Street tire on KS18XL (Metzeler Sportec 70/90 R14)

[digithom]

39 minutes ago, Funky said:

Dam i want to test my wheel so much now. lol

Why don't you take a vacation in a sunny place and test your new tire ? 
 

[Eucner]

You defined your theory here.

On 1/23/2022 at 9:30 PM, digithom said:

When the euc is running on a flat surface, the perfect condition, everything seems perfect but when the road is inclined to one side, you suddenly feel your euc trying to tilt strongly.

This is given by the hardness of the tread, it is hard to deformate and keeps his shape, this result in a push on one sie of the tire when it is running on a side inclined surface, resulting in a tilt of the euc.

The stock wheel instead is softer ad deformates under the weight and the contact point with ground is most near to the center respect to an hard tread tire and tilt effect is a lot reduced.

Let's see if it would be easier to understand what I tried to point out in my previous posts by comparing two examples of totally different riding experiences. I assume the combined weight of the rider and wheel to be 95 kg. The road inclination will be 18°, as it is in the drawing. 

The Case of Good Ol' Tire

The old (stock CYT H-5102) tire with 1,6 bar pressure, flexible carcass, tire is considered to be supported only by the air pressure. The tire width is 61 mm and profile is round. The tire drop would be about 13,9 mm, moment distance 5,1 mm and tilt moment 4,8 Nm.

The Case of Bad New Tire

The Metzeler Sportec Street 70/90-14 34S tire with 1,9 bar pressure, stiff carcass considered to be approximately equivalent to additional 0,8 bar of air pressure. The tire width is 65,1 mm and profile is forced into a round shape. The tire drop would be about 7,3 mm, moment distance 7,8 mm and tilt moment 7,3 Nm.

The Comparison

The old tires moment distance and tilt moment is 34% lower than the new ones. If both tire's would have been exactly same size, this would have dropped to 27%. The actual difference could be even lower, because old tire is flexing more, moving to downhill and creating increased moment distance. However this is still a significant reduction in tilt moment, but not big enough to explain the nigh and day difference in tire's riding behavior. The missing part here is a cone effect.

The Cone Effect

When looking at the drawing of tire on inclined surface, we can see that the radius from motor axle to the left edge of contact patch is shorter than to the right edge. At each revolution the left edge travels shorter distance than the right edge. This turns the wheel to left, which surprisingly happens to be uphill. The actual amount of turning is less than the distance difference between left and right edges, because there is also some slippage. The amount of it depends on the road surface, thread pattern, inclination angle and size of the contact patch. In certain cases the cone effect can pretty much neutralize the remaining tilt moment.

I hope this helps.

[mrelwood]

 

On 1/6/2022 at 1:06 PM, digithom said:

If I could find a street treaded specific euc tire, of the standard 18x2,5 size, I whould have preferred it for shure, but I didn't find any

The Chao Yang H-5102 is the only factory installed EUC tire that I consider being a (nearly) 100% street tire. The behavior is predictable, and at some point it was even the stock tire for the 10XL. It’s the one that @ShanesPlanet refers to as the “Nike tire”. If you want a street tire, that one is surely the safest bet.

 But please, PLEASE buy yourself three plastic tire replacement tools before you do another tire swap! I find plastic tire spoons with a metal core to be simply great, and sufficient for 14” (rim) MC tires. Also use an ample amount of lubrication to save yourself a bucketful of blood, sweat and tears. Dish soap does just fine, an actual tire lube even better. You don’t want to destroy your rim for saving literally just a few bucks.

Then for the hot topic of forces included when riding on an angled road. While I’m very interested in understanding the physics behind stuff, riding an EUC has such a combination of forces that I can’t even pretend that I’d understand them all. I do have a good bit of experience though.

I asked a local Z10 rider to ride straight through a spot that had a pretty steep angle to the left. I suspected what would happen, but I wasn’t able to guesstimate the severity. The rider managed to ride straight, but only by opening his legs a lot in order to let the wheel tilt. And the wheel tilted to the left, in the direction of the downhill.

 If the wheel would’ve veered uphill, the rider would’ve started falling in the direction of the downhill. But that he was able to ride visibly dead straight by letting the wheel tilt downhill, makes it seem that the camber effect is not the main force in play.

