Cloud Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 i was reporting overheating tiltback for the 3 months that ive owned the wheel whenever i accelerated/ braked a lot and rode aggressively in general, the temperature would rise to 70 C in 5 to 15 minutes and i would get a tilt back.Well, guess what, no more!!! I am baffled. Here is what happened. Because my tire went flat 4 times already - i had to open up the wheel and replace it. The two times i replaced the tire didnt make any difference, but after the 3rd time i rode today very aggressively and there was no overheating!!! I checked the temperature in the app and it was rising a bit after acceleration but only slowly and not like before. I tried to get the wheel to overheat by riding super aggressive but wasnt able to! When i had opened the wheel i may have moved some wires, i might have disconnected something by accident...not sure what else.. I unscrewed The control board so many times that the screws became loose and it wasnt sitting tight any more.... I dont know what else changed but its a fact that the reported temp is the app is much lower now.can someone explain what may have happened? Maybe i disconnected the sensor? Or move it away from the hottest part or something?I am hoping that the reported temp. Is the correct temperature and the wheel is really not overheating and not just reporting lower temp than it actually is. Can the experts shed some light?thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Just a silly thought but what pressure do you put in the tyre?If you're just using a bicycle pump and not measuring it you may have increased the pressure and reduced the rolling resistance and if your pressures were previously low it could explain both the frequent punctures and the overheating due to rolling resistance which increases considerably with low pressures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisxr2 Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Glad you got it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Since the temperature is changing (less than before but changing and showing ?sane? numbers) you definitely did not disconnect the temperature sensor.If the sensor was measuring the temperature at the MOSFETS (main pcb) there should be no way to get it removed by accident - at least you would see that something happened.If the sensor is in the motor the behavioural change should have nothing to do anything with your tire changes. (I assume you did not open the motor... )So you maybe eliminated something that caused quite some friction - but i assume you would have noticed that. At least it should have been quite noisy before the change.With the rolling resistance, which Gimlet wrote about: You should have noticed quite a difference in the riding behaviour. If you drove with too much pressure and had parts of the cover touching the (too big in because of the pressure) tire, you should have noticed this again (noise).So, if the riding behaviour and/or noise of the wheel did not really change after your tube exchanges i would assume as solution, that you somehow managed to give your mosfets the right cooling. Could you have removed something that blocked the airstream to/from the heatsink?What was the maximum temperature shown after your super aggressive riding test?You could also check the temperature of the heatsink after a super aggressive riding test with your fingers (carefully!) or something like a meat thermometer - if you can't really touch it without getting burnt your wheel has a problem . If the heatsink is just (very) hot it should be ok. Don't know if touching the outside of the motor chassis could give any clue about the coil temperatures?... or you are just happy about the change and have fun riding - and look from time to time if the EUC develops some bad smell or starts smoking ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Just a silly thought but what pressure do you put in the tyre?If you're just using a bicycle pump and not measuring it you may have increased the pressure and reduced the rolling resistance and if your pressures were previously low it could explain both the frequent punctures and the overheating due to rolling resistance which increases considerably with low pressures.i put approx 50 psi. No this cannot have directly to do with the tire pressure. I used to have less and had tiltbacks. I started putting 50 and still had tiltbacks. Yesterday i also had about 50 and the behavior was totally different. I dont use hand pump, i used electric pump and it has a gauge on it. Cannot be rolling resistance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Since the temperature is changing (less than before but changing and showing ?sane? numbers) you definitely did not disconnect the temperature sensor.If the sensor was measuring the temperature at the MOSFETS (main pcb) there should be no way to get it removed by accident - at least you would see that something happened.If the sensor is in the motor the behavioural change should have nothing to do anything with your tire changes. (I assume you did not open the motor... )So you maybe eliminated something that caused quite some friction - but i assume you would have noticed that. At least it should have been quite noisy before the change.With the rolling