I was going to buy an S22 but?

[No1up]

I keep reading something about the suspense rods or something? Should I just wait for the master? 

[Tawpie]

I think the jury is out still... the S22's suspension design is likely to require regular maintenance because it can get dirt and other abrasive material in its "stanchions" (they're not really stanchions, but they perform the function). How much maintenance and how badly the system will wear is not yet known, but it is known that it can get very grody and stop working (it gets stuck).

Master is "better" on all accounts except for the suspension and durability. If you drop it, things will break, possibly very badly if it cartwheels. The issue with the suspension is the shock: it's supplied with a terrible inadequate pump and bottoms out easily. Yes, you can replace the shock (and linkage arms), and yes you can add a 'shell' to protect the rest of it, but these are all additional cost items.

If you want pure torque and speed and love to customize, you're a Master customer.

If you want a great suspension (when properly maintained) out of the box and are willing to give on speed and torque, then S22 is your wheel.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Tawpie

[No1up]

9 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I think the jury is out still... the S22's suspension design is likely to require regular maintenance because it can get dirt and other abrasive material in its "stanchions" (they're not really stanchions, but they perform the function). How much maintenance and how badly the system will wear is not yet known, but it is known that it can get very grody and stop working (it gets stuck).

Master is "better" on all accounts except for the suspension and durability. If you drop it, things will break, possibly very badly if it cartwheels. The issue with the suspension is the shock: it's supplied with a terrible inadequate pump and bottoms out easily. Yes, you can replace the shock (and linkage arms), and yes you can add a 'shell' to protect the rest of it, but these are all additional cost items.

If you want pure torque and speed and love to customize, you're a Master customer.

If you want a great suspension (when properly maintained) our of the box and are willing to give on speed and torque, then S22 is your wheel.

I guess question is… how much less speed and torque lol

[Tawpie]

41 minutes ago, No1up said:

how much less speed and torque lol

if you have to ask... 

[techyiam]

32 minutes ago, No1up said:

I guess question is… how much less speed and torque lol

Well, according to Afeez Kay, he felt the S20/22 has less torque than the Hero-Torque.

And with regards to speed, according to eWheels, the S22 has 6.5 mph less max cruise speed. 

https://www.ewheels.com/product/begode-master-500/

 

Time-stamped. 

 

[No1up]

3 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Well, according to Afeez Kay, he felt the S20/22 has less torque than the Hero-Torque.

And with regards to speed, according to eWheels, the S22 has 6.5 mph less max cruise speed. 

https://www.ewheels.com/product/begode-master-500/

 

Time-stamped. 

 

I don’t go over 30 much. Don’t do much off roading. I value safety, dependability, easy fix-ability, build quality, and range. I’m stuck between the two… 😭

[Tawpie]

24 minutes ago, No1up said:

I don’t go over 30 much. Don’t do much off roading. I value safety, dependability, easy fix-ability, build quality, and range. I’m stuck between the two… 😭

Veteran Sherman!

(but... you have one already)

So you're really looking for suspension+range? Neither the S22 or Master is going to win a range trophy... better get that gym membership paid up, I see an EX20S in your future.

[enaon]

the smart bms is the greatest addition the s20 brings to the table, yet somehow it is overlooked. Maybe because it was the reason for the fire, but still, when bugs are ironed out, this alone gets it to a different league. 

Other than this, Afeez votes for the s20 over the master it seems. 

 

Edited June 10, 2022 by enaon

[techyiam]

37 minutes ago, No1up said:

I don’t go over 30 much. Don’t do much off roading. I value safety, dependability, easy fix-ability, build quality, and range. I’m stuck between the two… 😭

But the Master has even more torque than the RS-T according to Chance. Also, to access the torque doesn't require as much effort on the Master. So, the Master is really the current torque king as confirmed by many Youtubers. That is, if that is what you so desire. 

Range is somewhat tricky to say, but I think the consensus is that the Master has more range. Maybe.

