"Budget" EUC accessories...LALATECH

[Vam Monaco]

I just finished Wrong Way's 21 gadgets for EUC riders video and I was just floored at some of the pricing of this stuff.

 

I don't want to start a "You guy what you pay for" debate (although I probably will) there's just some things that I just don't think you need to splurge on, such as a $60 tire pump, let's be real.

Nobody should cut corners on safety gear, but what technology makes a pair of Leatt kneepads so much more superior to a pair of $25 of LALATECH? And why the hell are power pads so damn expensive, isn't it just foam?  Clark's start @ $149 and other like Nylonove are over $250.

Never in my life have I PUT THOUGHT into what BRAND of motorcycle jacket I buy, I just walk into the to the dealership and start trying them on.  Again, I know all about "you get what you pay for" and I have no doubt that most of the items in his video are "top of the line", but let's be real, most of it's sponsored that they gave him for free. So I ask of the community these two questions:

1. WHAT BUDGET GEAR WORKS NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE HIGH END?
 2. WHAT'S 1 ACCESSORY YOU WOULD NEVER SKIMP ON?

Edited April 3, 2022 by Vam Monaco

[Tawpie]

33 minutes ago, Vam Monaco said:

2. WHAT'S 1 ACCESSORY YOU WOULD NEVER SKIMP ON?

Brain bucket

34 minutes ago, Vam Monaco said:

1. WHAT BUDGET GEAR WORKS NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE HIGH END?

eWheels free wrist guards

[TantasStarke]

1 hour ago, Vam Monaco said:

1. WHAT BUDGET GEAR WORKS NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE HIGH END?

Motorcycle jackets, honestly. Myself and a lot of riders wear either the HWK motorcycle jacket on amazon, which is $60 and made of 600D cordua and has "ce rated" (99% sure fake at this price point) elbow, shoulder, and back pads, or they'll wear armor like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MTDR1B5/ . At the speeds EUC's go you don't really need a jacket designed to slide and not tear from 140+mph. I've personally slid at around 25mph in my HWK jacket and walked away with no upper body injuries, and the jacket only had a slight tear on the chest. I haven't crashed in my set of the other armor but I've heard it also holds up even in 40mph EUC cutouts.

Might be a bit controversial but I'll also say helmets. ECE rated motorcycle helmets start at around $80 on sites like Revzilla and can protect your head as well as a $400 helmet. Spending more money on a helmet does not equal more safety, it usually only equals more comforts. It can equal more safety, but a lot of time it doesn't.   

I agree with you that power pads are extremely overpriced, clark pads are just 3d printed pads that take less than $20 worth of plastic to print, yet they upsell for an insane markup.

[goatman]

first piece of cheap safety gear i never leave home without is a $10 hand mirror, its actually the only safety gear i use right now

im still on my ninebot one c but my msp controller should be here monday so

i was looking at $50 body armor from amazon and cheapish helmets but i  couldnt find a full face visor with a flip up chin bar so i can drink my coffee on the way to work

[TantasStarke]

13 minutes ago, goatman said:

first piece of cheap safety gear i never leave home without is a $10 hand mirror, its actually the only safety gear i use right now

im still on my ninebot one c but my msp controller should be here monday so

i was looking at $50 body armor from amazon and cheapish helmets but i  couldnt find a full face visor with a flip up chin bar so i can drink my coffee on the way to work

+ the hand mirror, when I can wear my summer gear I love having a mirror on me. 

The armors I talked about are good, the style I linked works well-enough in florida heat as well according a friend. 

You'll want a "modular helmet" to have a flip up chin bar, I'd recommend getting an ECE rated one over some unknown DOT rated amazon helmet personally, but in the end it's your call

[gon2fast]

22 hours ago, Vam Monaco said:

WHAT'S 1 ACCESSORY YOU WOULD NEVER SKIMP ON?

Safety Gear - I will always happily spend on quality safety gear. My experiences with the cheaper/knock-off stuff is that they fall apart/break/fail prematurely and you get little to no support from the vendors (IMHO).

