Is the MCM5 different enough from the Mten3 to justify buying both?

[Denny Paul]

^TLDR; just your thoughts on the subject please. 
 

Longer version:
I just started maybe a month ago. I have a few starter wheels that I’ll probably sell soon cause all my time now goes towards an Mten3 that I now have. Man it’s so zippy! I love going from a standstill to quick enough to make my eyes water in just a few moments; it give me such a rush! I know that my future wishes in wheels must have very strong acceleration.

So I tried a ks16x recently and was surprised how much weight you have to throw into it to get it going. Even still, I’m still not sure I was operating it right cause my Mten3 felt it accelerated from a stop way faster by a huge margin. So overall, I didn’t enjoy it as much I thought I would from reading the specs and watching video reviews. I’m thinking now that’s it’s a characteristic of 16” wheels now that they feel like heavy tanks that kind of lost their zip, despite their ability to hold a higher comfortable cruising speed.

I’ve heard good things about the mcm5, maybe the 14 inch wheel will give me more stability when going above 20. Quite frankly though, I feel okay doing that with the Mten3 already, but admittedly not if I’m on a new road I’m not familiar with. So two questions really, will the mcm5 have the same acceleration feel that the Mten3 has? And does the mcm5 offer enough to justify owning both wheels?
 

appreciate your thoughts, thanks!

Edited December 11, 2019 by Denny Paul

[Rywokast]

100% yes.. the mten3 is absolutely unique there is no other EUC like it so literally ANY other EUC will be different enough to justify having both.. pretty much everyone would consider the mten3 as a trick and fun wheel only, or possibly if its their only one commuting short distances on known paths.. but it doesnt even come close to being a well rounded commuting vehicle.. im not sure if you meant KS14D or KS14S but either way both are very small and light and can be thrown around like toys relatively, you just dont have anything else but an mten to compare them to and so they probably feel like tanks even though they are very small and light.. the MCM5 is a great wheel, very fast, nimble, good battery etc.. the ergonomics and look are a personal taste most probably leaning towards nay but thats up to you.. if i had to make a recommendation i would definitely point you in the direction of a 16" wheel instead though, for a truly versatile wheel that will not fall short in any category they are by far the best middle ground, and still light enough to carry around everywhere, or discreet enough to trolley beside you or tuck under a seat or table.. perhaps a gotway tesla or inmotion v10.. im not exactly sure what your use scenario would be but with a 14" wheel you can find that sometimes it is not enough, either in top speed, stability, or for just generally bad or unknown roads, having a 14" and a 10" would still leave you at somewhat of a disadvantage compared to a 16" and a 14" or a 16" and a 10"... to answer your questions though, no.. like i said the mten is unique, no wheel has the same acceleration feel or overall feel that the mten has.. i can compare many wheels, but the mten is 100% unique, and so ANYTHING that you try will feel very weird in comparison in the beginning, however if youre dead set on the MCM5 or nothing, yes it is a fantastic wheel and barring any comparison you would probably love it and it would definitely be different enough

[null]

If you're not yet started with EUCs I'd suggest begin with only one to see what aspects you would like for your next wheel. 14" is perfectly useable but you might be better off with something more comfortable, especially is you have the mten3 as exotic trick wheel.

[Denny Paul]

10 hours ago, Rywokast said:

Im not sure if you meant KS14D or KS14S...

if i had to make a recommendation i would definitely point you in the direction of a 16".. perhaps a gotway tesla or inmotion v10.. im not exactly sure what your use scenario would be

Sorry! I meant a KS16X. The new one that came out in 2019. My mistake, I fixed my original post. 

Funny you mention the Tesla, someone in an earlier thread mentioned that having an Mten3 and Tesla was his idea of the perfect combo of two wheels. On paper, I would agree. But what I don’t know and what isn’t on any spec sheet is acceleration, and that’s what I’m most interested in. My only experience of a 16 inch wheel is the Ks16x, and I don’t know if it was user error, or it just accelerates much slower comparatively to the Mten3. But the experience has sort of poisoned the well, and now I’m thinking that 16” wheels don’t accelerate fast because they’ve got too big of a wheel for the motor to spin. 

My use scenario is only for fun; I’m not trying to get any practical function out of it really. I just want a head rush from how fast they’re able to accelerate! My hope is that the mcm5 will feel size/stability wise like a vf5 (that’s the reference for me cause I learned on that and liked it) but have the same punchy acceleration as the Mten3. If so, I might buy one. If the Tesla fits that too just on a bigger more stable wheel I would consider it too.  

[mrelwood]

 

4 minutes ago, Denny Paul said:

what isn’t on any spec sheet is acceleration, and that’s what I’m most interested in.

All EUCs either accelerate as fast as you command them, or fail to do so and you crash. The speed of the acceleration is not what you are interested in, but how much effort it takes to accelerate. It depends on so many variables that it’s impossible to write down as a number.