 So, what does this mean? Well, dunno, really. @Eucner’s physics are sound, but it does seem that the combination of this and other forces is strong enough to overcome the camber effect alone.

[Funky]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:22 PM, Eucner said:

You defined your theory here.

Let's see if it would be easier to understand what I tried to point out in my previous posts by comparing two examples of totally different riding experiences. I assume the combined weight of the rider and wheel to be 95 kg. The road inclination will be 18°, as it is in the drawing. 

The Case of Good Ol' Tire

The old (stock CYT H-5102) tire with 1,6 bar pressure, flexible carcass, tire is considered to be supported only by the air pressure. The tire width is 61 mm and profile is round. The tire drop would be about 13,9 mm, moment distance 5,1 mm and tilt moment 4,8 Nm.

The Case of Bad New Tire

The Metzeler Sportec Street 70/90-14 34S tire with 1,9 bar pressure, stiff carcass considered to be approximately equivalent to additional 0,8 bar of air pressure. The tire width is 65,1 mm and profile is forced into a round shape. The tire drop would be about 7,3 mm, moment distance 7,8 mm and tilt moment 7,3 Nm.

The Comparison

The old tires moment distance and tilt moment is 34% lower than the new ones. If both tire's would have been exactly same size, this would have dropped to 27%. The actual difference could be even lower, because old tire is flexing more, moving to downhill and creating increased moment distance. However this is still a significant reduction in tilt moment, but not big enough to explain the nigh and day difference in tire's riding behavior. The missing part here is a cone effect.

The Cone Effect

When looking at the drawing of tire on inclined surface, we can see that the radius from motor axle to the left edge of contact patch is shorter than to the right edge. At each revolution the left edge travels shorter distance than the right edge. This turns the wheel to left, which surprisingly happens to be uphill. The actual amount of turning is less than the distance difference between left and right edges, because there is also some slippage. The amount of it depends on the road surface, thread pattern, inclination angle and size of the contact patch. In certain cases the cone effect can pretty much neutralize the remaining tilt moment.

I hope this helps.

I got a question about 80/80-14, 80/90-14 tires then.. Most 18x3 wheels that can use these hard "motocross, schooter"  tires. Like before mentioned K66.

Use them and ride them, don't have problems. Also on 40mm rims. Maybe because they are higher profile, there's something?

Metzeler Sportec Street 70/90 = ~50mm.

80/80 = ~60mm

80/90 = ~65mm

Height from where tire/rim meets.

[digithom]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

 

The Chao Yang H-5102 is the only factory installed EUC tire that I consider being a (nearly) 100% street tire. The behavior is predictable, and at some point it was even the stock tire for the 10XL. It’s the one that @ShanesPlanet refers to as the “Nike tire”. If you want a street tire, that one is surely the safest bet.

 But please, PLEASE buy yourself three plastic tire replacement tools before you do another tire swap! I find plastic tire spoons with a metal core to be simply great, and sufficient for 14” (rim) MC tires. Also use an ample amount of lubrication to save yourself a bucketful of blood, sweat and tears. Dish soap does just fine, an actual tire lube even better. You don’t want to destroy your rim for saving literally just a few bucks.

You can sleep sweet dreams, I did it very carefully, using grease and working very carefully, the rim is shining like new without any scratch.
I've also used talc inside between tire and tube, in order to let the tube to slide and to accomodate in the best position.
I don't know if and when I'll change again the tire, but I'll follow your suggestion about the tools you said, because it was a big pain to put this hard tubeless tire in this bicycle rim.
Searching on internet I can't find any plastic iron core tool, but this seems to be a nice kit, the provide iron tools and a plastic guard to be positioned where the tool is placed.

 

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005001633149832.html

 

Quote

Then for the hot topic of forces included when riding on an angled road. While I’m very interested in understanding the physics behind stuff, riding an EUC has such a combination of forces that I can’t even pretend that I’d understand them all. I do have a good bit of experience though.

 

I try to explain what happens when you ride on an inclined road ...
Just immagine you're running over a small stone that is not centered on the wheel, like this picture (the small stone is the red circle)

it is like if the stone is pushing up in the contact point and the wheel will tilt searching a second contact point (the road) to lay in a plane surface.