22 hours ago, Vam Monaco said:

 WHAT BUDGET GEAR WORKS NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE HIGH END?

Pads for sure. I use surfboard stomp pads that run about $14 a set on Amazon. I have also replaced all of the shell hardware with upgraded hardware from the local DIY store. Probably cost about $4 to replace all shell screws. I also upgraded the awful trolley handle hardware on my MSP to a larger size which stay secure now. I added a bike light for night riding, probably ran me $5 on Amazon as well. The front bumpers are a furniture item that I found at the store for a few bucks. The 3D squirrel sticker cost me a pretty penny, but it was well worth it LOL. 

 

 

[Skeptikos]

On 4/2/2022 at 11:27 PM, TantasStarke said:

Motorcycle jackets, honestly. Myself and a lot of riders wear either the HWK motorcycle jacket on amazon, which is $60 and made of 600D cordua and has "ce rated" (99% sure fake at this price point) elbow, shoulder, and back pads, or they'll wear armor like this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MTDR1B5/ . At the speeds EUC's go you don't really need a jacket designed to slide and not tear from 140+mph. I've personally slid at around 25mph in my HWK jacket and walked away with no upper body injuries, and the jacket only had a slight tear on the chest. I haven't crashed in my set of the other armor but I've heard it also holds up even in 40mph EUC cutouts.

Ooooooh 😬 let's take a second look at this. [Long rant ahead. tl;dr buying safety gear from scammers is totally sketchy.]

First, to clarify, you're probably correct that the suspicious HWK armor is fake. Check if it's missing the CE mark on the armor, that's an easy way to tell. But also if it feels like cheap plastic or foam, it very likely is.

I bought cheap Viking Cycle pants on Amazon, advertised as having CE certified knee armor, that came with blatantly fake knee armor. And here's a video where a safety gear expert tests an absurdly cheap leather suit. He finds the suit also has fake armor:

Spoiler

So that's bad. I'm really sketched out by Viking Cycle lying to me. That's enough to convince me not to buy anymore of that junk. I'm not going to trust my safety to online fraudsters.

You might say it's just the armor that's fake, maybe the rest is salvageable. But it's really hard to tell. The material of my Viking Cycle pants feels similar to another Cordura jacket I have, so they really might be made out of abrasion-resistant Cordura. But I don't know enough about textiles to say for sure, or to say whether it's thick enough to provide the kind of protection I want. I'm also not able to evaluate the seam strength, which is obviously important because I don't want the pants to bust apart when I hit the asphalt.

The pants aren't CE certified for abrasion resistance (EN 17092), which is only required in Europe, so for all of these details I'm relying on my trust of Viking Cycle. And I have zero trust in Viking Cycle now. Therefore nope, I do not trust these pants. That's the same reaction I recommend for HWK and other fake gear sellers.

You mentioned crashing at 25mph. In reality 25mph isn't that fast for abrasion purposes, and chances are good that you would have also been fine in, say, a jean jacket. That it split open at 25mph is actually a bit worrisome, if that's the same material as the rest of the jacket. What happens at 35mph? You mention 140mph, which is a wild exaggeration. Lots of jackets much nicer than the HWK one are only certified for urban riding-- i.e., around 40mph. I think that's reasonable for EUC use. Though of course if you only plan to hit 25mph maybe you can make do without it.

---

 

OK, now the cheap hard shell armor jacket:

This is different. The description looks honest. A much bigger problem is that it isn't meant for high speed EUC crashes. First, the armor isn't CE certified. That's bad. Even though it's a European standard, CE certification for armor is widely used and expected in the US, and CE level 1 is a low level of protection. CE level 1 armor is what motorcyclists wear when they want to look fashionable riding around town. Lack of certification suggests this jacket doesn't even provide CE level 1 protection, and below CE level 1 is just reckless IMO.

