supercurio Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 22 minutes ago, That Guy said: Have you guys watched the latest Sherman-S "Stress Test" by eevee's? They managed to overheat the S22... Is it because of the rider's weight? https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxTo1k4PBt0mfSwaHSSMHX70PKyObzFat7 (Master was also heated up quite a lot.) Yeah the ZX motor in the bottleneck in terms of heat dissipation with the current model. The next S22 motor - from a new factory is meant to still have the same general characteristics in terms of torque/speed balance, but generate less heat: therefore have a better efficiency and power (lower losses) If the increase in power and efficiency will be anything noticeable is TBD, but the improvement in temperatures will certainly be appreciated! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted November 7, 2022 Share Posted November 7, 2022 26 minutes ago, That Guy said: Have you guys watched the latest Sherman-S "Stress Test" by eevee's? They managed to overheat the S22... Is it because of the rider's weight? https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxTo1k4PBt0mfSwaHSSMHX70PKyObzFat7 (Master was also heated up quite a lot.) Hard to tell why, but the motor does get hot (the controller not so), I've ridden mine up a long and very steep ski slope and ended up 1c below alarm (119c) but made it up, doing that test for me was enough to feel confident in the wheel however as I'm around 95kg rider and don't have a habit of riding up ski slopes all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Paul A said: How is it possible/acceptable that Gotway/Begode release the Master when the main component of linkage and shock is so low quality...It's like Charlie Brown forever trusting Lucy to hold the football. I still don't know why everyone does consider it low quality ! It might be a bit rattle-y when its not inflated but is rock solid when it is, and in my (admittedly rather short) experience of it so far it is 100% up to the job of suspensioning me around the countryside like I'm on a magic carpet ! I literally have ZERO complaints about the Master suspension. I don't want / need more travel, the rebound works, it is easy to pump up, it doesn't leak, it doesn't rust, and it doesn't fall to bits in general use - what else is there ?! Now, of course I am only 55 kilos, which might be why it's fine for me, but perhaps not for the 'bigger-boned' body types amongst us ? Edited November 8, 2022 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian-NZ Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 6 hours ago, Rawnei said: After disconnecting batteries all you have to do is loosen top two screws in suspension and you can slide motor out together with the controller attached no need to disconnect motor cable, super fast and efficient and no need to re-apply silicone on the motor cable cover, takes 5-10 minutes total. Just about to take my wheel apart to install the 3D printed version. Is there a video you could point to of how to do this Rawnei? I haven't found any that leave the controller attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, That Guy said: Is it because of the rider's weight? Ryan (GingerOnWheels) is a "properly fed 'murikin", not what I would call large, but easily 2x me. I think he's said he's 235 (that could be very high though)? Bradley mentioned that they've taken S22 up that hill in the past without problem. The hill burned an OG Sherman board so it's a pretty good hill. It's interesting it was motor overheat... ZX strikes again! I think it's too bad Ryan didn't get to ride the Sherman-S up that hill but for all'y'll big riders looking for large wheels—this one (and MasPro) are looking good! Edited November 8, 2022 by Tawpie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post kiitick Posted November 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) This is the video I used. You should be able to just drop the entire controller through the middle of the body. Edited November 8, 2022 by kiitick 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 At EEVEES, the S22 is currently outselling the V11. And it is just behind the best seller, the Sherman Max. I guess the folks who are selling their roller sliders can ramp up production. The S22 is becoming a hot seller, despite having a number of serious issues. What is crazy is that its direct competitor, the Master, has issues too. 2022 is such a bad year for new wheel releases. If you want suspension, 70 km/h or higher top speed, and less than 80-ish lbs., these are the only choices at the moment, unless the Hero HS is available at your dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Julian-NZ said: Just about to take my wheel apart to install the 3D printed version. Is there a video you could point to of how to do this Rawnei? I haven't found any that leave the controller attached. Follow this one but don't disconnect motor cable leave it there and slide controller out with motor. Edit: @kiitick beat me to it. Edited November 8, 2022 by Rawnei 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 8, 2022 Share Posted November 8, 2022 People seemed to be happy with the roller slider solution to the stiction in the sliders. Is there also a universally liked solution to the open design of the sliders that allow foreign matter ingress? With the latest firmware, are owners generally happy with the braking performance of the S22 at high speeds, ie. 60+ km/h (37+ mph) ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 0000 Posted November 8, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 8, 2022 22 hours ago, supercurio said: Yeah the ZX motor in the bottleneck in terms of heat dissipation with the current model. The next S22 motor - from a new factory is meant to still have the same general characteristics in terms of torque/speed balance, but generate less heat: therefore have a better efficiency and power (lower losses) When I first saw a picture of the inside of a ZX motor, I thought the design looked interesting as it looked like they made an effort to reduce the weight of the motor. Other motor issues aside, with less thermal mass available to absorb heat routinely generated by current subject to the resistance of the motor's copper windings, the longer the time spent at higher currents (high performance), the worse it is for retaining heat in the windings. Worse, heat increases winding resistance creating a negative feedback loop with high speed windings yielding a worse result requiring more current to achieve the same amount of torque (at the tradeoff of allowing for higher rpm/speeds). I didn't know people are having issues with heat with these motors, but considering that the design is functionally exactly the same as DD bicycle motors, I would apply the same lessons learned from the e-bike community and add Statorade to the motor to solve this issue. I've used it on my MXUS 3K e-bike motor and it works very well. It should work even better on EUC motors considering the amount of thermal mass available to an EUC motor where the aluminum rim is directly part of the outer motor shell unlike an e-bike motor laced with spokes providing negligible heat transfer paths. 