Popular Post HEC Posted March 1, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 1, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Wraith Rider said: I have a feeling they might redesign the bolt hole situation in the next batches. Larger, evenly spaced out and possibly 5 instead of 4?! Might as well over engineer it and make it bullet proof. I disagree. V13 is already "over engineered" with 50+% safety margin in basically all aspects. I see no point in increasing size or amount of bolts or changing their location (as long as the used bolts are up to design specs indeed, both in grade and taper angle). Those 8 bolts can cary significantly larger loads than ever expected when properly mounted. Plus any change in size, count or position of bolts would require (IMO unnecessary) redesign of the slide rails and possibly surrounding frame too. Not worth it for a sake of "bullet proofing". There is really no need to reinvent the wheel here (pun fully intended) 🚳 Edited March 1, 2023 by HEC 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyss Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 13 hours ago, HEC said: saw that before, he just briefly mentioned that he used another non-stock charger, without specifying brand. Sorry wrong video. https://youtu.be/QWBYVauvFMM He talks about it 25:32ish and the v13 didn't like it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 4 hours ago, Eyss said: Sorry wrong video. https://youtu.be/QWBYVauvFMM He talks about it 25:32ish and the v13 didn't like it Right, thanks. He just says it "it didn't like it when almost fully charged and keep turning off", implying it's charing but turning off "prematurely". The S22 charger is actually known for being a bit under voltaged by default, he also mentioned that and that he increased the voltage in it to be able to charge his S22 to 126V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post soulson Posted March 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2023 eWheels received the replacement axle screws from inmotion yesterday, and they're working through the backlog of installs 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 3 hours ago, soulson said: eWheels received the replacement axle screws from inmotion yesterday, and they're working through the backlog of installs Any images of those for a reference? I've requested mine from seller yesterday but they don't have them yet, so even longer wait for me ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forwardnbak Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 we are still waiting for ours to land 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, HEC said: Any images of those for a reference? I've requested mine from seller yesterday but they don't have them yet, so even longer wait for me ... I should have mine tomorrow and i can take a picture, they will be just like the spec sheet i have been using. Inmotion refered me to that sheet when i inquired about the 75 degree originals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lesleigh Gonzales Posted March 2, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) On 2/21/2023 at 12:22 AM, HEC said: One more still unclear point (with all the originally incorrect information circulated) is the actual recommend torque. Have you ben provided the correct value? And just to make it more "complicated", recommend or max torque values for the bolts itself are not necessarily the ones required for actual assembly (as already discussed earlier in this thread). Here is a better picture of the hardware INMOTION sent to us. You can also see the rating in the head (which is comforting) In addition here is the recommended torque spec. Hope this helps. We will soon release a video showing the process! Edited March 2, 2023 by Lesleigh Gonzales grammar 1 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forwardnbak Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lesleigh Gonzales said: Here is a better picture of the hardware INMOTION sent to us. In addition here is the recommended spec. Hope this helps. We will soon release a video showing the process. Screwing - i guess size does matter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulson Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Hardness too, apparently 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 33 minutes ago, Lesleigh Gonzales said: Here is a better picture of the hardware INMOTION sent to us. In addition here is the recommended spec. Hope this helps. We will soon release a video showing the process. Thanks for that. Head seems to be same "reinforced" type rather than "plain" flat top. Also they're a bit shorter but still within the specs. Have you compared the taper angles? You can hold them against each other in parallel facing oposite direction (like in below post), so the tapered cones leans against each other to see if the bolts will be in slight angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 45 minutes ago, Lesleigh Gonzales said: Also, the torque is stated here as "17N" (which most likely means 17 N.m), though below Inmotion statement says 18 N.m ... Not a big difference really but (as discussed here previously) either way the value seems to be a bit high considering the aluminium slide rails in between. I personally would prefer 12 to 14 N.m max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesleigh Gonzales Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, HEC said: Thanks for that. Head seems to be same "reinforced" type rather than "plain" flat top. Also they're a bit shorter but still within the specs. Have you compared the taper angles? You can hold them against each other in parallel facing oposite direction (like in below post), so the tapered cones leans against each other to see if the bolts will be in slight angle. Correct, these are grade 12.9. As far as the change in dimension according to pictures we received from INMOTION, there is difference of 0.0631 degrees from original to current version. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Lesleigh Gonzales said: Correct, these are grade 12.9. As far as the change in dimension according to pictures we received from INMOTION, there is difference of 0.0631 degrees from original to current version. No, I'm not talking about the steel grade (original ones supposed to be 12.9 too), I'm specifically talking about the head shape, which have an "oblique" rather than flat top, making it thus structurally stronger. In regads of the taper angle I'm becoming more and more confused. If the new ones are only 0.06-ish degrees off, they are unlikely to be 90° taper (as listed in provided specs), but closer to 75° ... sigh. I know I've asked this before, but if you happen to have calipers, measuring the two diameters and "height" of the head would allow us to calculate the taper angle: Edited March 2, 2023 by HEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesleigh Gonzales Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, HEC said: Also, the torque is stated here as "17N" (which most likely means 17 N.m), though below Inmotion statement says 18 N.m ... Not a big difference really but (as discussed here previously) either way the value seems to be a bit high considering the aluminium slide rails in between. I personally would prefer 12 to 14 N.m max. 17 N.m - 30 N.m (12 - 22 ft pounds) is the spec range so anywhere in there is usually acceptable. We would not recommend going lower than 17 even with threadlocker. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Lesleigh Gonzales said: 17 N.m - 30 N.m (12 - 22 ft pounds) is the spec range so anywhere in there is usually acceptable. We would not recommend going lower than 17 even with threadlocker. Those values are for the bolts themselves based on their grade. However the actual torque upon assembly must be adjusted not only to rating / grade of the bolts but also the material into which the bolts are mounted into as well as any materials in between (panels, washers etc.) and indeed intended purpose of the fastener joint. Thus I feel that 17+ N.m is too much for the aluminium slider rails in between. Edited March 2, 2023 by HEC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesleigh Gonzales Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, HEC said: No, I'm not talking about the steel grade (original ones supposed to be 12.9 too), I'm specifically talking about the head shape, which have an "oblique" rather than flat top, making it thus structurally stronger. In regads if the taper angle I'm becoming mire and more confused. If the new ones are only 0.06-ish degrees off, they are unlikely to be 90° taper (as listed in provided specs), but closer to 75° ... sigh. I know I've asked this before, but if you happen to have calipers, measuring the two diameters and "height" of the head would allow us to calculate the taper angle: With calipers its not going to be accurate. The taper calculator we used is way off, but they are most certainly 90 degrees. Not sure where to go further from here. Just trying to help provide clarification to the community based on what INMOTION has told/ showed us directly. Edited March 2, 2023 by Lesleigh Gonzales correction 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 24 minutes ago, Lesleigh Gonzales said: With calipers its not going to be accurate. The taper calculator we used is way off, but they are most certainly 90 degrees. Not sure where to go further from here. Just trying to help provide clarification to the community based on what INMOTION has told/ showed us directly. Thank you. Based on those measurements it is most likely 90°. What baffles me though is the discrepancy between original bolts and "flat top" 90° taper ones originally provided by eWheels as replacement, as per above mentioned @conecones's post ... The point of the exercise is to establish the actual difference between original and replacement bolts, to see how much of risk it would be to not replace bolts right away (now I'm talking purely about the dimensions, specifically taper angle, leaving aside possible lower "quality" / grades of some original bolts) and leave it until tire / inner tube swap or next "maintenance" window. Your input and help is much appreciated! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesleigh Gonzales Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 1 hour ago, HEC said: Thank you. Based on those measurements it is most likely 90°. What baffles me though is the discrepancy between original bolts and "flat top" 90° taper ones originally provided by eWheels as replacement, as per above mentioned @conecones's post ... The point of the exercise is to establish the actual difference between original and replacement bolts, to see how much of risk it would be to not replace bolts right away (now I'm talking purely about the dimensions, specifically taper angle, leaving aside possible lower "quality" / grades of some original bolts) and leave it until tire / inner tube swap or next "maintenance" window. Your input and help is much appreciated! Of course! While we as a dealer have to err on the side of safety so we advise everyone to take measures to reduce risk. While INMOTION has stated it doesn't affect every wheel the risk appears to be increased when not torqued correctly after reassembly. Glad some of the info helps. Ride safe! