Rollinthunder Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Hey everyone, just got my 18xl yesterday. Am currently charging it, app says it is at 100% and 84v, but the light on the charger won't turn green. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) Which app? Did it not turn green as soon as the app displayed 100%, or did you keep it in for a while (how long?) and it still wouldn't go green? Ideas: Different apps may have different 100% thresholds, so wheel and app may not always agree. It may take a while before the charging is finished. If you had the charger in for a while after it you were at 100%: to make sure the charger is ok and not set to a too high voltage, you can switch the wheel on and check if there is an overvoltage alarm at regular intervals. It's probably nothing but it never hurts to be careful. Edited February 25, 2020 by meepmeepmayer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollinthunder Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 Thanks for the response. I used both the kingsong app and euc world, both displaying the battery at 100%. After seeing the apps displaying fully charged, I kept the charger in for about 25 more mins waiting for the light to turn green. As I had just gotten it yesterday, my plan was to do a full charge and full drain to calibrate the battery. Regarding the overcharge alarm, would I have to turn the wheel on while the charger is plugged or unplugged? Obviously I'm just worried about a sudden cutout due to battery health. Should I be? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) I think it does turn green as it might sense a cell taking charge (balancing cells). If that is the case this can take time. It could be that the read out is a little off showing a value not entirely true so the top charge is still ongoing. I read somewhere you might be able to adjust a charger if you open it, I do not recommend doing this. But it depends on how fine tuned charger is to where it enter a fully charged stage (green led). The first charge (few) always acts a little funny and could take longer. In the way my experience is with lithium batteries. Edited February 25, 2020 by Unventor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted February 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 25, 2020 The overvoltage alarm should sound when the wheel is on, whether the charger is in or not. But in doubt check without the charger. 25 min isn't very long. I think it will just need some more time. Maybe check every 15 or 30 minutes (depending how paranoid you are). It may very well take 2 hours or more before the battery is actually full and the charger switches off. When you have a new (first) wheel, you notice every tiny peculiarity and worry something is wrong. I did that too. Usually it's nothing. Probably your symptoms amount to exactly nothing. So don't be concerned 43 minutes ago, Rollinthunder said: As I had just gotten it yesterday, my plan was to do a full charge and full drain to calibrate the battery. That's not how it works. Depleting the battery does nothing. Charging to 100% and keeping the battery there (ideally overnight with the charger in) can balance the cells, but you can do that any time. And do that after it is confirmed your charger isn't overcharging (which you can check by seeing what appears first - green light or an overvoltage alarm, and which is just a tiny theoretical possibility). 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 With my KS wheels I noticed that with charger plugged in it tends to show 84v early, but to push the battery to fully charged takes time, a lot of time compared to early 40% same as a phone. If I leave charger in för maybe 1 hour it take langer time before I see voltage drop in app. Almost as if fuel meter in car doesn't show how much extra you have in tank above full reading. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollinthunder Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 @Unventor have you noticed that with the 18xl as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 40 minutes ago, Rollinthunder said: @Unventor have you noticed that with the 18xl as well? Nope. But both my KS18L 1st batch and KS16X 1st batch (same battery power and same lift sensor and depending on motor might be similar too) show same behavior. Regardless which of my 2 original KS charger or custom build 300W smart charger (dealer calibrated to my KS16X). So in short I could be wrong, but on first charge I wouldn't consider this an issue at all. Most are too keep to go ride a new wheel or leave it charging night over, I think that is why we have not seen any asking this yet as I recall. KS18L and KS18XL share same control board from same build time. Now mine obviously is an older version than yours. But one way to test this is to see how far at same speed you can ride before battery drops from 100% to 99% or from top volt (resting) to 1 volt lower. Like 84.3v to 83.3v if that is what you see in the app. I sold a lot of It stuff. In general charging and discharging batteries on new laptop or phones takes about 5-6 full cycles to push or extent battery to gull working range. This might be a little different on a multi cell big battery pack. I wouldn't it, nor have I noticed this on any of my wheels (also my Inmotion ones, but I didn't bring this up before due to different build to your question). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Just as a side note. @Seba suggest to use a smart wall plug that you can control by phone. I got myself a TP-link HS-110 plug. In this model you can monitor effect used and can add timer settings to avoid over charging and risk forgetting wheel plugged in charging. Like I set it to charge when I get home with a 4 hour on period set. After 4 hours it turns of the power so charger can't work anymore. I can even do this outside my network through internet. So I can set a wheel to be ready to start charging so when I get home the wheel is fully charged. Swap wheels and set the other on timer/schedule charging. It is really neat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollinthunder Posted February 27, 2020 Author Share Posted February 27, 2020 Stupid question, but is the max voltage 84.3V? I recall the app only displaying 84.2V. I was right there! 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 The fast answer I have is neither of my wheels have showen 84.0v as max charged. There is always a slight variation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 The voltage measurement is never very exact. Can be off +-1V under normal circumstances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) On 2/25/2020 at 9:50 AM, Rollinthunder said: Hey everyone, just got my 18xl yesterday. Am currently charging it, app says it is at 100% and 84v, but the light on the charger won't turn green. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks! Okay, but what was the current? The second phase of the lithium charge holds it at ~84V until low current. I suspect everything is fine for you. Edited March 13, 2020 by xorbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) Charger light goes green for a pretty wide range of end voltage. The apps also show 100% for a fairly wide range. For a new wheel, I'd fully charge it and ride it. Once yuo recharge it and leave it charging for an entire day, I'd bet that light goes to green. Check to see how many watts the app is reporting, is being sent. Maybe you're seeing a charging light problem and its nothng to do with anything but the light being bad. All this battery talk got me looking into mine and I noticed it was only charging up to 83.8 with a green light and apps showing 100%. Even tho the light is green, the charger still trickles a few watts into the wheel. Seeing my voltage wasnt the 84.1 (yes i"m ocd) and having a charger with wheel otw that DOES show 84.1 at full, i decided to check some things. My charger was putting out... 83.8v. I opened the charger and found the glued trim pot and adjusted until It showed 84.1V. Im am by no means an authority on any of this, but I assume the batteries balance out some as the charger trickles max voltage. Any cells that may be low, I am hoping are absorbing the overage. So much speculation about what level to keep batteries at, so dont quote me at all. I just know that if I calibrate BOTH my chargers to 84.1v, they will work together more effectively than being offset. I also know that if I went to sell my wheel and it shows anything less than 84v, I'd NEVER be able to get the buyer to accept the fact that 83.8 doesnt indicate a battery problem. *counter clockwise on trimpot seemed to increase voltage(may be decreasing amperage tho, i didnt check...feeling lazy today). This is all at your own risk and I assume no responsibility if this is the worst advice in the world. Edited April 29, 2020 by ShanesPlanet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 On 2/25/2020 at 6:50 PM, Rollinthunder said: Hey everyone, just got my 18xl yesterday. Am currently charging it, app says it is at 100% and 84v, but the light on the charger won't turn green. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks! Should take roughly something about 2-4h once ~84V are reached until charging is completed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 1 hour ago, ShanesPlanet said: I also know that if I went to sell my wheel and it shows anything less than 84v, I'd NEVER be able to get the buyer to accept the fact that 83.8 doesnt indicate a battery problem. 83.8 / 20 => 4.19V per cell. If they can't understand that, you probably don't want to do business with them anyway. The point is to err slightly under as over 84 is over-charging which shortens cell life. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 41 minutes ago, xorbe said: 83.8 / 20 => 4.19V per cell. If they can't understand that, you probably don't want to do business with them anyway. The point is to err slightly under as over 84 is over-charging which shortens cell life. So should i turn it back down and my others as well? Have it sit at 84.0 exactly, or 83.9 or 83.8? I know its splitting hairs, but thats what us ocd people do. Its nothing but a thing to set it. I'd just like to be precise with all the chargers and leave it alone after. Im guessing that charging at 84.2 is fine, tho nominal voltage as rest is probably lower? Specification INR18650MJ1 22.08.2014.pdf Edited April 29, 2020 by ShanesPlanet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said: So should i turn it back down and my others as well? Have it sit at 84.0 exactly, or 83.9 or 83.8? I know its splitting hairs, but thats what us ocd people do. Its nothing but a thing to set it. I'd just like to be precise with all the chargers Changing the charger voltage to 83.9+/-0.1V would require a digital multimeter with an accuracy of 0.1%. Serious multimeters with 0.1% are not really cheap and require yearly calibration (or one has only the specification...). 8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said: and leave it alone after. I strongly assume that the chargers are not so precise with their voltage regulation. Same is most probalby true with thermal compensation and short/medium/long term stability. 8 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said: Im guessing that charging at 84.2 is fine, tho nominal voltage as rest is probably lower? Specification INR18650MJ1 22.08.2014.pdf 325.43 kB · 1 download There are mol just two conditions to be met - one should reach a voltage above the balancer minimum threshold (?~4.18-4.2V? per cell) and stay below the cell overvoltage threshold (~4.25-4.28V). No idea how to get this data for ones BMS and how precise they are... PS.: By the wheel reported voltage values can be safely ignored for such considerations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) Ive a slew of meters that are fairly accurate. It seems the charger is staying pretty stable. I bumped it up to 84.2v during charge and it seems to take just fine. After resting a bit, I was reading 84.12-84.18 on the wheel. I'll call it a done deal and not worry over it. Maybe i just shortened the life of my batteries, maybe not. I also wondered if the accuracy of the bms was undermining such precision. At the very least, my ocd has been satisfied and that's worth quite a lot. Hell, i may have increased my range by 10 feet and only at the cost of 16mos of battery life! Thanks for the reply, makes a lot of sense. Edited April 30, 2020 by ShanesPlanet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 (edited) On 4/29/2020 at 2:33 PM, ShanesPlanet said: I just know that if I calibrate BOTH my chargers to 84.1v, they will work together more effectively than being offset. This makes significantly less difference than you think as long as both are fairly close. Particularly under peak voltage, both are in unison regardless -- which is the bulk of the charging. Let's say one is 83.9V and the other 84.1V. When both hit 83.9, the stronger charger keeps pushing towards 84.0, so the weaker charger retaliates by dropping current, which keeps the voltage in check at 83.9. This causes the load to proportionally shift more and more towards the 84.1 charger. Eventually 84.1 is pushing enough that the 83.9 turns off under 0.20A, and the entire load is on the 84.1 charger, and it can now peak the voltage from 83.9 to 84.1. This likely doesn't matter, as the current is probably under the max of a single charger at that point. So, you're only losing a small amount of throughput from the peak voltage of the weaker charger, down to the max current of a single charger. It's just a tiny sliver of the entire capacity. Edited May 1, 2020 by xorbe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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