Another clue that this jacket has subpar impact protection is that the description says they use EVA foam. That's the material you expect to see in skateboard pads, not motorcycle pads, because it's better for absorbing smaller impacts. It's easy to bottom out EVA foam. So it might be great if you trip and hit your elbow, but anything bigger (collision with car, or god forbid you land on your shoulder) and you're going to have a bad time.

And also look at all the mesh. The sellers spell it out in the description: "Motorcycle protective jacket is suitable for riding, skiing, skating, outdoor skating, off-road motorcycles and different extreme sports." I don't care if people have crashed in it before, I do not want to be wearing a jacket connected by a thin layer of mesh in a 40mph slide on asphalt. 🙅‍♂️ Even CE certified class A mesh jackets are kind of sketchy at that speed.

---

 

Phwew, ok, rant over. Let's return to the OP.

On 4/2/2022 at 9:31 PM, Vam Monaco said:

Nobody should cut corners on safety gear, but what technology makes a pair of Leatt kneepads so much more superior to a pair of $25 of LALATECH?

To start with, the Leatt kneepads are CE certified, and the LALATECH ones are not.

Second, the LALATECH kneepads are so bad that even the Amazon buyers are noticing. Here's the Amazon page if you weren't looking at it. There are a bunch of reviews saying "Broke after 3 uses". They sound awful.

You can definitely find some decent and legitimate knee+shin protectors for less than the Leatt ones, though. For the most part, they won't be as convenient or comfortable as the nice Leatt ones. Legitimate, respectable companies like Fox and Acerbis make their own versions (all for more than $25 though).

 

On 4/2/2022 at 9:31 PM, Vam Monaco said:

1. WHAT BUDGET GEAR WORKS NEARLY AS GOOD AS THE HIGH END?

Before answering this question, I think it's important to differentiate between "budget" gear and fraudulent gear, or gear that's inappropriate for EUC use. This seems to be a big problem among EUC riders, a problem that has already led to some very bad results.

If you define "budget" as "the cheapest gear I can find on Amazon", then my guess is that most of it is fake trash.

If you define "budget" as legitimate but less expensive gear, then sure, there are some alternatives. The Acerbis knee guards are CE certified and probably just as protective as the Leatt ones. This is a case where a bunch of people just happen to prefer the more expensive Leatt ones, for reasons that aren't necessarily safety related.

Helmets, kinda sorta. A lot of people get the downhill-certified ones, which are expensive ($250+). You can get legitimate, budget mountain bike helmets or motorcycle helmets for less, though there are good arguments that the downhill helmets are the better choice. Fun fact: Adam from the video made the budget choice on this one. His O'Neal Backflip is only certified as a bicycle helmet, not downhill. He changed his mind about this a bunch of times. At one point he was promoting expensive Shoei helmets, but then he went back to this one. So I don't think he's trying to upsell people on more expensive gear, for what it's worth.

 

This post is way too long. The short version is, budget gear is fine sometimes but don't let yourself get scammed.

[Skeptikos]

9 hours ago, Skeptikos said:

Another clue that this jacket has subpar impact protection is that the description says they use EVA foam. That's the material you expect to see in skateboard pads, not motorcycle pads, because it's better for absorbing smaller impacts. It's easy to bottom out EVA foam. So it might be great if you trip and hit your elbow, but anything bigger (collision with car, or god forbid you land on your shoulder) and you're going to have a bad time.

To clarify, I actually think skateboard pads are OK for the most part. They use EVA foam, but they tend to have pretty thick foam and/or multiple foam layers so that they provide real protection.

Correct me if I'm wrong @TantasStarke but from the picture on the Amazon listing it looks like that armor jacket only uses a single thin layer of EVA foam, and even that layer is perforated with a bunch of big holes. That would mean that jacket provides less impact protection than a set of generic skateboard pads. You can slide on the plastic at least, but to me, in terms of impacts, that is a frighteningly low level of protection

[RockyTop]

On 4/2/2022 at 9:31 PM, Vam Monaco said:

Clark's start @ $149 and other like Nylonove are over $250.

Seems expensive. … Until you seriously consider becoming a competitor. … Best wishes Clark. 
 