When you're riding an inclined road it is like if you have constantly a stone, out of the center, on one side of the wheel and it will try to fall searching a second contact point to get stability.
The wider is the tire, the harder is the tread the powerful is the tilt force.

Quote

I asked a local Z10 rider to ride straight through a spot that had a pretty steep angle to the left. I suspected what would happen, but I wasn’t able to guesstimate the severity. The rider managed to ride straight, but only by opening his legs a lot in order to let the wheel tilt. And the wheel tilted to the left, in the direction of the downhill.

Z10 has a very wide tire and an hard tread so it is the worst of the worst, almost all owners of Z10 tells their stories about this alien way to ride this euc.
When I tried the first time my euc and it behaved in this way, suddenly I remembered all posts I've read in past about Z10 and his strange and hard way to ride.
Thanks for reporting this test, I would have payed to make a test like this, I would have bet for this result.

I have to say that I'm not a so expert rider, I ride eucs only since 4 months and I have to take in account that I have to increase my experience more than fix this problem.
I rised again the pressure to 1.6bar after 200km of testing and I'm now able to manage the euc that 2 weeks ago I declared unusable.
I'm not even sure anymore that it still tries to tilt  obviously it does, but I learnt to react or maybe prevent this and it is like if is now normal.

[Funky]

24 minutes ago, digithom said:

You can sleep sweet dreams, I did it very carefully, using grease and working very carefully, the rim is shining like new without any scratch.
I've also used talc inside between tire and tube, in order to let the tube to slide and to accomodate in the best position.
I don't know if and when I'll change again the tire, but I'll follow your suggestion about the tools you said, because it was a big pain to put this hard tubeless tire in this bicycle rim.
Searching on internet I can't find any plastic iron core tool, but this seems to be a nice kit, the provide iron tools and a plastic guard to be positioned where the tool is placed.

 

https://it.aliexpress.com/item/1005001633149832.html

 

 

I try to explain what happens when you ride on an inclined road ...
Just immagine you're running over a small stone that is not centered on the wheel, like this picture (the small stone is the red circle)

it is like if the stone is pushing up in the contact point and the wheel will tilt searching a second contact point (the road) to lay in a plane surface.

When you're riding an inclined road it is like if you have constantly a stone, out of the center, on one side of the wheel and it will try to fall searching a second contact point to get stability.
The wider is the tire, the harder is the tread the powerful is the tilt force.

Z10 has a very wide tire and an hard tread so it is the worst of the worst, almost all owners of Z10 tells their stories about this alien way to ride this euc.
When I tried the first time my euc and it behaved in this way, suddenly I remembered all posts I've read in past about Z10 and his strange and hard way to ride.
Thanks for reporting this test, I would have payed to make a test like this, I would have bet for this result.

I have to say that I'm not a so expert rider, I ride eucs only since 4 months and I have to take in account that I have to increase my experience more than fix this problem.
I rised again the pressure to 1.6bar after 200km of testing and I'm now able to manage the euc that 2 weeks ago I declared unusable.
I'm not even sure anymore that it still tries to tilt  obviously it does, but I learnt to react or maybe prevent this and it is like if is now normal.

Dam, i had stone like that at my FIRST ride on my new 18xl!! Whole euc went side ways! I did this pose>>>

But at one side. Some people like the Z10 and that riding style doh..

The stone was about 2 eggs size. Did not notice it till it was 2 late. xD Did not fall doh.. That amazed me.

(Was riding on gravel road.. Gotta test new wheel.. Go figure..). Shit my pants almost.

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by Funky

[Eucner]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Then for the hot topic of forces included when riding on an angled road. While I’m very interested in understanding the physics behind stuff, riding an EUC has such a combination of forces that I can’t even pretend that I’d understand them all. I do have a good bit of experience though.

I asked a local Z10 rider to ride straight through a spot that had a pretty steep angle to the left. I suspected what would happen, but I wasn’t able to guesstimate the severity. The rider managed to ride straight, but only by opening his legs a lot in order to let the wheel tilt. And the wheel tilted to the left, in the direction of the downhill.

 So, what does this mean? Well, dunno, really. @Eucner’s physics are sound, but it does seem that the combination of this and other forces is strong enough to overcome the camber effect alone.

