Started on a V8F... What's Next?

[MacGyverCanada]

I caught the EUC bug, and it seems that I'm gravitating toward Chooch-style riding.  It's really filling the void for downhill mountain biking from my days living out West.  I threw a dirt tire on my V8F and that has been game-changing but I know that I'm going to eventually destroy this wheel if I keep it up; I'm impacting the rim too often and running the battery down way too low.  4 months into EUC ownership and I'm already shopping around for a new wheel... as is tradition.  So here's my shopping list:

• Bomb-proof design that can take a beating
• 3" knobby tire without suspension
• Effective trail range +/- 100km (65 miles)
• Torque is more important than top speed
• I don't care much about lights, speakers, screens, etc.

So given all that, I'm gravitating toward the Kingsong 16x.  Just wanted to check in to ask the community A) are there any other wheels that should be on my radar in the ballpark of the 16x price point, and B) should I hold off and wait until the production Inmotion V12 comes to market to see how it compares?  Thanks,

EDIT: Should have mentioned that I'm 185 lbs / 84 kg

Edited May 24, 2021 by macgyvercanada

[oaschi]

I don't even have a wheel yet so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I'm buying the Nikola 100v 2700wh. I think it ticks all your boxes

[MacGyverCanada]

 

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I don't even have a wheel yet so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I'm buying the Nikola 100v 2700wh.

I looked that one up on the store where I ordered my V8F.  One review posted for the Nikola starts with:

 

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First this is not your entry level wheel and you don't want this to be your first wheel for safety reasons due to not having enough riding experiences.

... and a bit later...
 

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Because this is 100V, it drains the battery power at much higher rate, so you would get much less distance than the 84V version, so this is a trade off.

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by macgyvercanada

[conecones]

If buying new from local retailer (I assume smartwheel) then KS16X is a better deal, and more suitable for off-road than Nikola. The 16x has higher pedals, is lighter and has very good low end torque. If you can hold out for the V12 though (probably another 2-3months) it would be a much better choice especially at local pricing.

Nikola is only worth it (value wise) if you are willing to take the risk of buying from AliExpress or you want the range from 2700wh battery. 

[.....]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

If buying new from local retailer (I assume smartwheel) then KS16X is a better deal, and more suitable for off-road than Nikola. The 16x has higher pedals, is lighter and has very good low end torque. If you can hold out for the V12 though (probably another 2-3months) it would be a much better choice especially at local pricing.

Nikola is only worth it (value wise) if you are willing to take the risk of buying from AliExpress or you want the range from 2700wh battery. 

Don't assume the v12 is great, until we have a chance to see. I don't know if it looks like a great design to be taking off-road impacts. Gotway is well... gotway. There's a lot to be said about having a slightly lighter wheel for off road. Less weight is also easier on a rim, assuming both are made of chinesium. I agree, atm, the 16x sounds like its close to meeting what he's looking for. Maybe in a season or two of beating one of those to death, there will be a TRUE off-road/trail wheel available. For now tho, its seems we are at the limits of battery tech, and each wheel is just another set of compromises. Its like the end result is always just #10, but now everyone is fighting on what to add up to get to...#10. I'm WAY past ready for a torque wheel of quality that isnt brick heavy. Unfortunately, I think light/torque/quality adds up to #11.

I've been burned by the 1st batch buyer blues myself. I tend to think its better to invest in what you KNOW has worked in the past, and let the people with $$ and wheels to burn, be the test goats. If a 'new' wheel IS a winner, itll more than likely be for sale next season too. Any way you choose, waiting until tomorrow, already cost you TODAY.

Edited May 26, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[oaschi]

7 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

I looked that one up on the store where I ordered my V8F.  One review posted for the Nikola starts with:

It still has more range than even the 16X because of the massive battery, the review is about the 1800wh version not the 2700wh one 

 

5 hours ago, conecones said:

Nikola is only worth it (value wise) if you are willing to take the risk of buying from AliExpress or you want the range from 2700wh battery. 

The Nikola 2700wh is now official, no need for AliExpress: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/23223-alien-ridesbegode-collab-nikola-ar-2700wh/

[mrelwood]

On 5/24/2021 at 5:26 PM, macgyvercanada said:

• Bomb-proof design that can take a beating

I don't think any EUC is quite up there yet. Sherman probably takes the lead though, and GW wheels with their easily shattering plastics are the bottom of the pack. Covering the wheel can help a lot though, and there are after market covers, soft and hard, available for many models.

On 5/24/2021 at 5:26 PM, macgyvercanada said:

• 3" knobby tire without suspension

Sherman is the only wheel that comes fitted with a knobby, so on any other wheel you'd be changing the tire from the get go.