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 4 hours ago, Lesleigh Gonzales said: Here is a better picture of the hardware INMOTION sent to us. Thanks @Lesleigh Gonzales for the pictures. Looking at them and barring a Rockwell hardness test, i think i would prefer the originals. The thread looks longer and starts later on the bolt from the head. IMO the perpetrators used an electric impact to remove and reinstall these bolts, thus breaking a few off. Even at 10.9 grade these four bolts would rip a chunk out of the aluminum rails before breaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 10 minutes ago, Lesleigh Gonzales said: Of course! While we as a dealer have to err on the side of safety so we advise everyone to take measures to reduce risk. While INMOTION has stated it doesn't affect every wheel the risk appears to be increased when not torqued correctly after reassembly. Absolutely, as you can't predict how the wheel will be ridden and under which conditions. I'm in no way "extreme" rider and I don't ride off road or even jump curbs, so the strain on the bolts should be minimal. So I'm deciding between removing and then re-tightening bunch of bolts on completely new wheel so I can replace / re-torque 8 potentially "weak" ones, or leaving all as is and observe how it will do. One side question, would you happen to know if you can remove front light assembly from the frame (losing the front 6 bolts) without stripping the whole wheel to frame (i.e. removing top panel and battery packs)? I look forward to your video for replacing the bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, HEC said: Absolutely, as you can't predict how the wheel will be ridden and under which conditions. I'm in no way "extreme" rider and I don't ride off road or even jump curbs, so the strain on the bolts should be minimal. So I'm deciding between removing and then re-tightening bunch of bolts on completely new wheel so I can replace / re-torque 8 potentially "weak" ones, or leaving all as is and observe how it will do. One side question, would you happen to know if you can remove front light assembly from the frame (losing the front 6 bolts) without stripping the whole wheel to frame (i.e. removing top panel and battery packs)? I look forward to your video for replacing the bolts. yes, the front frame and the six bolts take the front light assy. out with the fans. One plug on the top. replacing the bolts will be super easy, you can pull the rear handle , then the top cover and its 6 screws and the 4 shock holds. Then the motor wires off the controller and the whole unit slides off the 2 sliders. With practice i bet you could do it in 2 minutes or so. Remember this video. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said: Thanks @Lesleigh Gonzales for the pictures. Looking at them and barring a Rockwell hardness test, i think i would prefer the originals. The thread looks longer and starts later on the bolt from the head. IMO the perpetrators used an electric impact to remove and reinstall these bolts, thus breaking a few off. Even at 10.9 grade these four bolts would rip a chunk out of the aluminum rails before breaking. As per the Inmotion statement below (paragraph 4.), the bolts are intentionally shorter (and I personally don't see that as an issue as there is plenty of bolt's thread in the motor even with shorter bolts. On other hand, the un-threaded part of the bolt really seems shorter, which seems to contradict the Inmotion's statement that it should be 3 mm from the head. From the images provided by @Lesleigh Gonzales it seems to be barely 1 mm on new bolts and about 2 mm on old ones. So, yeah, go figure ... Either way, the un-threaded section of the bolt should be a tad bit shorter than thickness of the aluminium slide rail (from the bottom to the lower edge of tapered hole), to both increase the strength in that area as well as to prevent the bolt from being screwed in too far thus deforming the rail itself. Edited March 3, 2023 by HEC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said: yes, the front frame and the six bolts take the front light assy. out with the fans. Yeah, I thought that's the case, I just didn't want to start removing bolts in case more disassembly is required. I will swap the front light noisy fans for Noctua ones, after I perform some temperature tests with original ones. Then I will also weather proof the tail light board. Peeking in through back gap above inner fender it seems that mine have no isolation applied to the top small board of the large white plug (unlike for example the one in ECO Drift teardown). Unfortunately it seems that water protection is inconsistent across boards and different individual wheels, so checking those most critical ones (i.e. front and tail light boards plus top power switch one) is highly recommended. Now, is it better to use a "generic" hotglue gun sticks (white or clear), or use the "dedicated" dielectric glue "paste" instead? Edited March 3, 2023 by HEC 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, HEC said: Now, is it better to use a "generic" hotglue gun sticks (white or clear), or use the "dedicated" dielectric glue "paste" instead? The areas where you can use hot glue to create a permanent barrier is preferred. The dielectric grease is used in areas that may need to be removed later like inside plugs etc. It's not as effective as a encasement with a hot glue but is water resistant inside pinned plugs for a period of time so the pins don't get corroded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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