It sounds like the wheel was tilted to the normal axle of the ground and the system's center of gravity was kept in vertical line with contact point. This would nullify tilt moment and cone effect. The wheel would go nicely straight, but it could look funny and get difficult in steep angles. This could be the best tactics with Z10. It's tire is very wide and has big crown radius. If the wheels was kept straight, it would have created bigger tilting moment than the cone effect and gone downhill.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Eucner
typo

[Eucner]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

I got a question about 80/80-14, 80/90-14 tires then.. Most 18x3 wheels that can use these hard "motocross, schooter"  tires. Like before mentioned K66.

Use them and ride them, don't have problems. Also on 40mm rims. Maybe because they are higher profile, there's something?

Metzeler Sportec Street 70/90 = ~50mm.

80/80 = ~60mm

80/90 = ~65mm

Height from where tire/rim meets.

Low tire profile will make crown radius and tilt moment bigger. Narrow rim will make tire profile higher. The combination of these would make tire behave more like a standard round profile tire. Did this answer to your question?

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, digithom said:

I can't find any plastic iron core tool

Try Google for “tire lever steel core”. Though, I’m sure any of these modern designs would do just fine despite not mentioning a metal core. Just remember to utilize the center groove of the rim properly for the bead opposite to where you’re twisting the stiff motorcycle tire:

https://www.amazon.de/Crank-Brothers-Speedier-Lever-Levers/dp/B008UY1MXW/ref=mp_s_a_1_17?crid=220OEVWU0ZH6&keywords=reifenheber+fahrrad&pscroll=1&qid=1643251697&sprefix=tire+lever+bicycle%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-17&wIndexMainSlot=34

https://www.amazon.de/Gorilla-Force-Ultra-Strong-Bicycle/dp/B07FDS3VCW/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?crid=1Y9GTGWUJ0WWS&keywords=reifenlöffel+fahrrad&qid=1643251046&sprefix=tire+spoon+bicycle%2Caps%2C154&sr=8-7#

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/aw/d/B08TMHCMM4/ref=sspa_mw_detail_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9waG9uZV9kZXRhaWwp13NParams

 

3 hours ago, digithom said:

I try to explain what happens when you ride on an inclined road

Yes, I believe the behavior you describe is the main factor here. It always seems to be a bit of a gamble though that which of the factors is the most prominent at any given situation.

3 hours ago, digithom said:

 

 

Btw, I really like these “hand made” EUC images of yours! Well done. Just that the tire tread is the wrong way around! 

 

3 hours ago, digithom said:

Thanks for reporting this test, I would have payed to make a test like this

Why, thank you! I do take PayPal. 

 

3 hours ago, digithom said:

I rised again the pressure to 1.6bar

One thing I forgot to mention about the alarming pressures you tried for a while: While bent rims are the most common issue with low pressures, at 1.2 bars and below there’s a real risk of ripping out the valve section of the tube. A pressure that low no longer holds the tire in place like it should, so both the tire and the tube may rotate a bit as you accelerate and brake. The valve is the only thing keeping the tire from rotating, and it’s very much not up for the job.

 

3 hours ago, digithom said:

I'm now able to manage the euc that 2 weeks ago I declared unusable. I'm not even sure anymore that it still tries to tilt  obviously it does, but I learnt to react or maybe prevent this and it is like if is now normal.

Only 4 months of riding under your belt is not at all much. Any change in the wheel’s behavior will take you back, since you have so far mostly learned to ride only the behavior of your wheel, not universal EUC riding characteristics (if they even exist). If you’d try a wheel with a different tire size, that would also take you back a notch or a few. It’s funny to see a 14” rider try an 18x3” EUC for the first time: No matter how much they have ridden their 14”, they simply can’t make the darned thing turn!

 Besides that, the tire behavior definitely does change during the first few hundred km. A tire that isn’t designed for the rim width probably does this even more.

[Funky]

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Btw, I really like these “hand made” EUC images of yours! Well done. Just that the tire tread is the wrong way around! 

 

Only 4 months of riding under your belt is not at all much. Any change in the wheel’s behavior will take you back, since you have so far mostly learned to ride only the behavior of your wheel, not universal EUC riding characteristics (if they even exist). If you’d try a wheel with a different tire size, that would also take you back a notch or a few. It’s funny to see a 14” rider try an 18x3” EUC for the first time: No matter how much they have ridden their 14”, they simply can’t make the darned thing turn!