resistance, which Gimlet wrote about: You should have noticed quite a difference in the riding behaviour. If you drove with too much pressure and had parts of the cover touching the (too big in because of the pressure) tire, you should have noticed this again (noise).So, if the riding behaviour and/or noise of the wheel did not really change after your tube exchanges i would assume as solution, that you somehow managed to give your mosfets the right cooling. Could you have removed something that blocked the airstream to/from the heatsink?What was the maximum temperature shown after your super aggressive riding test?You could also check the temperature of the heatsink after a super aggressive riding test with your fingers (carefully!) or something like a meat thermometer - if you can't really touch it without getting burnt your wheel has a problem . If the heatsink is just (very) hot it should be ok. Don't know if touching the outside of the motor chassis could give any clue about the coil temperatures?... or you are just happy about the change and have fun riding - and look from time to time if the EUC develops some bad smell or starts smoking ...it is showing sane numbers like 51, 52 etc..no matter how aggressive i ride, it only rises by a degree or two..i didnt open the motor, but i thought the sensor is somewhere on the control board?? When i replaced the tire i woukd normally open up and lift one half of the casing and leave the half on the side of the motor connection in place ( although the wheel did move around quite a bit on the other side two, as the pedals were unscrewed on both sides and loose in relation to the casing, it is possible that i eliminated some friction but i didnt notice any friction before, at least no sound or physical resistance. Where is the heat sing located? Not sure how i provided more airflow to it. I did notice one small black wire that was not connected at the control. Oard but i am not sure if it was connected before. The temperatures after the aggressive driving test were not raising above 52-53-54. Perhaps more if i rode longer, not sure. (The tire went flat before i coukd do mire tests. )I then did a test of standing in one spot on a slope and got the temp rising to 61 much mire slowly than before, i assumed it would keep rising and stopped the test. I can try touching the motor to gauge the temp but i thought the temperature is measured on the control board? I did mive a coupke of wires around just to be able to close the covers. Etter but didnt notice any drastic change i may have made. This is so mysterious....but if now is how the wheel is supposed to operate then i woukd venture to say that kingsong doesnt really have an issue with overheating - i tried to ride real aggressive and couldnt get it to overheat.... When i opened the wheel i often had to pull on the wires and even trying to open the casing, the casing pulled on the wires internally and the motor connections that i couldnt see as they were inside. The wires on the control board were also pulled on trying to separate pieces and move them around. It is very possible that something got disconnected. But i do get a temperature reading and it is rising when supposed to rise so i am totally perplexed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 Id like to know where the sensor is and what it looks like. It s possible that that one loose small black wire on the board is the sensor? The wire is connected on one end. BUt not the other. Maybe i moved the other end away from the board and its not measuring the right temp? Or maybe now it is measuring the right temp?? See attached pics of both ends of the black wire i am talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 The one of the black wire on the first picture is somewhere in this white spot (of thermal compound)? You write it is connected? This I cannot identify on the pic - it just seems to end in this blob...So this could really be the temperature sensor sitting on the heatsink.The other end of the cable is on the second picture going nowhere (and looking nicely cut)? There would be a connector (the white one) nearby. Are there free "spots" at this connector? Maybe with the remains of the black cable inside? Or is there a solder point on the PCB with the remains of the cable?The temperature readings you mentioned above are °C? When you start the wheel up, it shows the ambient temperature?Then 50 to 60°C after aggressive operation seems quite normal.So, if this black cable going nowhere at one end is a temperature sensor and you get sane readings of temperature shown you have at least two sensors... one for the app and a second one for whatever, since the temperature readings when you had shutdowns where higher (around 70)?Or maybe the second one was for the thermal shutdown... The heatsink is the metal (Alu?) plate below the PCB where the MOSFETS are screwed onto. There should be some openings so that air can flow by this. Or some cooling fins extending from this plate are at a place with airflow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 22, 2015 Author Share Posted October 22, 2015 The one of the black wire on the first picture is somewhere in this white spot (of thermal compound)? You write it is connected? This I cannot identify on the pic - it just seems to end