Are there any 2022 news on Inmotion V13 Raptor ?

[UniVehje]

3 hours ago, Lex Smith said:

Surely it has to be at least a 20" wheel if they're talking 90kph top speed.  It's what I am hoping for anyway.  If they can combine what they have learnt from the V11 and V12 they should have a strong competitor for the S20.

It will have a 20” tire just like V11 and S18 or 18” tire just like S20 and Sherman or 14” rim just like MSP and EXN. Pick your poison. But I hope it wont be any bigger than that to retain responsiveness. 

[RamonatheCat]

5 hours ago, Lex Smith said:

Surely it has to be at least a 20" wheel if they're talking 90kph top speed.  It's what I am hoping for anyway.  If they can combine what they have learnt from the V11 and V12 they should have a strong competitor for the S20.

I would also think it would be at least a 20 inch wheel. I’m personally hoping for far more than the s20 in terms of range at least. Really hope they publish specs this spring.

[RamonatheCat]

2 hours ago, UniVehje said:

It will have a 20” tire just like V11 and S18 or 18” tire just like S20 and Sherman or 14” rim just like MSP and EXN. Pick your poison. But I hope it wont be any bigger than that to retain responsiveness. 

This is backwards (the first two are 18 inch wheels) but you make a good point!

[Silverfish]

On 2/9/2022 at 5:31 PM, RamonatheCat said:

My feeling is that having a wheel capable of insanely high speeds is nice cause I can still ride at 20mph and have a huge cushion knowing that I'm not challenging my wheel at all. Actually going anywhere near 90kph seems like a death wish imho. 

wheels are already capable of insanely high speeds that leave you a hug cushion at 20 mph. You don't really need any more cushion.

[UniVehje]

1 hour ago, RamonatheCat said:

This is backwards (the first two are 18 inch wheels) but you make a good point!

No, my point is they’re not backwards. They are all the same size. There are no difference between 18”, 19” and 20” wheels. They all use the same 18x3” or 2.75-14 tires. I don’t care what standard you use as long as they’re not mixed. 

[Lex Smith]

12 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

No, my point is they’re not backwards. They are all the same size. There are no difference between 18”, 19” and 20” wheels. They all use the same 18x3” or 2.75-14 tires. I don’t care what standard you use as long as they’re not mixed. 

I'm confused.  . . . How can they be mixed when they only have one tyre?  And I doubt they'll put an 18" tyre on a 20" rim.

[UniVehje]

30 minutes ago, Lex Smith said:

I'm confused.  . . . How can they be mixed when they only have one tyre?  And I doubt they'll put an 18" tyre on a 20" rim.

They all have the same size rim (14”) and you can put the tire from S20 or Sherman to V11 or S18. The 20” is just marketing. It is close to real diameter, though. But V11 and S18 have the same real diameter. They really all take the same size tire. Knobbies add a bit but not much. If you call one 20” wheel then call the others same. If you look at the Sherman or S20 tires they will read 18x3 on the side (or 2.75-14). 20”, 19” and 18” wheels are the same size, the rest is just marketing. 

[.....]

1 hour ago, Lex Smith said:

I'm confused.  . . . How can they be mixed when they only have one tyre?  And I doubt they'll put an 18" tyre on a 20" rim.

Its confusing because the EUC companies make it that way. I mean WHO in their right minds would simply market a wheel by its rim size? Everyone knows bigger is better. Its total bullsh*t really. This kind of thing is just how the euc companies and marketing is. If you try to think about it rationally and/or in a precise and simple manner, you will get it wrong. If what you come to believe in euc specs, makes sense, you're wrong. Forget what you thought you knew and remember that youll never be able to count on what you learn, to remain constantly applicable. Same applies for weights, speeds, batteries and most other measured specs. Its not like ANY of those forms of measurements are standardized yet...

a V13 now? You have GOT to be kidding me? Why do these wheels keep coming out in new forms, WAY before the previous has even been properly addressed? Are we racing with Baskin Robbins now, rather than worrying about quality and post sales support? Even a monkey can type a novel if you make them just keep clacking long enough. However, youll NEVER get him to proof read it.

Edited February 13, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[Lex Smith]

3 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

a V13 now? You have GOT to be kidding me? Why do these wheels keep coming out in new forms, WAY before the previous has even been properly addressed? Are we racing with Baskin Robbins now, rather than worrying about quality and post sales support? Even a monkey can type a novel if you make them just keep clacking long enough. However, youll NEVER get him to proof read it.

The V11 issues appear resolved and the V12 issues are being worked on and I would be surprised if those lessons aren't ready to be applied by the time the V13 goes into production.   I love my V11 and feel a modicum of loyalty to Inmotion for supplying me a great product but I am ready for a faster suspension wheel and if they weren't making noises of creating that I would be chasing an S20 for sure.  As it is I will wait and see what they offer. 