 Besides that, the tire behavior definitely does change during the first few hundred km. A tire that isn’t designed for the rim width probably does this even more.

Have you tried looking at the image from back side? Euc is riding away from you. So it's right way. 

 

Going from 16" to 18"  isn't that big of difference i guess, versus going from 14" to 18".

Well i got under month of riding (have charged wheel 3 times..) So i can't really talk here. xD Bought it right before winter..

From what you're telling, i may have not gotten used to 1488 tire yet.. Meaning i could perhaps not see difference from 1488 to K66 tire. xD

Edited January 27, 2022 by Funky

[digithom]

10 hours ago, Funky said:

Dam, i had stone like that at my FIRST ride on my new 18xl!! Whole euc went side ways! I did this pose>>>

But at one side. Some people like the Z10 and that riding style doh..

The stone was about 2 eggs size. Did not notice it till it was 2 late. xD Did not fall doh.. That amazed me.

(Was riding on gravel road.. Gotta test new wheel.. Go figure..). Shit my pants almost.

 

 nice to imagine this scene

before this experience, I was not able to imagine how just a tire can change everything, you have a new euc

did you had the opportunity to test a little bit ?
what abut first impressions ?

[Funky]

1 minute ago, digithom said:

 nice to imagine this scene

before this experience, I was not able to imagine how just a tire can change everything, you have a new euc

did you had the opportunity to test a little bit ?
what abut first impressions ?

Not yet sadly. Snow melted little bit.. But over night everything froze. More or less it's ice everywhere now.

Don't see good test on ice. xD

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Have you tried looking at the image from back side? Euc is riding away from you. So it's right way.

Oh, so it doesn’t have a mud guard at all? That’s disappointing… 

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Going from 16" to 18"  isn't that big of difference i guess, versus going from 14" to 18".

The width plays a huge role as well, and it does affect the measurable diameter as well. For example: From 16x3 to 18x2.5 is only a small difference. From 16x2.125 to 18x3 is a huge difference.

1 hour ago, Funky said:

From what you're telling, i may have not gotten used to 1488 tire yet.. Meaning i could perhaps not see difference from 1488 to K66 tire. xD

Oh, I’m sure you’ll feel the difference, but in the grand scheme of things, your ability to ride will probably not be affected very much. You’ll probably be able to catch up the step back in learning in maybe just ten km, or a few. Besides, the K66 handling is much more natural on an EUC than with any purely street oriented MC tire.

[digithom]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Oh, so it doesn’t have a mud guard at all? That’s disappointing… 

to be honest I picked this picture from the web and then I painted over it what I need, we should search the owner and explain him how an euc wheel should be made 

 

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Oh, I’m sure you’ll feel the difference, but in the grand scheme of things, your ability to ride will probably not be affected very much. You’ll probably be able to catch up the step back in learning in maybe just ten km, or a few. Besides, the K66 handling is much more natural on an EUC than with any purely street oriented MC tire.

Why K66 should be more natural ?
It weights more than Metzeller (about 2.1kg VS 1.8kg), it is wider, it is harder ... every number is against a better natural ride ...

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

One thing I forgot to mention about the alarming pressures you tried for a while: While bent rims are the most common issue with low pressures, at 1.2 bars and below there’s a real risk of ripping out the valve section of the tube. A pressure that low no longer holds the tire in place like it should, so both the tire and the tube may rotate a bit as you accelerate and brake. The valve is the only thing keeping the tire from rotating, and it’s very much not up for the job.

I got you, even if I don't think that motor torque is enough to let the tire slip over the rim, it is better to stay on the safe side.
I have anyway to find a compromise, I was riding at 1.6 bar the stock tire and it was comfortable, but Metzeller at the same pressure is like wood, it tends to bounce on obstacles instead to absorbe hits, my 65kg weight is obviously not on my side  

[Funky]

24 minutes ago, digithom said:

I got you, even if I don't think that motor torque is enough to let the tire slip over the rim, it is better to stay on the safe side.
I have anyway to find a compromise, I was riding at 1.6 bar the stock tire and it was comfortable, but Metzeller at the same pressure is like wood, it tends to bounce on obstacles instead to absorbe hits, my 65kg weight is obviously not on my side  

I started at 3 bars on stock tire.. 2.5-2.8 was my setting at the end. (Wheel didn't wobble at speed anymore..) At 3 bars it started to wobble at 25-30kmh speed.