When you sell a product most of the money goes to taxes, selling fees, and capital…. then material.  The post office gets more of your money than I do. 

[TantasStarke]

59 minutes ago, Skeptikos said:

To clarify, I actually think skateboard pads are OK for the most part. They use EVA foam, but they tend to have pretty thick foam and/or multiple foam layers so that they provide real protection.

Correct me if I'm wrong @TantasStarke but from the picture on the Amazon listing it looks like that armor jacket only uses a single thin layer of EVA foam, and even that layer is perforated with a bunch of big holes. That would mean that jacket provides less impact protection than a set of generic skateboard pads. You can slide on the plastic at least, but to me, in terms of impacts, that is a frighteningly low level of protection

It's hard to see how thick the foam is all around since the pads are sewn onto the mesh material, seems to be thickest under the elbow pads. It is perforated.

If myself or my cats ever rip it up or it rips in a crash I'll revive this thread with info on the underside of the armor for future riders

[Vam Monaco]

On 4/4/2022 at 12:45 AM, Skeptikos said:

Ooooooh 😬 let's take a second look at this. [Long rant ahead. tl;dr buying safety gear from scammers is totally sketchy.]

First, to clarify, you're probably correct that the suspicious HWK armor is fake. Check if it's missing the CE mark on the armor, that's an easy way to tell. But also if it feels like cheap plastic or foam, it very likely is.

I bought cheap Viking Cycle pants on Amazon, advertised as having CE certified knee armor, that came with blatantly fake knee armor. And here's a video where a safety gear expert tests an absurdly cheap leather suit. He finds the suit also has fake armor:

  Hide contents

So that's bad. I'm really sketched out by Viking Cycle lying to me. That's enough to convince me not to buy anymore of that junk. I'm not going to trust my safety to online fraudsters.

You might say it's just the armor that's fake, maybe the rest is salvageable. But it's really hard to tell. The material of my Viking Cycle pants feels similar to another Cordura jacket I have, so they really might be made out of abrasion-resistant Cordura. But I don't know enough about textiles to say for sure, or to say whether it's thick enough to provide the kind of protection I want. I'm also not able to evaluate the seam strength, which is obviously important because I don't want the pants to bust apart when I hit the asphalt.

The pants aren't CE certified for abrasion resistance (EN 17092), which is only required in Europe, so for all of these details I'm relying on my trust of Viking Cycle. And I have zero trust in Viking Cycle now. Therefore nope, I do not trust these pants. That's the same reaction I recommend for HWK and other fake gear sellers.

You mentioned crashing at 25mph. In reality 25mph isn't that fast for abrasion purposes, and chances are good that you would have also been fine in, say, a jean jacket. That it split open at 25mph is actually a bit worrisome, if that's the same material as the rest of the jacket. What happens at 35mph? You mention 140mph, which is a wild exaggeration. Lots of jackets much nicer than the HWK one are only certified for urban riding-- i.e., around 40mph. I think that's reasonable for EUC use. Though of course if you only plan to hit 25mph maybe you can make do without it.

---

 

OK, now the cheap hard shell armor jacket:

This is different. The description looks honest. A much bigger problem is that it isn't meant for high speed EUC crashes. First, the armor isn't CE certified. That's bad. Even though it's a European standard, CE certification for armor is widely used and expected in the US, and CE level 1 is a low level of protection. CE level 1 armor is what motorcyclists wear when they want to look fashionable riding around town. Lack of certification suggests this jacket doesn't even provide CE level 1 protection, and below CE level 1 is just reckless IMO.

Another clue that this jacket has subpar impact protection is that the description says they use EVA foam. That's the material you expect to see in skateboard pads, not motorcycle pads, because it's better for absorbing smaller impacts. It's easy to bottom out EVA foam. So it might be great if you trip and hit your elbow, but anything bigger (collision with car, or god forbid you land on your shoulder) and you're going to have a bad time.

