Mten3

[Seba]

29 minutes ago, wehey said:

Another question on top of the rucksack one........

It’s an 800w motor but I noticed that when gently accelerating the watts on the app where shooting to 1100+ without any effort. 
What would a safe limit be to avoid a cutout?

Apps that read data from Gotways doesn't report real watts. Divide their power indications by a factor of three and you'll get a rough estimation of real power. This is because Gotway wheels doesn't report DC current but motor phase current.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Seba

[wehey]

18 minutes ago, Seba said:

Apps that read data from Gotways doesn't report real watts. Divide their power indications by a factor of three and you'll get a rough estimation of real power. This is because Gotway wheels doesn't report DC current but motor phase current.

Nice one 👍

That makes sense. I was a bit alarmed at the amount of power o thought I was using. 
Would I be better of setting an Amp alarm?

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, wehey said:

It’s an 800w motor but I noticed that when gently accelerating the watts on the app where shooting to 1100+ without any effort. 
What would a safe limit be to avoid a cutout?

In addition to what is said above, 800W is only the nominal wattage. Peak wattage can be much higher. A motor is (for this purpose) just a hunk of metal, so unless you melt something or it gets so hot the magnets die, the wattage can get as high as you like in the short term.

The real limitations in EUCs are always

• the battery (supply side of the power equation) which might just not give enough current to keep you upright
• the motor torque that just approaches zero as you approach the top speed, so you can always overlean any wheel if you are close to its motor's top speed

That's what crashes people - accelerating too hard at high speed or with a too small battery. Motor power numbers are best ignored and you don't have to worry about them

Edited December 28, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[.....]

I plan to take my mten on my 'plane'. of course its a plane in the loosest sense of the word. No regs on my plane, no regs on my euc, no communications, no phones, no electronic naviagation, no permits, no licensing, no list with my name on it somewhere.... just a pilot without a clue and little worries. Damn I love my life!

A backpack with cutom foam inserted sounds like a feasible solution to carrying the mten on your back if need be. Maybe just a single foam piece to protect the back from the pedal hanger.

Edited December 28, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[.....]

3 hours ago, wehey said:

Another question on top of the rucksack one........

It’s an 800w motor but I noticed that when gently accelerating the watts on the app where shooting to 1100+ without any effort. 
What would a safe limit be to avoid a cutout?

Get in a grass yard with a hill. Climb slowly and push until it beeps and stops going. I learned where the cutout was on mine like that. If you are so inclined, you can review eucw data as you overlean it. YOu will get an idea of the number, but just remember that its not a static thing and the amount you can ask of the wheel, changes as its battery gets lower. I have the 420wh mten and have yet to overlean it on pavement. Of course, I dont ride it fast, its designed for turtle fun! @Seba told me to view those power specs as if they are calculated in beans. So basically, if you try to make sense of it, you are wasting time you could be riding. I hit top speed beeps every now and then, just to recall where it is. The fun is WELL below that speed anyhow. Respect the beep as a mistake on your part and youll need little worry.... OR, view beeps as a mere warning and when your chin eats pavement, you'll know you've leaned too far

Edited December 28, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Mac]

19 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Airlines worldwide have agreed on "We don't transport personal electric vehicles, even without a battery. Too much hassle."

100Wh is just in some rule somewhere that they don't even bother with.

Only if you fly your own personal plane, which "$100 hamburger" refers to. Includes the flight costs

Ha 

[wehey]

17 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Get in a grass yard with a hill. Climb slowly and push until it beeps and stops going. I learned where the cutout was on mine like that. If you are so inclined, you can review eucw data as you overlean it. YOu will get an idea of the number, but just remember that its not a static thing and the amount you can ask of the wheel, changes as its battery gets lower. I have the 420wh mten and have yet to overlean it on pavement. Of course, I dont ride it fast, its designed for turtle fun! @Seba told me to view those power specs as if they are calculated in beans. So basically, if you try to make sense of it, you are wasting time you could be riding. I hit top speed beeps every now and then, just to recall where it is. The fun is WELL below that speed anyhow. Respect the beep as a mistake on your part and youll need little worry.... OR, view beeps as a mere warning and when your chin eats pavement, you'll know you've leaned too far

So the beep has nothing to do with the speed your traveling and more about the amount of power you are using at any given time. 

[meepmeepmayer]

12 minutes ago, wehey said:

So the beep has nothing to do with the speed your traveling and more about the amount of power you are using at any given time. 

No, beeps are speed-related only. There's no "too much power used" beep or anything as far as I know

[bnapalm]

5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

No, beeps are speed-related only. There's no "too much power used" beep or anything as far as I know

I don't think this is true. I've gotten beeps on my 67v 420Wh mten3 at near standstill, together with pedal dip, under very hard acceleration. Also it seems the beeps come in at a lower speed on medium acceleration than when gently accelerating. Although now that I think about it, the latter could be due to heavy voltage drop under acceleration (Lower voltage = lower speed limit for beeps).