I'm literally 2x your weight. xD -3kg.

Weight alone will be big difference for some tires.(How they feel etc..) I like riding harder tire = better. Less likelihood of damaging rim. If tire lets my put 3.1 bars, i start at 3.1 xD

~2.7 was my "comfy" air pressure. Sure i would love going lower, for more comfort, but i wont risk damaging the rim. I will chose learning to control the wobbles better.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Funky

[digithom]

1 minute ago, Funky said:

Less likelihood of damaging rim. If tire lets my put 3.1 bars, i start at 3.1 xD

 

You will get this very easily, to the air pressure the tread hardness is added and the rim is very protected even lowering the pressure.
Even at 1.3bar, with the Metzeller is still harder to hit the rim than stock a 1.6bar.
Look again at my video bouncing on the wheel, it was made at only 1.1bar, at 1.6bar it is like stone 

I think you'll enjoy your k66.

 

[Funky]

1 minute ago, digithom said:

 

You will get this very easily, to the air pressure the tread hardness is added and the rim is very protected even lowering the pressure.
Even at 1.3bar, with the Metzeller is still harder to hit the rim than stock a 1.6bar.
Look again at my video bouncing on the wheel, it was made at only 1.1bar, at 1.6bar it is like stone 

I think you'll enjoy your k66.

 

I had the same bouncing (at mirror) at ~3bars. xD (Again weight difference..) Maybe K66 is softer rubber? Also height difference 10mm more movement at sidewalls.

Ps. it's starting to melt outside again.. If it won't be raining tomorrow, i will go for small ride around city 1-5km to test K66 little bit. Even everything is wet..

Yeah, i don't see myself changing back to original tire.. Even if need to relearn.

[Funky]

I think K66 80/80-14 would fit regular 18xl who don't have Hextech pedals. Diameter was 1 cm bigger than original tire 47cm vs 48cm.

White inner shell can be sanded little bit, if need be under mud guard, same in front. (The white little triangles..)

Width wise still needs to be cut.. After cut it was same width as original. +2-4mm

You had C-1488 tire before right?

[mrelwood]

 

1 hour ago, digithom said:

Why K66 should be more natural ?
It weights more than Metzeller (about 2.1kg VS 1.8kg), it is wider, it is harder ... every number is against a better natural ride ...

Not so sure about the hardness, but other numbers may well be. But since we’re not riding on numbers (or I don’t know how to read them well enough), I based my comment on the dozens of K66 user experiences that closely resemble my own, against yours and a few others’ who have had questionable results on MC street tires.

Actually, I’m not sure if I’ve read even a single negative comment about the ride behavior on the K66… 

1 hour ago, digithom said:

I got you, even if I don't think that motor torque is enough to let the tire slip over the rim, it is better to stay on the safe side.

The incidents when that has happened are indeed only a few known ones, but they still exist. 0.95 bars is well under any reasonable lower limit. I can understand if you need to go down to 1.4 bars as a light person, but anything under that seems like compensating for a separate issue that would probably be best fixed elsewhere.

I weigh 103kg, so I keep my lower limit at 1.7 bars. 1.8 feels sensible on snow and ice.

 

1 hour ago, Funky said:

I started at 3 bars on stock tire..

One thing to note is that the tire size is a huge factor in the suitable pressure range. For example, my go-to pressures for stock tires have been approximately:

16x2.125: 3.2 bars

16x2.5: 2.8 (or was it 3.0?) bars

18x2.5: 2.5 bars

18x3: 2.3 bars

(18x3, MC tire: 2.0 bars)

 

1 hour ago, Funky said:

I will chose learning to control the wobbles better.

Smart choice! 

Edited January 27, 2022 by mrelwood

[Funky]

34 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

MC street tires.

Actually, I’m not sure if I’ve read even a single negative comment about the ride behavior on the K66… 

18x2.5: 2.5 bars

What do "MC" stand for anyways lol?