[.....]

Lets hope you are right. It DOES make sense that each new model would be a little 'better' than any previous. It also makes sense that they would learn from each endeavor since the inception of euc manufacture. It also makes sense that we wouldnt see the same problems occurring over and over from generation to generation. Of course, I've already stated what it is, should you think it makes sense... Hope springs eternal!

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[Lex Smith]

4 hours ago, UniVehje said:

They all have the same size rim (14”) and you can put the tire from S20 or Sherman to V11 or S18. The 20” is just marketing. It is close to real diameter, though. But V11 and S18 have the same real diameter. They really all take the same size tire. Knobbies add a bit but not much. If you call one 20” wheel then call the others same. If you look at the Sherman or S20 tires they will read 18x3 on the side (or 2.75-14). 20”, 19” and 18” wheels are the same size, the rest is just marketing. 

I'm flabbergasted!   But thanks for the heads up.   Will be sure to check Tyre size when making my next purchase.   I feel like 90kph on an 18" tyre could be sketchy.

[Lex Smith]

2 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Lets hope you are right. It DOES make sense that each new model would be a little 'better' than any previous. It also makes sense that they would learn from each endeavor since the inception of euc manufacture. It also makes sense that we wouldnt see the same problems occurring over and over from generation to generation. Of course, I've already stated what it is, should you think it makes sense... Hope springs eternal!

 

I live on hope . . . And not being an early adopter  😀 

[.....]

6 minutes ago, Lex Smith said:

I'm flabbergasted!   But thanks for the heads up.   Will be sure to check Tyre size when making my next purchase.   I feel like 90kph on an 18" tyre could be sketchy.

My Sherman manages 50mph just fine on a 14" rim. The bar has been set, now its time to see who can emulate it with more safety and comfort. Or, surpass it with raw speed. My old chevette had 14" rims and could muster about 80mph on interstate. Yeah, 55mph is kicking some a** on a single wheel, but I dont see any fundmental reason it can't be done. Of course, us riders will need start exploring aerodynamics a lot more, as we push these wind speeds.  Proper rim alloy, balance and design, becomes more important as we go faster with more weight. Tire selection also starts becoming imperative as well. So, whos gna design the first click in style pedals, like we see on bikes and snowboards?

Edited February 13, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[techyiam]

12 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Lets hope you are right. It DOES make sense that each new model would be a little 'better' than any previous. It also makes sense that they would learn from each endeavor since the inception of euc manufacture. It also makes sense that we wouldnt see the same problems occurring over and over from generation to generation. Of course, I've already stated what it is, should you think it makes sense... Hope springs eternal!

 

But you are still not wrong. They got the drive board (mosfets and who knows what else) wrong primarily because they went from 84v to 100.8. In other words, they still can get things wrong when they attempt to play catch up, or raise the bar with new tech, or at least with tech that are new to them. Mind you, no euc manufacturers is immune to this.

But since their future flagship V13 is all about breaking new barriers, I am going to wait for quite a few batches, before I would consder it. It really is a nightmare to spend good money on a NEW euc, and then to find out that it can cut out on you for conditions you cannot predict a priori. For normal cutouts, one can mitigate the risks because the onset conditions are known.

If I am not mistaken, you also was left with a bad experience but on your S18 purchase. It really can temper one's eagerness to buy the latest and greatest. 

Edited February 14, 2022 by techyiam

[RamonatheCat]

1 minute ago, techyiam said:

But you are still not wrong. They got the drive board (mosfets and who knows what else) wrong primarily because they went from 84v to 100.8. In other words, they still can get things wrong when they attempt to play catch up, or raise the bar with new tech, or at least with tech that are new to them. Mind you, no euc manufacturers are immune to this.

But since their future flagship V13 is all about breaking new barriers, I am going to wait for quite a few batches, before I would consder it. It really is a nightmare to spend good money to buy a NEW euc, and then to find out that it can cut out on you for conditions you cannot predict a priori. For normal cutouts, one can mitigate the risks because the onset conditions are known.

If I am not mistaken, you also was left with a bad experience but on your S18 purchase. It really can temper one's eagerness to buy the latest and greatest. 

Even if there was a cut-out which would definitely suck, it seems like riding at relatively low speeds one could probably walk it off without serious injuries. And the 1st batch would be under warranty...Idk, I definitely don't wanna wait for multiple batches before I upgrade my wheel haha

[techyiam]

50 minutes ago, RamonatheCat said:

Even if there was a cut-out which would definitely suck, it seems like riding at relatively low speeds one could probably walk it off without serious injuries. And the 1st batch would be under warranty...Idk, I definitely don't wanna wait for multiple batches before I upgrade my wheel haha

Unfortunately, there was a reported case where the rider was not going at low speeds and ended up in emergency. There is no guarantee that all the cutouts from this design defect are at low speeds. In fact, Inmotion's own official warning advise their customers to ride at low speeds, and gear up.