4 minutes ago, Denny Paul said:

My only experience of a 16 inch wheel is the Ks16x, and I don’t know if it was user error, or it just accelerates much slower comparatively to the Mten3.

Every single other EUC will require more effort, ie. a larger physical lean to accelerate as fast as you do on your Mten. You will not get the same experience from any other wheel, and hunting for it may actually limit you from choosing a wheel that would have other very favourable and worthy traits.

As posted already above, every single new EUC will feel strange and wrong at first, and lack some traits you have on your current wheel. If you get yourself an MCM5 to get the Mten acceleration, you won’t get what you want, and then you’ll just have a small 14” wheel.

Depending on your size a bit, I would absolutely go for a small 16” wheel, such as the Tesla. For a 210lbs/6’5” guy like me and the way and where I ride, 14” EUC is a joke, small 16” will do temporarely, large 16” might do, but 18” is where it’s currently at.

When I got my MSX 18 months ago, I was extremely disappointed how much lean it required. It made the whole riding experience a lot more physical than on the 16S, and I didn’t expect or like that at all. But once I learned what the MSX brings me in terms of stability, off-road capability, power, speed and range, I was quickly all for it. If I had bought a wheel with a similiar acceleration than on the 16S, I’d have bought a Tesla, and gotten myself pretty much the same wheel but faster. Instead a new world opened up!

[Rywokast]

6 hours ago, Denny Paul said:

Sorry! I meant a KS16X. The new one that came out in 2019. My mistake, I fixed my original post. 

Funny you mention the Tesla, someone in an earlier thread mentioned that having an Mten3 and Tesla was his idea of the perfect combo of two wheels. On paper, I would agree. But what I don’t know and what isn’t on any spec sheet is acceleration, and that’s what I’m most interested in. My only experience of a 16 inch wheel is the Ks16x, and I don’t know if it was user error, or it just accelerates much slower comparatively to the Mten3. But the experience has sort of poisoned the well, and now I’m thinking that 16” wheels don’t accelerate fast because they’ve got too big of a wheel for the motor to spin. 

My use scenario is only for fun; I’m not trying to get any practical function out of it really. I just want a head rush from how fast they’re able to accelerate! My hope is that the mcm5 will feel size/stability wise like a vf5 (that’s the reference for me cause I learned on that and liked it) but have the same punchy acceleration as the Mten3. If so, I might buy one. If the Tesla fits that too just on a bigger more stable wheel I would consider it too.  

oh haha well that's a lot different!! 16X is a massive tire compared to another 16".. however it's no slouch, but comparing to other 16" wheels with 2.125" thick tires that weigh 15 lbs less yes it will feel cumbersome unless you're someone who already rides larger wheels.. compared to the mten that's extreme lol, the 16X is the same size as an 18" wheel in all regards except the actual tire diameter which it makes up in width, you would definitely not feel as much of a difference on a regular 14 or 16" wheel.. still quite a bit but the 16X and nikola are super sized 16" wheels lol.. I'm afraid the v5f is the second most nimble wheel imo only next to the mten, however it has a very weak motor and so initial acceleration will feel like more on the mcm5 even though it's a bit bigger and to me the tesla feels roughly the same only because I take it easy on the v5f it's possible to overlean its measly 550W motor whereas the tesla I can punch it as hard as I want and it will take off like a rocket, it also has a much higher top speed that you can sustain for longer and more safety margin and it will feel a lot more comfortable at speed like I go 50 on mine without feeling sketch.. the mcm5 is more nimble and has more torque due to physics but not enough to justify it over a tesla simply for that reason if you ask me the tesla is just better in every other aspect, I would definitely recommend it over the mcm5 though you definitely wouldn't be disappointed with either

Edited December 11, 2019 by Rywokast

[xorbe]

First yes the MCM5 is totally worth owning if you already have an MTen3.  And yeah the MTen3 feels like a rocket compared to the 16X off the line, the little wheel is so easy to command.

I went MTen3 -> 16X -> MCM5 -> TeslaV2

MTen3 - Very easy to roll suuuper slow.  I find it hard to carve, and 10" isn't resilient against choppy terrain, and it's hyper and squirrelly.

16X - Like you said, I was shocked about the weight, and how it felt like the weight was up high and hanging out front and back.  It's a nice wheel to ride once you get used to it.  But sometimes I still doubt my ability to swivel as quickly like my lesser wheels.  It lacks acceleration punch from a stop imho, have to work the wheel to hard.  The tire is more like 17.5" actually.

MCM5 - This is my go to wheel right now.  It fits in my car easy, it's "only" 37 pounds, it's stable enough to zip on a sure line in trail commuter traffic.  I find it a bit twitchy sometimes, but nothing like Mten3.  14" does feel a little small after riding the Tesla and 16X.  I love the MCM5 eggshell shape.