Yeah, that's why i also went with K66. Even if i ride 90% pavement/asphalt. I was looking at Michelin city pro 70/90-14, But as i found out 70/90 height is around ~50mm, less than original ~54mm, it did not seem like upgrade over "stock" tire. 

Same bar/weight ration that i used on stock (18x2.5 at ~2.7 bars) xD 

Will start at 2.5 for K66 then, will see where i settle at the end.

@digithom If you still hate the tire in future, try K66?  It was super easy to cut btw.. I'm 95% sure it would fit regular 18xl height wise. 54mm vs 58mm It's ~4mm bigger.

Close to wheel well,(height wise) but would fit.. (Then again the danger of rock getting stuck......)

Edited January 27, 2022 by Funky

[digithom]

 

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Actually, I’m not sure if I’ve read even a single negative comment about the ride behavior on the K66… 

It is very dangerous to try to get other people comments ...
I've never seen someone mounting such type of tyre on a "small" euc, I bet that 99% of K66 users are replacing a 3" tire, so they've already made this experience before, they already know how to handle a "non EUC" tire, and I can also bet on another statistic, most of them are expert users, with skill on offroad riding and no flat road conditions.

Just looking at me, there is more result on my learning than on tire setting, just today I ran at 1.8bar without no one of the first day dificultes, it is incredible what practice can do.
So if you would asked me my opinion two weeks ago, I would suggested to keep stock tire.
Ask the same question today, and I answer it is a good tire, with a good potential.
Maybe, after two months and 2000km, I'll swear that this tire should be adopted as stock instead of that cheap bicycle tire.
 

Inside an opinion there is not only the product, but the personal experience of the person that is telling his story.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by digithom

[Funky]

9 minutes ago, digithom said:

 

It is very dangerous to try to get other people comments ...
I've never seen someone mounting such type of tyre on a "small" euc, I bet that 99% of K66 users are replacing a 3" tire, so they've already made this experience before, they already know how to handle a "non EUC" tire, and I can also bet on another statistic, most of them are expert users, with skill on offroad riding and no flat road conditions.

Just looking at me, there is more result on my learning than on tire setting, just today I ran at 1.8bar without no one of the first day dificultes, it is incredible what practice can do.
So if you would asked me my opinion two weeks ago, I would suggested to keep stock tire.
Ask the same question today, and I answer it is a good tire, with a good potential.
Maybe, after two months and 2000km, I'll swear that this tire should be adopted as stock instead of that cheap bicycle tire.
 

Inside an opinion there is not only the product, but the personal experience of the person that is telling his story.

 

Most 18x3" tires that come stock on "bigger euc" are same 1488, 5102  just bigger. Rim being the same.

True most people go 80/90-14 as it's closet thing to 3" tire. 80/80 is closer to 2.5" (I wish 18xl could use true 3" tire)

18xl isn't "small euc" in any way.  

It's the same when you first tried euc (I bet you thought: How the hell you ride this thing) xD

You can adept to anything over time.

[digithom]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

 

It's the same when you first tried euc (I bet you thought: How the hell you ride this thing) xD

 

This is what I say, they already did this with the stock tire, and now they only need a very small learning.

[digithom]

I'm not planning to revert to stock tire or to change again the tire of my ks18, but if for any reason I'll have to dismount again the wheel, I'll also try to definitely transform it in to a real tubeless euc.

I've just bought this for a buck of euros

 

The rim is made by one piece and there is no problem to contain compressed air without a tube, the only missing part is this valve.
It is a sin to don't have had this idea before.

[Funky]

1 minute ago, digithom said:

I'm not planning to revert to stock tire or to change again the tire of my ks18, but if for any reason I'll have to dismount again the wheel, I'll also try to definitely transform it in to a real tubeless euc.

I've just bought this for a buck of euros

 

The rim is made by one piece and there is no problem to contain compressed air without a tube, the only missing part is this valve.
It is a sin to don't have had this idea before.

Well euc rim don't have that bead that tubeless tires needs.. So it will be extremely hard to get tire not lose air. (It's possible, i bet.. But not worth in my mind)

Also will there really be big difference tube or no tube?

Ps. i had bars and psi mixed.. I rode stock 18x2.5 tire at ~2bars or 30psi.

K66 seems way to hard at that pressure, i will start at same. (But most likely go under 2bars or 30psi)