that point, small potholes would send me off course. When you feel you're ready I'd also practise riding your route to work on a Sunday just to get used to it before hand. I ended up going for a more powerful wheel because I wanted to go further and because the 20mph traffic in our area drives at 30mph. If I had the choice then I'd be quite happy riding at 20mph everywhere as I just find it more pleasant. 

Yes a helmet light would be well worth it.

[Helvellius]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

EUCs are silent and make no noise

Great, I always assumed that eucs were quiet but still made some noise. Do riders typically had a noisemaker or a bell or is it not a problem unlike electric cars?

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do not learn on grass, counterintuitively it is much harder and generally a bad idea. You need a nice hard surface with low rolling resistance and nothing around that could make you scared you could hit it (so that you are relaxed).

Asphalt like an empty parking lot should be fine right? Also, I hear that scooters have trouble with low grip situations like damp roads and temporary road fillings. Do eucs have the same degree of issues with low friction surfaces?

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

Yes??? Again, it depends on your comfort level. Just a helmet light is typically just fine—but when I'm out at night and playing in traffic, I look like "a christmas tree on its way to the hospital" just because I have a low risk tolerance for "sorry mate, didn't see you". And I have an unhealthy relationship with lights—flashlights, blinky lights, pretty lights…

Would something like a headlight be too blinding and in the way for other drivers and riders?

21 minutes ago, Vanturion said:

Since OP mentioned commuting, presumably they're going to be around cars and such. So I would add that a higher performance wheel will allow you to go with and in traffic when you deem it safer to do so given the conditions and traffic environment at the time. A slower, less capable wheel is less likely to have this option.

I kind of overestimated the speed of cars here. I could probably keep pace with most cars if I sprinted, so more like 10-15 mph.

[Tawpie]

I carry a bike bell for pedestrians/bikes and a really loud horn for cars. And I yell a lot

Parking lots are perfect

Blinding headlights are a matter of experimentation, but yeah, don't blind people or they'll run into you!

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, Helvellius said:

Do riders typically had a noisemaker or a bell or is it not a problem unlike electric cars?

Wheels with speakers can play sounds, but it's not like that is needed. Just a bicycle bell (one of those finger bells) on your wrist guards or belt is enough.

1 hour ago, Helvellius said:

Also, I hear that scooters have trouble with low grip situations like damp roads and temporary road fillings. Do eucs have the same degree of issues with low friction surfaces?

It's just like a bicycle. You have one tire instead of two, but also all the weight on that tire so more grip. Unless it's ice/wet leaves/wet wood and the like, you'll be good. Wet roads certainly are no problem.

EUCs tend to have surprisingly much grip. And with a knobby tire, even loose gravel/mud feels like solid ground (even a regular tire can do this though).

[0000]

7 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

EUCs tend to have surprisingly much grip. And with a knobby tire, even loose gravel/mud feels like solid ground (even a regular tire can do this though).

I'll second that. Since your weight is not distributed between two tires and instead directly over the one, it's quite remarkable to compare the confidence you have in gravel on an EUC vs a bike. Terrain that would be slow-going and not particularly fun on a bike become so on an EUC speaking of gravel in particular.

[Helvellius]

Thanks to everyone for all their advice. I feel a lot more comfortable riding on an euc now especially in less than ideal situations. 

[Helvellius]

Update: I managed to get a remain stable on the euc for an indefinite time assuming no large bumps and sharp 180 turns. Still shaking out the wobble at higher speeds. Haven't even gotten close to pushing the limits of my wheel yet. Look like a bobblehead with my adventure moto helmet on but the weight isn't that bothersome even in like a 1.5hr ride.