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) Do we have a consensus that the S22 motor stator ring assembly won't slip if the S22 is ridden only on road? Edited November 9, 2022 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 If anecdotal second hand information is of any value, folks here have been riding on and off road. We have our share of jumpers too. I haven't heard of any stator slips yet. I hope I didn't draw the short straw... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tawpie said: If anecdotal second hand information is of any value, folks here have been riding on and off road. We have our share of jumpers too. I haven't heard of any stator slips yet. I hope I didn't draw the short straw... That's encouraging. The folks in your neck of the woods should represent a random enough of a sample. Just not sure of the sample size. Thanks for your input. On the other hand, you have dealers willing to swap out all motors of the units they sold. I suppose if one was to ride on road only for commuting, perhaps the likelyhood of a stator slip is greatly reduced? Edited November 9, 2022 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian-NZ Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 4 minutes ago, techyiam said: I suppose it one was to ride on road only for commuting, perhaps the likelyhood of a stator slip is greatly reduced? No big shock loading from jumps or hitting rocks where the motor has to 'boost' to keep you upright! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rawnei Posted November 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2022 2 hours ago, techyiam said: That's encouraging. The folks in your neck of the woods should represent a random enough of a sample. Just not sure of the sample size. Thanks for your input. On the other hand, you have dealers willing to swap out all motors of the units they sold. I suppose it one was to ride on road only for commuting, perhaps the likelyhood of a stator slip is greatly reduced? I don't think it matters how you ride, it's a dice throw either way, it's even possible that 100% of non pinned motors are affected and no it's just a matter of time since it's a manufacturing flaw. Thus riding it in any way possible is taking a risk. Most if not all dealers should already be aware of this and have a strategy in place to pin or replace the motors. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 5 hours ago, techyiam said: Do we have a consensus that the S22 motor stator ring assembly won't slip if the S22 is ridden only on road? No indication that this would be the case. Stator slippage is not a street vs off-road, or soft vs hard mode, gentle vs aggressive riding style thing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, supercurio said: No indication that this would be the case. Stator slippage is not a street vs off-road, or soft vs hard mode, gentle vs aggressive riding style thing. I see. Thanks. That means that anyone who is riding on an S22 without a new motor, or with a motor that has been pinned has a high probability of experiencing stator slippage. If I were to buy one of those discounted S22 now, there is a good chance that it won't be be safe to ride. I would have to wait for a motor swap, or to get the motor pinned. It would be like buying a V12 all over again. That is indeed bad news. Edited November 9, 2022 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Is 'pin the motor' an optional DIY project? Tawpie bought a heavily discounted S22. Didn't mention pin the motor as part of the pre-launch procedures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Paul A said: Is 'pin the motor' an optional DIY project? Well, if the dealer you bought it from doesn't offer a motor swap, or a retro-pinning motor service, what choice do you have? 15 minutes ago, Paul A said: Tawpie bought a heavily discounted S22. Didn't mention pin the motor as part of the pre-launch procedures. EEVEES current discounted S22's come with a promised motor swap. Edited November 9, 2022 by techyiam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Ok. Maybe a YouTuber will upload an instructional pin the motor vid sometime then. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Breaking News! The King is dead. Long live the King. KINGSONG S22 is now the best selling euc at EEVEES. The Veteran Sherman Max has been surpassed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 37 minutes ago, techyiam said: Breaking News! The King is dead. Long live the King. KINGSONG S22 is now the best selling euc at EEVEES. As an indication of interest, the various threads have: King Song 16X 190 pages S18 184 S22 175 pages Inmotion V11 148 pages. V12 70 pages. V13 58 pages. Begode/Gotway Master 89 pages. RS 31 pages. Monster Pro 29 pages. M Super X 25 pages. M Super Pro 25 pages. T4 24 pages EX 20S 17 pages Hero 14 pages Veteran Sherman 40 pages. Many factors including when model released, problems prompting discussions, demographics of members, survivorship bias, multiple threads etc..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 3 hours ago, Paul A said: Is 'pin the motor' an optional DIY project? Tawpie bought a heavily discounted S22. Didn't mention pin the motor as part of the pre-launch procedures. It is possible to DIY, but my reseller has a replacement program promised so I'll be riding gingerly, and on the street (not a whole lot of options this time of year anyway) until the replacement motors arrive and I receive instruction from my reseller. For this reason I didn't open it up to inspect—it's a 22020630 so it's on the cusp of the factory fix, but not very unlikely to have been pinned already. One very nice thing about waiting is that in addition to unpinned wheels getting more real ride hours on them, so will the ones that have been pinned so I'll have a better idea of how well the fix works. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 47 minutes ago, Paul A said: As an indication of interest, the various threads have: King Song 16X 190 pages S18 184 S22 175 pages Inmotion V11 148 pages. V12 70 pages. V13 58 pages. Begode/Gotway Master 89 pages. RS 31 pages. Monster Pro 29 pages. M Super X 25 pages. M Super Pro 25 pages. T4 24 pages EX 20S 17 pages Hero 14 pages Veteran Sherman 40 pages. Many factors including when model released, problems prompting discussions, demographics of members, survivorship bias, multiple threads etc..... hmmn..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted November 9, 2022 Share Posted November 9, 2022 Supercurio mentioned in the motor slippage thread that Eevees suggested going to Rev Rides to have the motor pinned for $50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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