in this blob...So this could really be the temperature sensor sitting on the heatsink.The other end of the cable is on the second picture going nowhere (and looking nicely cut)? There would be a connector (the white one) nearby. Are there free "spots" at this connector? Maybe with the remains of the black cable inside? Or is there a solder point on the PCB with the remains of the cable?The temperature readings you mentioned above are °C? When you start the wheel up, it shows the ambient temperature?Then 50 to 60°C after aggressive operation seems quite normal.So, if this black cable going nowhere at one end is a temperature sensor and you get sane readings of temperature shown you have at least two sensors... one for the app and a second one for whatever, since the temperature readings when you had shutdowns where higher (around 70)?Or maybe the second one was for the thermal shutdown... The heatsink is the metal (Alu?) plate below the PCB where the MOSFETS are screwed onto. There should be some openings so that air can flow by this. Or some cooling fins extending from this plate are at a place with airflow?the black wire in first picture ends up in the white spot. Yes there is some kind of compound there. Yes it is connected and covered wit the white stuff . The ither end of this wire is in the second picture and its loose, not connected. I dont know if its cut or torn, and yes there is a connector nearby and i thought maybe it got detached from that connectir but there are no empty slots- they are taken by other wires. But its possibke that maybe mire than 1 wire are supposed to go into these slots. I coukd nit find the remaining portion of the black cable anywhere. I am thinking that maybe the loose end of the cable IS the sensor? Maybe it is supposed to be attached to the hottest part and since its disconnected its only reading the temperature away from the hottest part? How are the actual shut downs initiated? Upon the reading from the temp. sensor or some other redundant way? Temp. Is in C. I didnt check the temp when i started the wheel, i can chck today. the ambient is definitely lower than 50. I couldnt even make the temperature go to 60 with aggressive riding. I was only able to get to 60 when i was standing still on a slope,. Two sensors? I doubt it, then the application wouldnt know which sensor reading to show, i believe there should be one. Unless there is logic to tell the app which sensor to read, but i doubt it? I didnt see specific ventilation openings but i did see a metal plate on the bottom of the compartment ( visible from below, where the wheel chamber is). I didnt see any fins. I still have no idea what happened. I am sure glad the overheating is no longer an issue, hope it doesnt come back, but i just hope that i am ready the real temp and would like to figure out what was wrong before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 It theoretically could be, that more than one wire goes into a connector slot. But i would guess, that the cable was soldered somewhere at the PCB - maybe the backside? Could be you find a solder blob with the remains of the cable. If the "open/cut/torn" end of the wire would be the sensor, you should see it. If it's just the end of a cable with the insulation arount its no sensor but a wire. Could be that this wire is not for a sensor at all, but only the grounding of the heatsink plate? But would be strange to go once around the PCB with it. In you want to spend time you could actively search for the attachmend point of the open end of the wire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Well, it does look like a regular wire..but what is the sensor? I believe sometimes the sensing element could resemble a wire. But probably wouldnt have insulation around it then. So most likely its not the sensor. I will try to find a picture of the board and try to figure out where the wire should go. But if someone opens up their kingsong, maybe you guys can tell me what you see and if the wire is supposed to be loose. It does seem to be accurately cut and not broken away from the soldered point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 if someone opens up their kingsong, maybe you guys can tell me what you see and if the wire is supposed to be loose. It does seem to be accurately cut and not broken away from the soldered point.That's the BT antenna. Perfectly normal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 25, 2015 Author Share Posted October 25, 2015 That's the BT antenna. Perfectly normal... @Jason McNeil thank you very much, i should have figured it out but i didnt. I am not worried now that its loosei still dont know why the wheel stopped overheating and if there was something wrong with it before or what is happening now is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted October 31, 2015 Author Share Posted October 31, 2015 I know this is gonna sound like i am insane, but its true. After i took the wheel apart again and back together ( because i had to replace the tire) the overheating tiltbacks came back. There must have been something i moved around before when i opened the wheel up that made the difference but things have come back to usual now,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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