On 5/24/2021 at 5:26 PM, macgyvercanada said:

• Effective trail range +/- 100km (65 miles)

This requirement clearly crosses off all sub 2000Wh wheels, 16X included. You'd be looking at only the Sherman, EXn, or the 2700Wh Nikola which I understand is getting harder to find these days.

On 5/24/2021 at 5:26 PM, macgyvercanada said:

• Torque is more important than top speed

When talking about torque, one always has to ask whether you mean the maximum available peak torque, or the effortlessness of acceleration? They are completely different measures, they come from completely separate features, and they often get mixed up.

 

8 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

I looked that one up on the store where I ordered my V8F.  One review posted for the Nikola starts with:

...

I wouldn't read into a few individual reviews that much. My guess is the reviewer doesn't consider Nikola as a starter wheel because the top speed tilt-back can be removed, so the rider can simply exceed the max speed and fall forward at max speed. But the tilt-back can be removed from all GW wheels and the Sherman alike.

And a 100V wheel only has a different effectiveness curve, so it uses the battery faster or slower depending on how and how fast you ride. Besides, no 84V wheel comes with a battery larger than 1600Wh, so if you really want 100km of range, you have no choice but to go 100V.

 

5 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

There's a lot to be said about having a slightly lighter wheel for off road.

Generally yes, but since the OP was talking about downhill, I don't think weight savings are as important as they would be for very technical slow speed trials obstacles.

[MacGyverCanada]

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Any way you choose, waiting until tomorrow, already cost you TODAY.

Preach.  

 

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Sherman is the only wheel that comes fitted with a knobby, so on any other wheel you'd be changing the tire from the get go.

I was banking on having to do my own tire swap.  Finding a proper tire shape/size seems unnecessarily complicated, as I found out when swapping the V8F tire.  

 

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When talking about torque, one always has to ask whether you mean the maximum available peak torque, or the effortlessness of acceleration? They are completely different measures, they come from completely separate features, and they often get mixed up.

Hmm hadn't thought of that.  I'd have to say that peak torque would be more important than acceleration for me.  Trails around here have lots of abrupt ups and downs and plenty of rocks to scurry over.  That also means that weight is going to be important... so I suppose I would prioritize the weight-to-torque ratio over max range.  

[mrelwood]

 

On 5/26/2021 at 1:44 PM, macgyvercanada said:

Finding a proper tire shape/size seems unnecessarily complicated, as I found out when swapping the V8F tire.  

The choices are indeed very limited for the V8 (I know of one single model), but most 18”x3” EUCs can use either 2.75-14 or 80/80-14 motorcycle tires as well. They are relatively common sizes for all kinds of tread patterns. 16”x3” on the other hand doesn’t seem to have anything else available than a 2.50-14 (= 60/100-14) knobby.

On 5/26/2021 at 1:44 PM, macgyvercanada said:

Hmm hadn't thought of that.  I'd have to say that peak torque would be more important than acceleration for me.

In that case I would steer you towards an 18”x3” EUC with a large enough battery. You should appreciate the raw power, tire options, and the ease of riding over obstacles.

While you might not be the battery for the range, you do need a large one just for the power. Meaning, the S18 and maybe even the V11 are out, and you should try to choose more parallel cell groups.

[MacGyverCanada]

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S18 and maybe even the V11 are out, and you should try to choose more parallel cell groups.

That's fine, I didn't really want to get into the complexity & component modding of suspension wheels anyway.  So what does the EUC community consider as good options for a torquey, nimble 18" wheel?  There's a guy local to me selling a KingSong 18XL for $1900 CAD.

Edited May 28, 2021 by macgyvercanada

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, macgyvercanada said:

So what does the EUC community consider as good options for a torquey, nimble 18" wheel?

Well, the 18XL isn’t the king of power, and the 2.5” wide tire does make it more road oriented. The knobby tires that fit 18”x3” EUCs do not fit, and again the availability of tires is limited. There are 2.5-14 minicross knobbies though, but they are all off-road and may be a bit taxing to ride on road. The 18XL is the king of 1600Wh range though, and should be compared to other wheels at 1850Wh or higher. It can also take beating like no Gotway can.

The Gotway MSP (HT) is definitely a powerhouse, and is one of the most used non-suspension off-roaders for a reason. They don’t make it anymore though, and the successor RS has bearing issues. But you might be able to find one second hand. You won’t get 100kms off range though, and letting it fall on rocks is almost a certain cell crack.

[MacGyverCanada]

All signs point to: wait and see what the V12 brings and then decide from there!