Rawnei Posted November 10, 2022 Share Posted November 10, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, techyiam said: Thanks for sharing this info. The S22 has been on sale for some months now. What is puzzling is why wouldn't dealers themselves, like the fine folks at EEVEES, know how serious the stator slipping issue is? Why would they need to be told by someone who does not even work in the industry. Is the failure rate a publically know stat? It almost seems like the dealers were not aware of the severity, and were told or warned by @supercurio about the severity of stator slippage issue. Shouldn't this be more of a thing between Kingsong and the dealers/distributors themselves who would have the statistical data, and the actual failed units to diagnose? Eevees do know but because of poor communication and support from KS they choose to dump their current stock now anyway which is criticized, at first they didn't even have the stator pin option available but @supercurio connected them with RevRides to make it possible, many resellers are NOT doing the same thing instead they are responsibly either waiting for replacement motors or pin existing motors before sending wheels out to customers, for instance MyEwheel, RevRides and I believe AlienRides to mention a few are doing that instead and taking rider safety very seriously. The biggest problem IMO is that it's the resellers that are taking action and being responsible for the whole thing out of necessity while KS is not communicating enough and not giving enough support to the resellers. And yes the severity of the situation has become known because of the community, @supercurio gathering facts and connecting the resellers to collaborate on this to solve it together. It's really a shame because as I've said many times it's a fantastic wheel otherwise. Edited November 10, 2022 by Rawnei 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rawnei Posted November 11, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 11, 2022 For those with a 3D printer and having or planning on getting the CNC sliders I just released a 3D printable dirt protection system for that if you're interested: 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 This thread is awfully quiet. Is everyone happy now with their S22. Did the pinned motor, and CNC roller sliders did the trick? No more cutouts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, techyiam said: Is everyone happy now with their S22. No possible way. But I'm a happy camper! Still piddling with the suspension because I bought a woefully undersized spring so now I know exactly what "suspension packing" feels like and I'm having to get into better shape because it's a lot more to horse around than my other wheels. But other than that no issues to report after my cleaning and shimming. I still want to try a next gen slider system just in case it's OMG but for now I'm still on the lubrication-free stock slider pads. I haven't heard from eevees about motors yet, but whatever. They'll get to me soon enough. I did have a WTF moment the other day... 'speeding along' (for me) and went across a driveway that cut through the bike path. On the far side was the typical rampish rise (driveway down lower, transitions back to bike path level) and I hit that much faster than I usually do. Stupid wheel ate it completely up... it was like it wasn't even there. I had to go back and do it again I was so surprised. I'm getting the feeling the shock is valved for high amplitude compression damping at the expense of low, and that's why it feels like a sports car on the small stuff. Makes sense to me as I believe it was intended to win the trail/jumper segment, not the street. But it makes me wonder what $800 worth of premium shock with fast and slow circuits would feel like... not enough to spend the money, but curious how much a difference it would make over the $250 kit that came stock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tawpie said: No possible way. I see. Perhaps no real show stoppers for you yet. At least you provided a data point for someone who rode it gentlely. 8 minutes ago, Tawpie said: But I'm a happy camper! Still piddling with the suspension because I bought a woefully undersized spring so now I know exactly what "suspension packing" feels like and I'm having to get into better shape because it's a lot more to horse around than my other wheels. But other than that no issues to report after my cleaning and shimming. I still want to try a next gen slider system just in case it's OMG but for now I'm still on the lubrication-free stock slider pads. Isn't suspension packing means the rebound damping is too high for the spring rate so that after the initial compression, the travel could not recover fully or sufficiently before the next bump compress it even more. I think in your case with a grossly under sprung coil, your sag is so high that you have basically miniscule suspension travel? My gut feeling tells me with CNC roller sliders and proper setup, you will have a OMG moment in the future. Just curious, of your two suspension Kingsongs, which of the two suspension do you prefer more at the present time? 23 minutes ago, Tawpie said: I did have a WTF moment the other day... 'speeding along' (for me) and went across a driveway that cut through the bike path. On the far side was the typical rampish rise (driveway down lower, transitions back to bike path level) and I hit that much faster than I usually do. Stupid wheel ate it completely up... it was like it wasn't even there. I had to go back and do it again I was so surprised. I'm getting the feeling the shock is valved for high amplitude compression damping at the expense of low, and that's why it feels like a sports car on the small stuff. Makes sense to me as I believe it was intended to win the trail/jumper segment, not the street. But it makes me wonder what $800 worth of premium shock with fast and slow circuits would feel like... not enough to spend the money, but curious how much a difference it would make over the $250 kit that came stock. Wow, that's nice. I could have use that capability when I hit a large indentation in the road, and ended up with a nasty crash. With high end premium shocks, it is possible to have great suspension control, and good small bump compliance. Expensive though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 46 minutes ago, techyiam said: Isn't suspension packing means the rebound damping is too high for the spring rate so that after the initial compression, the travel could not recover fully or sufficiently before the next bump compress it even more That's my understanding... in my case the spring is so weak it can't return the suspension after absorbing a small hit, even with rebound set at fastest. Sag is a function of spring strength and right now I have far more preload on it than I like just to hold the wheel weight... so that's where I am starting. 