And also look at all the mesh. The sellers spell it out in the description: "Motorcycle protective jacket is suitable for riding, skiing, skating, outdoor skating, off-road motorcycles and different extreme sports." I don't care if people have crashed in it before, I do not want to be wearing a jacket connected by a thin layer of mesh in a 40mph slide on asphalt. 🙅‍♂️ Even CE certified class A mesh jackets are kind of sketchy at that speed.

---

 

Phwew, ok, rant over. Let's return to the OP.

To start with, the Leatt kneepads are CE certified, and the LALATECH ones are not.

Second, the LALATECH kneepads are so bad that even the Amazon buyers are noticing. Here's the Amazon page if you weren't looking at it. There are a bunch of reviews saying "Broke after 3 uses". They sound awful.

You can definitely find some decent and legitimate knee+shin protectors for less than the Leatt ones, though. For the most part, they won't be as convenient or comfortable as the nice Leatt ones. Legitimate, respectable companies like Fox and Acerbis make their own versions (all for more than $25 though).

 

Before answering this question, I think it's important to differentiate between "budget" gear and fraudulent gear, or gear that's inappropriate for EUC use. This seems to be a big problem among EUC riders, a problem that has already led to some very bad results.

If you define "budget" as "the cheapest gear I can find on Amazon", then my guess is that most of it is fake trash.

If you define "budget" as legitimate but less expensive gear, then sure, there are some alternatives. The Acerbis knee guards are CE certified and probably just as protective as the Leatt ones. This is a case where a bunch of people just happen to prefer the more expensive Leatt ones, for reasons that aren't necessarily safety related.

Helmets, kinda sorta. A lot of people get the downhill-certified ones, which are expensive ($250+). You can get legitimate, budget mountain bike helmets or motorcycle helmets for less, though there are good arguments that the downhill helmets are the better choice. Fun fact: Adam from the video made the budget choice on this one. His O'Neal Backflip is only certified as a bicycle helmet, not downhill. He changed his mind about this a bunch of times. At one point he was promoting expensive Shoei helmets, but then he went back to this one. So I don't think he's trying to upsell people on more expensive gear, for what it's worth.

 

This post is way too long. The short version is, budget gear is fine sometimes but don't let yourself get scammed.

Thanks, I bought the Acerbis guards and they’re comfy and I feel safe knowing that they’re CE certified.

[Murdomeek]

First of all, this isn't a cheap hobby/sport.  We have wheels that rival the cost of motorcycles. Spending a few extra hundred on accessory equipment isn't going to break anyones bank.  If it does, you need a more affordable hobby. 

What cyclist is going to spend $7k on a carbon road bike, and have $20 walmart pedals attached to it?

 

Second, you have no idea how much it costs to 3d print or cnc anything do you?  Download generic powerpads off thingiverse. And upload to 3D hubs requesting TPU material. You'll find that anyone willing to print two 20+ hr prints with an exotic hard to print material will charge you MORE than clark pads. And they don't even have any sort of warranty or structural tests done of them. And they don't design new revisions of the pads. 

 

Now take any honeycomb pedal file and send it to a local cnc shop to get made for you. It'll also cost you MORE than what clark and others are selling them for.   Again, the shop isn't even designing the file for you and going through dozens of prototypes and wasted materials for the perfect design. 

 

You want budget power pads? $5 foam yoga block and a file will do just fine.  want budget spiked pedals?  drill and tap M3 screws onto the original pedals. <$2 worth of screws

Don't want an ugly pad/pedal? Don't want to waste an afternoon doing it yourself? Don't want to accidentally screw up and start over?  That's exactly what you're paying for...

 

That being said, there are $30 leatt clones on aliexpress. Pretty sure its from the same factory. Wrist mirrors are $5 on aliexpress. Plenty of $90 powerpads on aliexpress

Don't wanna wait 1-2 months for shipping?  Guess thats also what you pay for. 

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by Murdomeek

[Vam Monaco]

On 4/13/2022 at 5:19 PM, Murdomeek said:

First of all, this isn't a cheap hobby/sport.  We have wheels that rival the cost of motorcycles. Spending a few extra hundred on accessory equipment isn't going to break anyones bank.  If it does, you need a more affordable hobby. 