I know what you mean, having to wait out the batches really suck.

Edited February 14, 2022 by techyiam

[Paul A]

Inmotion V12 HOW TO REPLACE THE MOS

Jan 28, 2022

Fabrice D.

 

 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Paul A said:

Inmotion V12 HOW TO REPLACE THE MOS

Jan 28, 2022

Fabrice D.

 

Thank you for pointing out this video. But repairing, or getting a new driver board with the same mosfet part numbers is not going to resolve my complaint with the defective design.

Madpack posted a video addressing the questions that were asked by the euc community concerning the mosfets and the driver board defect. One of the questions relates to V12's that have passed the Inmotion spin test but still continues to cutout. When asked why can this happen, and can the spin test be trusted, Inmotion only replied that they will continue to monitor the effectiveness of the spin test, and adust the test in time. 

They have not announced an absolute resolution to the V12 driver board defect yet.

Inmotion has hinted that eventually all new V12 driver boards will have a new board design to go with the more robust mosfets. I believe the new mosfets can't physically fit on existing boards even if the existing circuitry is fine.

The scary part for me was that Inmotion actually admitted that the spin test does indeed test the VDS of each mosfet. The one thing that a few people have been warning us about. It almost seemed plausible that robust mosfets can also be interpreted as not under spec'd mosfets.

Edited February 14, 2022 by techyiam

[Paul A]

Making repairs yourself could make things worse too....void the warranty, cause more damage, assume all responsibility for anything else to goes wrong....

Paying thousands of dollars for a defective product, should make use of the warranty to have it repaired.

Early adopters have been the guinea pigs.

[UniVehje]

5 hours ago, Lex Smith said:

I feel like 90kph on an 18" tyre could be sketchy.

90 kph on a one-wheeled self balancing vehicle is sketchy. For that speed there are already a good selection tried and trustworthy two-wheeled toys. Not that it can’t be done on a unicycle. But if you’re riding on a motorway you probably should have a vehicle than has passed inspection etc. On an EUC I would rather have suspension than bigger tire for those speeds. The only actually bigger tires are on Monsters and Abrams. 

[InfiniteWheelie]

Any news on this? We're now in March.

[RamonatheCat]

I'll just echo the same question lol - really excited to see what they release!

[Nostris]

On 2/14/2022 at 3:41 AM, techyiam said:

Thank you for pointing out this video. But repairing, or getting a new driver board with the same mosfet part numbers is not going to resolve my complaint with the defective design.

Madpack posted a video addressing the questions that were asked by the euc community concerning the mosfets and the driver board defect. One of the questions relates to V12's that have passed the Inmotion spin test but still continues to cutout. When asked why can this happen, and can the spin test be trusted, Inmotion only replied that they will continue to monitor the effectiveness of the spin test, and adust the test in time. 

They have not announced an absolute resolution to the V12 driver board defect yet.

Inmotion has hinted that eventually all new V12 driver boards will have a new board design to go with the more robust mosfets. I believe the new mosfets can't physically fit on existing boards even if the existing circuitry is fine.

The scary part for me was that Inmotion actually admitted that the spin test does indeed test the VDS of each mosfet. The one thing that a few people have been warning us about. It almost seemed plausible that robust mosfets can also be interpreted as not under spec'd mosfets.

TBH…I’m not actually convinced the problem is a…Defective Design.  If it was, surely all the V12’s would be cutting out…and obviously this is not the case.. Guys like the famous WrongWay Adam, Chooch and others, wring the necks of their V12’s….riding them far harder than 99% of people would…and they have suffered no problems. I am far more of the opinion that some wheels were assembled with weak mosfets, that then fail. 

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Nostris said:

TBH…I’m not actually convinced the problem is a…Defective Design.

Perhaps not "defective", but a poor design will experience more unexpected failures than a 'good' or 'better' one. Generally speaking, when something fails more often than you can attribute to random chance (and there is random chance involve here too), then one looks for causes... and they're usually because a design doesn't have enough margin to be able to tolerate the random tolerance stackups that real life use will impose. And that causes a failure in the assembly. A truly defective design would fail quite often—and there have been enough failures for me to put this one into that class. Sure, there are many wheels that are not having problems, but I'd bet it's only a matter of time because IM did make a real, documented, design error.

Not counting the stress test failures, the bulk of the in-use failures have been at very low speeds, only a handful have happened during hard riding. Just something to remember.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Tawpie

[Forwardnbak]

I think some kind of statement would help many people feel better about things. 
It’s clear there is a problem. 

just avoiding announcement dates without an explanation is not winning friends to the brand. Lack of upfront info about v12 is also detrimental to the brand. 
I’m a fan of INMOTION but this is worrying as it shows that they would rather sweep issues away than be upfront with us customers. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Forwardnbak