 

Still, I seem to remember getting beeps at near standstill when for example going backwards and then accelerating forward aggressively. Or when testing the limits of it accelerating from standstill. But that was before I reached that limit and ended with a mildly painful rib for a few weeks, so I will no longer try reaching the acceleration limit of a gotway, mten3 or any other ..

 

Edit: just tried an experiment - deliberately overpowering the wheel at home, bracing my arms against 2 poles, while trying to accelerate into it with my mten3. I definitely got the overpower rapid beeping, together with pedal dip. Only 2 beeps because I didn't want to hold that position for long and actually fry something in the wheel, but still - it was definitely not speed related, as the wheel was standing still. Note that at the point of the beeps, I would possibly already be off wheel and face down on the floor, were I actually riding, due to the pedal dip. I assume this is because the overpowering was near instantaneous. The wheel probably needs some half a second or so to initiate the beeps, as I was able to get a momentary pedal dip without any beeps. I had to push harder and a bit longer to get the beeps.

During this, EUC world reported max current 147.5A and max wattage of 9167W. I'm interested what this corresponds to in reality.. should I divide by 3? Minimum voltage reported during this experiment was 56.5V with nearly full battery (65.8V stationary no load).

Edited December 29, 2020 by bnapalm
Additional information added

[Scottie888]

I too have experienced beeps when going slow up an incline, hard leaning & ofcos, going at speed. Usually this happens on low battery/voltage (~or<30% if I recall correctly) so I'm assuming its power related. On full or >80% charge, I can easily climb 20+% sustained inclines but on lower end of battery, I can barely climb them at walking speed without beeps.

I'm guessing its likely to happen more to the little Mten3 due to its small battery capacity so OP needs to be aware of this quirk & always be sitware of battery condition.

[meepmeepmayer]

The experiment is always right, awesome

Maybe it's the voltage drop causing the low battery beeps and tiltback to appear? At 15% (= 54.75V for the 67V wheels, or = 68.4V for the 84V wheel) or less the wheel starts beeping, at 0% it does the tiltback also.

Here's the website with the spec sheet: http://www.begode.com/productinfo/371629.html - mentions no "too much power draw" type beeps, and I never heard of any of those on any Gotway wheel.

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, bnapalm said:

I'm interested what this corresponds to in reality

->||<-

that far from letting the smoke out, no matter how it's divided! That's a boat load of power into a system intended for 800 W nominal.

[.....]

Day one of my mten on a full battery. I did an open box video and headed up my grass yard. I got about 6 feet, overpowered the wheel and it stopped and lie beeping at me. Of course, I tried again and got same result. I just assued it was an overpower situation.

 

Edited December 29, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[bnapalm]

22 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The experiment is always right, awesome

Maybe it's the voltage drop causing the low battery beeps and tiltback to appear? At 15% (= 54.75V for the 67V wheels, or = 68.4V for the 84V wheel) or less the wheel starts beeping, at 0% it does the tiltback also.

Here's the website with the spec sheet: http://www.begode.com/productinfo/371629.html - mentions no "too much power draw" type beeps, and I never heard of any of those on any Gotway wheel.

Thanks for the spec sheet. Based on the speed of beeps, it would correspond to either 80% motor output or hall malfunction (I didn't keep it under that power load for longer than 2 beeps so cannot say for sure if it would be more than 2). Definitely not low battery - due to the low battery capacity of the 67V, I hear those at the end of every ride, and they are definitely much slower beeps. I'm leaning towards it being the 80% alarm, even if it is labeled in the spec sheet as speed alarm. 0km/h is still technically a speed, and at the loads the wheel was subject to, that "speed" was taking over 80% of motor/battery power.

12 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

->||<-

that far from letting the smoke out, no matter how it's divided! That's a boat load of power into a system intended for 800 W nominal.

Good point. Although I doubt it would cause damage if it's just a momentary power draw (hasn't so far), it is definitely possible. I'm not too afraid of ruining the wheel, as the 67V version was cheap, but I would not want the battery bursting up in flames, even less so indoors, so I will try to refrain from too many such experiments..

[Scottie888]

26 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Day one of my mten on a full battery. I did an open box video and headed up my grass yard. I got about 6 feet, overpowered the wheel and it stopped and lie beeping at me. Of course, I tried again and got same result. I just assued it was an overpower situation.

 

The mechanical advantage combo of a 10" tire with a relatively powerful 800w motor makes for torquey fun but the small battery makes for easy overpowering situations. There's a route I ride on with a non stop climb of at least 1k ft for close to a mile. The litttle Mten3 does it with amazing aplomb that I freaked a bit the 1st time I rode it.

Pluses & minuses I guess.

[meepmeepmayer]

5 minutes ago, bnapalm said:

I'm leaning towards it being the 80% alarm, even if it is labeled in the spec sheet as speed alarm. 0km/h is still technically a speed, and at the loads the wheel was subject to, that "speed" was taking over 80% of motor/battery power.

This is the most official info we have on the 80% alarm: click. It's supposed to appear at 80% of the motor's max speed for a given voltage, or something like this. This is why the speed it appears at falls with falling voltage/battery charge, and it might appear unexpectedly when the voltage drop reduces that speed suddenly.