What cyclist is going to spend $7k on a carbon road bike, and have $20 walmart pedals attached to it?

 

Second, you have no idea how much it costs to 3d print or cnc anything do you?  Download generic powerpads off thingiverse. And upload to 3D hubs requesting TPU material. You'll find that anyone willing to print two 20+ hr prints with an exotic hard to print material will charge you MORE than clark pads. And they don't even have any sort of warranty or structural tests done of them. And they don't design new revisions of the pads. 

 

Now take any honeycomb pedal file and send it to a local cnc shop to get made for you. It'll also cost you MORE than what clark and others are selling them for.   Again, the shop isn't even designing the file for you and going through dozens of prototypes and wasted materials for the perfect design. 

 

You want budget power pads? $5 foam yoga block and a file will do just fine.  want budget spiked pedals?  drill and tap M3 screws onto the original pedals. <$2 worth of screws

Don't want an ugly pad/pedal? Don't want to waste an afternoon doing it yourself? Don't want to accidentally screw up and start over?  That's exactly what you're paying for...

 

That being said, there are $30 leatt clones on aliexpress. Pretty sure its from the same factory. Wrist mirrors are $5 on aliexpress. Plenty of $90 powerpads on aliexpress

Don't wanna wait 1-2 months for shipping?  Guess thats also what you pay for. 

 

I got the mirror and the powerpads from Ali, thanks!

[goatman]

im probably just going to go with some lazy rolling jeans, my amazon helmet and maybe some of those hockey puck gloves like this guy

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by goatman

[Skeptikos]

On 4/13/2022 at 6:19 PM, Murdomeek said:

That being said, there are $30 leatt clones on aliexpress. Pretty sure its from the same factory.

It's practically certain that they aren't from the same factory. Apparently knockoffs are a big business these days, and using the same factory is just not how they work. They're making something different and cheaper.

 

@TantasStarke I found a picture of the HWK armor on Amazon. If that's the armor you have it's definitely fake. This stuff would only protect from small impacts (less than generic skateboard pads) and it definitely isn't CE certified. Usually this is the kind of thing companies put in their jackets as a placeholder, when they say it doesn't come with armor. That back pad looks really similar to the fake armor in the cheap leather suit from the video I posted earlier.

Spoiler

 

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what material my Viking Cycle pants are made out of. They say 600D Cordura, but it's really hard tell without going to a chemistry lab.

One clue is that it didn't come with tags advertising the Cordura, so to me that says it's probably not Cordura. (The price is probably another big clue that it's not Cordura.) I've noticed that brand name materials, like D3O etc., are pretty big on advertising their stuff when it's in clothing, so it's odd for the Cordura tags not to be there.

It's thicker than a backpack I have that's 200D nylon. So right now my guess is that it's 300D or 600D generic nylon. Which is decent but not as good as Cordura.

If someone knows a way to figure this out at home, I'll give it a shot. I don't mind cutting it apart if needed since I have other pants.

[TantasStarke]

Cordura is just a brand name, the only thing that matters is the denier of the nylon. Ideally 1000D or more, but 600D should be fine for low speed EUC slides/tumbles

[TantasStarke]

Unless they're outright lying, the elbow pads in the HWK jacket have EN 1621-1 on them which is the relevant certification for elbow pads.

I'll edit this post with a picture in ~30 minutes when I get a chance. I'll also take a look at the other pads in it

https://imgur.com/a/72f1B4P

The elbow and shoulder pads say 1621-1 and the backpad says 1621-2, which are the correct ratings assuming they're real.

Edited April 18, 2022 by TantasStarke

[Skeptikos]

2 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

Cordura is just a brand name, the only thing that matters is the denier of the nylon. Ideally 1000D or more, but 600D should be fine for low speed EUC slides/tumbles

No definitely not the same. Cordura has greater abrasion resistance. Apparently it's fuzzier than regular nylon, which is good for strange physics reasons. There are different types of nylon and different weave patterns and probably other things that all make a difference. 600D nylon isn't bad, but it's not the Cordura that Viking Cycle claims.