I suppose you can say in the safety category that Master has an edge in hard braking.

As for the othe factors you are looking at, I think you have wait until the wheels are in regular folks hands. It is too hard to tell accurately without hard data.

I can only say that my perceived feel when I got on them is that they felt like premium machines. And the S22 is an eye catcher in person. 

 

As for myself, I would like to expeiment with going over 30 mph. I don't do offroading, and as for the rest, mostly the same as your criteria except that I am willing to lose some range for lighter weight.

I am having problems deciding which between the two. There is no clear winner for me because there are too many unknowns at this time.  So, I just may end up waiting for the V13 too.

Just curious since you own both the Sherman and the V12, and on top of that, the AR Nicola +, when do you use one over the other, especially in light of the fact you don't normally exceed 30 mph. Also, how would you rate on stability while traveling at around 30 mph for the three wheels. 

And lastly, how does a S22 or Master fit in?

Edited June 10, 2022 by techyiam

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, enaon said:

Other than this, Afeez votes for the s20 over the master it seems.

So did Lukas at EEVEES. Bradley too for non-advanced riders.

Edited June 10, 2022 by techyiam

[enaon]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

for non-advanced riders.

I think he meant non-speed junkies 

Edited June 10, 2022 by enaon

[No1up]

10 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Veteran Sherman!

(but... you have one already)

So you're really looking for suspension+range? Neither the S22 or Master is going to win a range trophy... better get that gym membership paid up, I see an EX20S in your future.

Sold my sherman last year I’m currently on a 16x. 

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, enaon said:

I think he meant non-speed junkies 

Could be. 50 mph crashes aren't going look too good in the news. And it is so easy for newbies to crash, high speed ones included, but at an exponentially higher cost.

Edited June 10, 2022 by techyiam

[enaon]

for all it matters, I tested the master a bit, and I agree that it is for "advanced riders", although I really think there is not anyone that is advanced and would choose the master if there was another as fast/powerfull wheel available. 

I own an s18, the master feels like an s18 on steroids, just excels in every category. Yet, is reminds of the s18, the suspension is less progressive, feels like a racing limo, not a sports car. It it were a 60-70km/h wheel, it would be excellent, but for the fastest available, it is not like one would hope I think. 

Edited June 10, 2022 by enaon

[No1up]

11 minutes ago, techyiam said:

But the Master has even more torque than the RS-T according to Chance. Also, to access the torque doesn't require as much effort on the Master. So, the Master is really the current torque king as confirmed by many Youtubers. That is, if that is what you so desire. 

Range is somewhat tricky to say, but I think the consensus is that the Master has more range. Maybe.

I suppose you can say in the safety category that Master has an edge in hard braking.

As for the othe factors you are looking at, I think you have wait until the wheels are in regular folks hands. It is too hard to tell accurately without hard data.

I can only say that my perceived feel when I got on them is that they felt like premium machines. And the S22 is an eye catcher in person. 

 

As for myself, I would like to expeiment with going over 30 mph. I don't do offroading, and as for the rest, mostly the same as your criteria except that I am willing to lose some range for lighter weight.

I am having problems deciding which between the two. There is no clear winner for me because there are too many unknowns at this time.  So, I just may end up waiting for the V13 too.

Just curious since you own both the Sherman and the V12, and on top of that, the AR Nicola +, when do you use one over the other, especially in light of the fact you don't normally exceed 30 mph. Also, how would you rate on stability while traveling at around 30 mph for the three wheels. 

And lastly, how does a S22 or Master fit in?

I bought rode and sold all my wheels starting with the s18. Loved them all for different reasons with the AR NK+ being the least liked and Sherman the most. I regret selling my sherman. 
 

I took a break for a while and decided I wanted something well made, dependable, and fun. Nothing crazy. I went with the 16x and love it. I enjoy owning it. I’d like to add one more to the stable. I wish ewheels had a sherman. I’d buy it in a heart beat over these new wheels. But the master and the s22 both look awesome. I have them both pre ordered and planned to buy the one that gets here first. 