The lowest speed the 80% alarm would appear is 24kph. Too fast to explain your beeps?

Anyways, don't break your wheel trying to find out what those mystery beeps are But thanks for the tests!

17 minutes ago, bnapalm said:

Good point. Although I doubt it would cause damage if it's just a momentary power draw (hasn't so far), it is definitely possible. I'm not too afraid of ruining the wheel, as the 67V version was cheap, but I would not want the battery bursting up in flames, even less so indoors, so I will try to refrain from too many such experiments..

The battery wouldn't burst in flames. You'd just fall on your face because you overleaned the wheel and it couldn't keep up, or because you fried the board/motor cables in the worst case (you'd have to do pendulums or a huuuuuge steep hill until the wheel dies to achieve that). But the battery would not be a worry Even with a fried wheel and a short killing all the electronics, batteries seem to be unaffected.

30 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Day one of my mten on a full battery. I did an open box video and headed up my grass yard. I got about 6 feet, overpowered the wheel and it stopped and lie beeping at me. Of course, I tried again and got same result. I just assued it was an overpower situation.

Thx for video. To me: you overleaned it or it just slipped on the grass (wheel was silent). The tire spun up (faster speed beeps). Then it fell over (slower fallen over beeps).

[.....]

10 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Thx for video. To me: you overleaned it or it just slipped on the grass (wheel was silent). The tire spun up (faster speed beeps). Then it fell over (slower fallen over beeps).

It came to a complete stop and dumped me on my knees. I was headed up hill and hit a small hole and definitely overloaded the wheel. The beeps were very fast in succession. I've heard the falling over beep and overspeed and that wasnt it. Tho falling down from spin out is almost the norm. It DOES give me the 'fall over beeps' too, AFTER it simply disables the power to the motor. It happens from time to time in soft yards when Im acting a fool. No damages so far. Keep in mind, mine is the baby version of 420wh at 67v. I guess i could run eucw and log it and MAKE it happen again to check what exactly its shutting down at. We'll have to wait until yard isnt snow covered and wet tho. Slick tire fo sho on the mten.

 

As for backpak, I'd suggest to pick a decent sized one that you like, and add foam to it. Unless you are looking for a specific style, just go with one that seems of good strength and quality with a good return policy Im measuring 19x12x10" to comfortably fit an mten and a backerboard/foam. So many choices, maybe itll be fun to find out and let us know? I found this, maybe worth a shot? Just a guess tho... One could always gut the dividers and customize it to fit im perhaps.

https://www.amazon.com/18-4-Anti-Theft-Resistant-Suiltable-Traveling/dp/B0838SZBM4/ref=sr_1_26?_encoding=UTF8&c=ts&dchild=1&keywords=Laptop%2BBackpacks&qid=1609320182&refinements=p_n_feature_four_browse-bin%3A11549033011&rnid=11549032011&s=pc&sr=1-26&ts_id=335604011&th=1

Edited December 30, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[wehey]

Just now, wehey said:

30 Litre Berghaus ftw. Gonna order one today 👍

[.....]

Let us know how you like and pictures. I'l be needing a backpack for mine this spring. No harm in waiting for you to be the guinea pig, as I've no gift cards.

[wehey]

On 12/30/2020 at 9:56 AM, ShanesPlanet said:

Let us know how you like and pictures. I'l be needing a backpack for mine this spring. No harm in waiting for you to be the guinea pig, as I've no gift cards.

Happy Days. She’s a bit snug, but she fits 😀😀

[.....]

awesome! Snug is good. Hows it feel on the back. Do the shoulders seem like theyll hold up for a bit? I'm getting one as soon as I have a decent idea it will work. Yours looks promising. Thanks for the update!

[wehey]

21 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

awesome! Snug is good. Hows it feel on the back. Do the shoulders seem like theyll hold up for a bit? I'm getting one as soon as I have a decent idea it will work. Yours looks promising. Thanks for the update!

It's actually ok and doesn't feel like it weighs 10kg. You probably wouldn't want it hanging off your shoulders for a long time but for popping in and out of shops it will be perfect 👌 

[.....]

7 minutes ago, wehey said:

It's actually ok and doesn't feel like it weighs 10kg. You probably wouldn't want it hanging off your shoulders for a long time but for popping in and out of shops it will be perfect 👌 

GOod info, thanks! Im looking for something I could ride an euc with it on my back. Dunno why, just cause i guess. Of course, weight on the shoulders is weight regardless. Just wondering if the straps seem comfy enough or if theyre a little meager?

 

[RetroThruster]

I'm jealous of you guys with healthy shoulders that can put such a heavy pack on without hurting yourself, be careful, trust me, you do not want shoulder surgery.

Edited December 31, 2020 by RetroThruster

[Tawpie]

An mTen in your pack will help initiate the roll if you fall, so it's a safety feature! Yeah, that's it. Just don't fall over backwards, you don't want to squash the baby.