2 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

Unless they're outright lying, the elbow pads in the HWK jacket have EN 1621-1 on them which is the relevant certification for elbow pads.

I'll edit this post with a picture in ~30 minutes when I get a chance. I'll also take a look at the other pads in it

https://imgur.com/a/72f1B4P

The elbow and shoulder pads say 1621-1 and the backpad says 1621-2, which are the correct ratings assuming they're real.

Ok. Those definitely look similar to the fake pads from the video, though not exactly the same. Here's the part of the video where they look at the pads (the yellow foam pads are fake, black ones real):

Spoiler

I haven't seen a CE certified pad that's just plain foam before, from any legit seller at any price. Those pads look like foam so I think it's very highly likely that they're fake (and that HWK is outright lying, the same as Viking Cycle). A set of real pads probably cost about as much as you paid for the jacket, so cost-wise it doesn't add up either.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Skeptikos
clarifying

[TantasStarke]

2 hours ago, Skeptikos said:

No definitely not the same. Cordura has greater abrasion resistance. Apparently it's fuzzier than regular nylon, which is good for strange physics reasons. There are different types of nylon and different weave patterns and probably other things that all make a difference. 600D nylon isn't bad, but it's not the Cordura that Viking Cycle claims.

Ok. Those definitely look similar to the fake pads from the video, though not exactly the same. Here's the part of the video where they look at the pads (the yellow foam pads are fake, black ones real):

  Reveal hidden contents

I haven't seen a CE certified pad that's just plain foam before, from any legit seller at any price. Those pads look like foam so I think it's very highly likely that they're fake (and that HWK is outright lying, the same as Viking Cycle). A set of real pads probably cost about as much as you paid for the jacket, so cost-wise it doesn't add up either.

In this Fortnine video he says that Cordura is just a brand name, and "doesn't mean shit". According to him the only thing that makes Cordura or ballistic nylon mean shit is the denier. Ideally over 1000. 

Revzilla sells CE pads (Which I would assume are legit being sold by a reputable company) starting at around $12 a piece. I believe that unbranded wholesale pads could be bought by a manufacturer (like HWK) for pennies on the dollar. A lot of them on Revzilla also look like the yellow pads in the HWK. I'm not saying that they're legit but it is plausible. The whole jacket very likely doesn't have a CE rating, but it is possible that the wholesale pads actually do. The HWK armor also looks similar to the smiliarly priced Bilt jacket on Revzilla (although it has since been discontinued). Includes 600D nylon and shoulder+elbow pads. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/bilt-blast-waterproof-jacket

Edited April 18, 2022 by TantasStarke

[Eucner]

4 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

The elbow and shoulder pads say 1621-1 and the backpad says 1621-2, which are the correct ratings assuming they're real.

The marking is incorrect. It should look like this:

These are fake pads, as @Skeptikos already assumed.

[Skeptikos]

Kind of exhausting to have to debate this when I'm just making some simple points...

3 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

In this Fortnine video he says that Cordura is just a brand name, and "doesn't mean shit". According to him the only thing that makes Cordura or ballistic nylon mean shit is the denier. Ideally over 1000. 

I don't have test data on me at the moment but you and Ryan appear to be the only two people on the internet who believe this. Unfortunately this video is from before he started citing sources at the end of the videos. What I read says Cordura has twice the abrasion resistance of regular nylon. Maybe someone can search through MotoCAP to make some comparisons

23 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

Revzilla sells CE pads (Which I would assume are legit being sold by a reputable company) starting at around $12 a piece. I believe that unbranded wholesale pads could be bought by a manufacturer (like HWK) for pennies on the dollar.

that's not a real thing

31 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

A lot of them on Revzilla also look like the yellow pads in the HWK.