500# and 600# will arrive shortly, we'll see how they do. The CNC/roller design makes a lot of sense and if it can stand up to dust/grit etc. and not wear out every 100 miles it'll be banger. 46 minutes ago, techyiam said: of your two suspension Kingsongs, which of the two suspension do you prefer more at the present time? I'm a little torn there... the S18 (now that it works properly, some shims were necessary) with the very soft TR1 is really comfortable on the road. I haven't had the fully dialed in setup on dirt yet, and sadly it's past dirt riding season now so all I have is street to compare. The S22 (with my bad spring) is about a half step above a hard tail on the stuff I ride over whereas the S18 is a full step. I also have the S22 aired up really firm (38 psi on S22, 24 psi on the S18 and 16X), I'm still getting used to turning it and wanted the tire profile nice and round. I need to see how the S18 handles that transition that the S22 made disappear... I think the S18 would be ok but I've never had it eat something like the S22 ate that transition. It was downright strange. I'm used to getting a kick in the knees from that kind of bump... I got nothing. So bearing in mind that the S22 is not anywhere near properly adjusted and the tire is overinflated and the S18 is pretty dialed in, for now the S18 is winning. S22 is quite a bit more comfortable than my 16X especially near the end of a long ride, but it's not yet to the S18's level. Edited November 18, 2022 by Tawpie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire1337 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, techyiam said: This thread is awfully quiet. Is everyone happy now with their S22. Did the pinned motor, and CNC roller sliders did the trick? No more cutouts? I'm awaiting my CNC sliders and proper shock bolts to really open up the suspension. Right now I've disconnected the rubber stops from the sliders and cleaned it all out and using some graphite dry lube and it does OK for me even being a light rider at only 125lbs with the stock 750lb coil. Anyway, I'll report back in a few weeks once my upgrades are installed. Edited November 18, 2022 by spitfire1337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiitick Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 I've got my new pinned motor from ewheels, replaced the sliders with cnc. I love the suspension. I'm not a nut about it, though. It is by far the smoothest ride I've ever had. My road is full of seams, bumps and pot holes. I flew over all of that today going 50kph, something I wouldn't feel comfortable doing on my Sherman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 46 minutes ago, kiitick said: It is by far the smoothest ride I've ever had. My road is full of seams, bumps and pot holes. I flew over all of that today going 50kph, Wow, that sounds really encouraging for the S22. You don't seemed to be complaining about the controller. Are you happy with the acceleration and braking as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Tawpie said: I have far more preload on it than I like just to hold the wheel weight.. Hmmm. Interesting. Wasn't Elliot using a 300 lb. spring? Mind you, he is using one that is way too long. And he has to pre-compress it first before he could fit it onto the shock. Is his preload so high that he was able to overcome suspension packing? , 2 hours ago, Tawpie said: it eat something like the S22 ate that transition. It was downright strange. I'm used to getting a kick in the knees from that kind of bump... I got nothing. So, the S22 really good for the big hits. What is your current setting for suspension travel adjustment from full travel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUCzero Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Hej friends. We all know the suspension on the Master will bever be as good for drops as the s22... but... I need a favor from one or two of the s22 rider's. Can you test a few drops with straight legs to find the bottom out limit? Can it drop 40cm, 50, 60 without bottom out? I am going to tweak and test the Master suspension system, and want to get as close to the s22 max drop as possible. I know it will never be as flush due to shorter travel, but I should be able to get bottom out prevention almost at the same level. More or less. Please also write your weight. It is ok with inches and pounds if you prefer, I can convert to metrics after 🤪 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FunTech4Real Posted November 18, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, EUCzero said: Hej friends. We all know the suspension on the Master will bever be as good for drops as the s22... but... I need a favor from one or two of the s22 rider's. Can you test a few drops with straight legs to find the bottom out limit? Can it drop 40cm, 50, 60 without bottom out? I am going to tweak and test the Master suspension system, and want to get as close to the s22 max drop as possible. I know it will never be as flush due to shorter travel, but I should be able to get bottom out prevention almost at the same level. More or less. Please also write your weight. It is ok with inches and pounds if you prefer, I can convert to metrics after 🤪 I did a 5 foot drop on my S22 a few days ago (I'm 200 lbs) and it felt fine but afterwards I found out it broke the shock - the compression adjustment and rebound adjustment no longer function; it's basically stuck on minimum compression and minimum rebound no matter how I adjust it. EWheels sent me a new shock the next day, their support is amazing. I won't be doing any drops over ~3ft anymore. I also have the CNC sliders and they are a complete game changer. The S22 without CNC sliders has a rough ride and the suspension is really only good for big drops and stairs. With the CNC sliders it feels better than the V11 and S18 on every surface (I have 1200 miles on my S18 and 1700 on my V11) Edited November 18, 2022 by sevin7 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunstrong Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 11 hours ago, Tawpie said: I haven't heard from eevees about motors yet, but whatever. They'll get to me soon enough. Bradley said on facebook that as of yesterday they ship all S22s with upgraded motors. Not sure if that means the new motors have arrived or they got the old ones pinned at Revrides. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhz06 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Just got my replacement motor today from Eevees. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, jrhz06 said: Just got my replacement motor today from Eevees. Is it still a ZX motor? What date is stamped on the rim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 9 hours ago, techyiam said: Wasn't Elliot using a 300 lb. spring? He was, and that's why I went that light... and he's a much much larger rider than I! BUT, he was running stock suspension with glue and bound binding bolts too. 9 hours ago, techyiam said: So, the S22 really good for the big hits. What is your current setting for suspension travel adjustment from full travel? full soft compression, full fast rebound. Which really doesn't matter since the spring can't lift the wheel. Everything will change when it's properly sprung, of that I'm certain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, Tawpie said: he's a much much larger rider than I! BUT, he was running stock suspension with glue and bound binding bolts too. Oh wow, there is a mystery right there. Are you not using factory stock shock? 12 minutes ago, Tawpie said: full soft compression, full fast rebound. Which really doesn't matter since the spring can't lift the wheel. Everything will change when it's properly sprung, of that I'm certain Sorry, if I was not clear enough earlier. Suspension travel is adjustable on the S22 via three bolts and a bracket that is fastened to the battery box on either side. This is how the suspension links are attached to the battery box. There are a series of threaded holes so you can choose how low or high you would like to mount this bracket. It's position will ultimately determine the length of the suspension travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, techyiam said: Are you not using factory stock shock? I'm on the factory shock as was Elliot IIRC. What I meant was I'm pretty certain he still had the so-called-grease in his sliders and hadn't discovered that the binding bolts are doing their job and binding the shock so it can't rotate on the linkage. I really can't stress how much of a difference getting that binding bolt at the correct length makes, it's a very simple fix. Fun tidbit: they're called binding bolts because that style of very long shoulder bolt used to be used to hold large stacks of paper together—they were an easily removable 'binding'. I used to be a printer and they were very common... for holding paper together. 16 minutes ago, techyiam said: Suspension travel is adjustable on the S22 via three bolts and a bracket that is fastened to the battery box on either side Ah, I misinterpreted. I'm at the stock height, 2 visible holes. Edited November 18, 2022 by Tawpie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire1337 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 Well, blew the controller in my S22 today. Roughly 250 miles. Was having a blast with it before it died though. Hit a root and landed in some sugar sand. Over torqued the wheel trying to gain traction and it dumped me. Wouldn't turn on again and has resistance in the motor now. 😭 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NErider Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 12 minutes ago, spitfire1337 said: Well, blew the controller in my S22 today. Roughly 250 miles. Was having a blast with it before it died though. Hit a root and landed in some sugar sand. Over torqued the wheel trying to gain traction and it dumped me. Wouldn't turn on again and has resistance in the motor now. 😭 You may want to remove the controller and disconnect the batteries and the motor leads. That will prevent any phantom discharge of the battery packs. Also, you can unplug the motor and see if it spins freely still. Do you have the updated motor with pins? If not, it's possible the stator slipped. And the motor is toast too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire1337 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 7 minutes ago, NErider said: You may want to remove the controller and disconnect the batteries and the motor leads. That will prevent any phantom discharge of the battery packs. Also, you can unplug the motor and see if it spins freely still. Do you have the updated motor with pins? If not, it's possible the stator slipped. And the motor is toast too. It came from revrides and they said it is pinned, and it does have 2 stickers on it with different dates. One from the end of June and another from mid July. I'll be pulling the controller once I get home. Was shredding some trails when it happened. Shame, as I was having an a solute blast with it clearing 8ft+ tabletops with ease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, spitfire1337 said: Well, blew the controller in my S22 today. Roughly 250 miles. Was having a blast with it before it died though. Hit a root and landed in some sugar sand. Over torqued the wheel trying to gain traction and it dumped me. Wouldn't turn on again and has resistance in the motor now. 😭 Darn (stronger word is in order, but). Sounds a lot like what was happening to early batch S22s... high power demand and drop the wheel (zero traction)—controller goes poof. What firmware version were you running? Edited November 18, 2022 by Tawpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spitfire1337 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 31 minutes ago, Tawpie said: Darn (stronger word is in order, but). Sounds a lot like what was happening to early batch S22s... high power demand and drop the wheel (zero traction)—controller goes poof. What firmware version were you running? Latest version which I believe was 2.22 if I recall. And 2.15 for BMS... might be other way around, can't remember exactly lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 26 minutes ago, spitfire1337 said: Latest version which I believe was 2.22 if I recall. And 2.15 for BMS... might be other way around, can't remember exactly lol Ah crud. That means firmware may not be why we haven't seen as many blown control boards recently. I'm certain RevRides will take good care of you, they're solid people. But $@#$%@. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrhz06 Posted November 18, 2022 Share Posted November 18, 2022 4 hours ago, techyiam said: Is it still a ZX motor? What date is stamped on the rim? Yes, still ZX. Couple of date stickers, latest 8/25/22. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.