TeslaV2 - I really like this wheel, the only wheel I hopped on and immediately felt like I'd been riding it for months already.  Two things though, those side pads / boxy shape (I peeled the pads off), and its 42 pounds which to me feels amazingly much heavier than 37 for lugging into/out of the car.  So I wound up using the MCM5 regardless.  But the Tesla is a good ride and response characteristics.  I would kill for an eggshell shaped Tesla.

Personally, I'd like to know what the KS16S wheel is like as an all-purpose commuter wheel.  I'm not sure I'd recommend the MCM5 unless you are specifically looking for 14" of fun ... I think a 16" wheel is more versatile, Tesla, KS16S, V8F, etc.

Edited December 12, 2019 by xorbe

[Rywokast]

4 hours ago, xorbe said:

First yes the MCM5 is totally worth owning if you already have an MTen3.  And yeah the MTen3 feels like a rocket compared to the 16X off the line, the little wheel is so easy to command.

I went MTen3 -> 16X -> MCM5 -> TeslaV2

MTen3 - Very easy to roll suuuper slow.  I find it hard to carve, and 10" isn't resilient against choppy terrain, and it's hyper and squirrelly.

16X - Like you said, I was shocked about the weight, and how it felt like the weight was up high and hanging out front and back.  It's a nice wheel to ride once you get used to it.  But sometimes I still doubt my ability to swivel as quickly like my lesser wheels.  It lacks acceleration punch from a stop imho, have to work the wheel to hard.  The tire is more like 17.5" actually.

MCM5 - This is my go to wheel right now.  It fits in my car easy, it's "only" 37 pounds, it's stable enough to zip on a sure line in trail commuter traffic.  I find it a bit twitchy sometimes, but nothing like Mten3.  14" does feel a little small after riding the Tesla and 16X.  I love the MCM5 eggshell shape.

TeslaV2 - I really like this wheel, the only wheel I hopped on and immediately felt like I'd been riding it for months already.  Two things though, those side pads / boxy shape (I peeled the pads off), and its 42 pounds which to me feels amazingly much heavier than 37 for lugging into/out of the car.  So I wound up using the MCM5 regardless.  But the Tesla is a good ride and response characteristics.  I would kill for an eggshell shaped Tesla.

Personally, I'd like to know what the KS16S wheel is like as an all-purpose commuter wheel.  I'm not sure I'd recommend the MCM5 unless you are specifically looking for 14" of fun ... I think a 16" wheel is more versatile, Tesla, KS16S, V8F, etc.

KS16S is stellar in all regards except for top speed, which is why i didnt mention it.. the op mentioned 20 (im assuming mph) as being too slow on the mten3 which is only a couple mph less than the top speed of the 16S, so i didnt mention it.. if top speed isnt a priority it is extremely comfortable, convenient, compact and has amazing range

[Denny Paul]

On 12/11/2019 at 9:53 AM, mrelwood said:

All EUCs either accelerate as fast as you command them, or fail to do so and you crash. The speed of the acceleration is not what you are interested in, but how much effort it takes to accelerate.

You bring up some excellent points later, and I’m actually swayed now towards the Tesla more than I was before because of the versatility it would bring as a better all-rounder. Thanks!

But I want to pick apart what I quoted above. I’ll admit the ease of acceleration greatly adds to my enjoyment of the Mten3, but it’s also the rate/power of acceleration that I’m interested in too. There’s been a few times where I feel like I’m overpowering the little wheel from a standstill because the motor can’t deliver enough power to combat my initial aggressive toward tilt, and I have to either ease off immediately, or I’ll fall off. 
 

So that brings me to my next question, between the mcm5 or the tesla, which would be easier to overpower from a standstill? 

[Denny Paul]

On 12/11/2019 at 9:04 PM, Rywokast said:

KS16S is stellar in all regards except for top speed, which is why i didnt mention it.. the op mentioned 20 (im assuming mph) as being too slow on the mten3 which is only a couple mph less than the top speed of the 16S, so i didnt mention it..

You’re right in your assumptions. The 16s wouldn’t excite me because it wouldn’t bring any more speed than I’m currently capable off, though the other perks that it offers undoubtedly make it a great wheel for some. 
 

That said, I think the fastest I’m personally interested in cruising at would be about 25 mph. So any wheels that are capable of that catch my eye. Anything beyond just seems a bit extra, and I would likely take the car or motorcycle instead to get from A to B. And the stability that the 16” tesla would provide might be appreciated, but I’m a little worried it’ll make the unicycling experience feel a bit numb. Any insight to that? Or is it one of those things I gotta just find a way to try it before I buy?

[mrelwood]

 

7 hours ago, Denny Paul said:

And the stability that the 16” tesla would provide might be appreciated, but I’m a little worried it’ll make the unicycling experience feel a bit numb.