[techyiam]

22 minutes ago, No1up said:

I wish ewheels had a sherman. I’d buy it in a heart beat over these new wheels. But the master and the s22 both look awesome. I have them both pre ordered and planned to buy the one that gets here first

Since both of these are first batches, I doubt they will be trouble free. I guess they can still work for you since you could always sell them and buy the Sherman at a later date.

I actually have considered the Sherman too. But I really want to try a suspension wheel. But like you, I also want a wheel that is reliable.

I have a feeling you may like the Master more since you don't do big drops, and the Master is cushy. And your 16X is torquey, and the Master is even more so.

EDIT:

Wait a minute, ewheels ETA for the Sherman Max is early July. Is the Master or the S22 coming thst much earlier? 

Edited June 10, 2022 by techyiam

[No1up]

18 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Since both of these are first batches, I doubt they will be trouble free. I guess they can still work for you since you could always sell them and buy the Sherman at a later date.

I actually have considered the Sherman too. But I really want to try a suspension wheel. But like you, I also want a wheel that is reliable.

I have a feeling you may like the Master more since you don't do big drops, and the Master is cushy. And your 16X is torquey, and the Master is even more so.

EDIT:

Wait a minute, ewheels ETA for the Sherman Max is early July. Is the Master or the S22 coming thst much earlier? 

Jason said the s22 would more likely be here first over sherman or master. 6 weeks for s22 2 months for Master. IF the dates are right but these are best guess. 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, No1up said:

Jason said the s22 would more likely be here first over sherman or master. 6 weeks for s22 2 months for Master. IF the dates are right but these are best guess. 

Thanks for the info. Jason may need to update his webpage. Still a long wait in any case, even for the S22. If it is 2 months for the Master, then I think Jason is shooting for the 2nd production batch of the Master. The one with some fixes and new motherboard technology. And that is only 2 weks longer, if his latest ETA's are accurate. 

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, enaon said:

feels like a racing limo, not a sports car. It it were a 60-70km/h wheel, it would be excellent, but for the fastest available, it is not like one would hope I think.

You mean like a Grand Touring SUV, as opposed to a sports car? 🙂  The S18 feels way lighter and lithe, than the Master.

With a top speed of 80 km/h, but with a high speed stability that is worse than the Sherman, you may have a point. 

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, No1up said:

6 weeks for s22

Which implies they're nearly on the boat. But with the looming longshore strike July 1, I'm fearing the summer riding season may be over before they actually arrive. Although, some cargo (including some S22s!) has already been diverted from LA to Tacoma WA so perhaps...

Edited June 10, 2022 by Tawpie

[OldFartRides]

“ I regret selling my Sherman”

Shane put his sweet Sherman up in the FS section. He takes good care of his stuff. 

[BlckRck2014]

[DragonFZ]

I had the S20 on pre-order, then switched over for the Master based on the lack of torque for the first few meters review. For those that have tested, does the S22 have more torque than V11 or Sherman? 

[wstuart]

8 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

I had the S20 on pre-order, then switched over for the Master based on the lack of torque for the first few meters review. For those that have tested, does the S22 have more torque than V11 or Sherman? 

Some guy on Zen Lee just did an S22 review.  He said he thought it had less torque than a v11.  Obviously top speed is higher though.

 

This wheel really confuses me.  How can something with 126v feel less powerful than a v11 wheel??

[Tawpie]

9 minutes ago, wstuart said:

How can something with 126v feel less powerful than a v11 wheel??

Because we falsely equate higher battery voltage with guaranteeing one or more performance aspects. All the higher battery voltage really means is that the physics will allow the engineers different options in their design. What matters is the decisions they make.

It's a little like assuming that being taller automatically makes you a better basketball player. Being very tall is certainly a more advantageous starting point than not-tall, but there are a myriad of other factors involved. Battery voltage, like height, is only one small part of the total deal.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Tawpie