No, they're a totally different material. Almost all the pads that go in jackets are viscoelastic foam. The only thing the two pads have in common is that they're both yellow. If they color the foam orange that doesn't make it D3O.... The pictures you posted show a cheaper EVA foam. It's easy to tell because viscoelastic foam doesn't get wrinkly creases like you can see on your pads.

34 minutes ago, TantasStarke said:

The HWK armor also looks similar to the smiliarly priced Bilt jacket on Revzilla (although it has since been discontinued). Includes 600D nylon and shoulder+elbow pads. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/bilt-blast-waterproof-jacket

Good example. That Bilt jacket only has elbow and shoulder pads, because back pads are more expensive. Factor in $40 for the back pad and the price doesn't work anymore.

They don't say the jacket is made of nylon, either, which means it could be polyester. Polyester is another common textile jacket material. It's cheaper and I think it's supposed to be more waterproof.

[TantasStarke]

6 hours ago, Skeptikos said:

Kind of exhausting to have to debate this when I'm just making some simple points...

I don't have test data on me at the moment but you and Ryan appear to be the only two people on the internet who believe this. Unfortunately this video is from before he started citing sources at the end of the videos. What I read says Cordura has twice the abrasion resistance of regular nylon. Maybe someone can search through MotoCAP to make some comparisons

that's not a real thing

No, they're a totally different material. Almost all the pads that go in jackets are viscoelastic foam. The only thing the two pads have in common is that they're both yellow. If they color the foam orange that doesn't make it D3O.... The pictures you posted show a cheaper EVA foam. It's easy to tell because viscoelastic foam doesn't get wrinkly creases like you can see on your pads.

Good example. That Bilt jacket only has elbow and shoulder pads, because back pads are more expensive. Factor in $40 for the back pad and the price doesn't work anymore.

They don't say the jacket is made of nylon, either, which means it could be polyester. Polyester is another common textile jacket material. It's cheaper and I think it's supposed to be more waterproof.

I didn't think we were debating anything? I haven't denied any of your claims, and I'm not saying that it is fake armor, I'm saying that it could be real.

I'd like to see the info for Cordura because everything I've heard is that it's just a brand name, the only thing that matters is the denier of the fiber.

Saying that manufacturers don't get discounts on products is insane, it 100% costs manufacturers a lot less than $12 per pad for a manufacturer than a consumer.

I don't know about the materials that go into it but all the armor has to do to meet the certification is transmit less than the amount of kilonewtons (I forgot how much, I think 18?), no idea if these do as I don't have a lab to test them  

That Bilt jacket also has 1200d fabric on the slide zones while AFAIK the HWK jacket is 600D allthroughout, that would definitely lower the cost to be able to afford a backpad. Backpads do NOT cost manufacturers $40 when we can buy them for around $20 https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/first-manufacturing-back-protector?sku_id=1807933 A manufacturer like HWK, Bilt, Icon, etc. can source armor for a hell of a lot cheaper than it costs us to buy it seperately.

The Bilt jacket said it has a waterproof layer which I would assume is a polyester. I've never heard of a jacket using polyester for the sliding layer

Again I am NOT saying the HWK jacket armor is real orfake, but without any actual evidence I'm not gonna say it is fake. The pads have the CE rating stamped into it, and while it may be fake I don't have the skillset or the desire to prove otherwise
 

 

6 hours ago, Eucner said:

The marking is incorrect. It should look like this:

These are fake pads, as @Skeptikos already assumed.

Here's some real armor from Revzilla that doesn't have that sticker on it. As seen if you zoom in it just has CE and the numbers stamped into it https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/scorpion-safe-tech-ce-1-elbow-armor?sku_id=10024251

Edited April 19, 2022 by TantasStarke

[Eucner]

4 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

Here's some real armor from Revzilla that doesn't have that sticker on it. As seen if you zoom in it just has CE and the numbers stamped into it https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/scorpion-safe-tech-ce-1-elbow-armor?sku_id=10024251

The standard specifies also the markings. If it is not like in the picture, it is not according to standard. There might be another marking on the other side of Scorpion pad.