I think I know what you mean, I just don’t call it ”numb”. What the MSX did for me after the 16S is help me relax a lot more, and while it must be done sparingly, it has given me confidence to look around. Not just scan the road in front of me all the time, but to look where I am, even glimpse at the view. The MSX is amazing at surprise bumps, my stability hasn’t impared the slightest despite riding through deep potholes, and once even off the road. The MSX just climbed back.

While the lesser feeling of danger and excitement with a larger wheel might feel numb at first...

7 hours ago, Denny Paul said:

Anything beyond just seems a bit extra, and I would likely take the car or motorcycle instead to get from A to B

... this actually might change. A larger wheel is much more of a vehicle. A trip to a shop 30km away is now just a fun excuse to ride.

While I’m talking about going from 16” to an 18”, the step from 10” or 14” to 16” should be quite similiar, just located at a different part of the spectrum.

[xorbe]

10 hours ago, Denny Paul said:

That said, I think the fastest I’m personally interested in cruising at would be about 25 mph. So any wheels that are capable of that catch my eye. Anything beyond just seems a bit extra, and I would likely take the car or motorcycle instead to get from A to B. And the stability that the 16” tesla would provide might be appreciated, but I’m a little worried it’ll make the unicycling experience feel a bit numb. Any insight to that? Or is it one of those things I gotta just find a way to try it before I buy?

I'm the same way ... I like to ride the euc for an hour, maybe 90 minutes.  But if it's farther than that, I'm on the motorcycle.

The MCM5 is an amazing wheel, but I'd give thumbs up to the Tesla as a primary wheel first, if you're going to cover several miles at a time.  (My last mile commute is less than 2, this feeds into why I use the smaller MCM5.)

You can't defy physics.  Bigger wheels aren't going to feel like the MTen3.  On the flip side, the MCM5 and Tesla don't feel like the inertially sluggish 16X.  The MCM5 is quite a lively wheel.  The Tesla reels that in a bit, in a pleasant manner.  The Tesla doesn't impart that "holy shit this is a heavy wheel" feeling while riding.  Actually sometimes I wonder what the MCM5 would feel like if its weight was riding a bit higher to slow down its side to side agility just a little ... but then it would probably lose the nice eggshell shape.

You ride motorcycles, you know how it is.  You get that bike with more power and upscale suspension, but the extra weight and beefier tires zap the some of the fun of a smaller lighter weight 300cc machine.

Edited December 13, 2019 by xorbe

[Rywokast]

11 hours ago, Denny Paul said:

You’re right in your assumptions. The 16s wouldn’t excite me because it wouldn’t bring any more speed than I’m currently capable off, though the other perks that it offers undoubtedly make it a great wheel for some. 
 

That said, I think the fastest I’m personally interested in cruising at would be about 25 mph. So any wheels that are capable of that catch my eye. Anything beyond just seems a bit extra, and I would likely take the car or motorcycle instead to get from A to B. And the stability that the 16” tesla would provide might be appreciated, but I’m a little worried it’ll make the unicycling experience feel a bit numb. Any insight to that? Or is it one of those things I gotta just find a way to try it before I buy?

a regular 16" wheel is definitely not enough to make it feel numb, you would likely need an 18x3 minimum for that, im just meaning at speeds if you hit something you will have more of a chance of coming out with your skin in tact, but believe me it wont just coast over anything and be boring.. regular 16" wheels are very small and sprightly if you ask me, very quick to start and stop and you can bounce and toss them around like nothing once you get used to it, its not like a 16X or nikola at all trust me i find them quite boring relatively as well.. my 18XL being right on the precipice where its still very nimble and super fun to ride but at the same time you can choose to relax and take it easy, take in the sights and it is definitely stable enough to the point that you dont have to glue your eyes to the road the entire time, its my favourite wheel, but not my most used due to its size and weight.. the difference between 14 and 16 inch wheels honestly isnt significant, it is mainly when youre going slow speeds that the 14" wheels shine because you can go walking speed much easier, you can turn basically from a stop and on a dime, you can throw it across a room so hopping on and off and carrying it around is a breeze, they are more for riding downtown at slow speeds lol, not many people want to take a 14" on the road and definitely not as a primary EUC if youre serious about it.. 16" is the one that breaks into the class of being truly versatile, not specializing in anything but being good at everything it is what you want if you love to ride but only want one serious EUC, because for me personally i dont like taking the 18" wheels into stores, they suck to carry, and they look very intimidating to other people so they are better reserved for long trips, fast rides, on road (or off road xD).. its not to say you cant ride any wheel anywhere, i do.. i love them but a 14" will hold you back

Edited December 13, 2019 by Rywokast

[Denny Paul]

With all the advice from this thread, I think I’ll be making a Tesla my next wheel. Thanks everyone for the insights!