New Mini-Pro 320 - appear to have 50% or less of stated range

[Invader Zog]

I live fairly close to my work (.6 miles) and had the unfortunate experience of having my MiniPro run out of juice on me on the way back home on a Friday (which apparently translates to a hard/sudden stop which threw me from the vehicle -- fortunately I didn't face plant). This meant that it ran out of juice after ~6 miles.

I inflated the air in my tires to 45 in case they were low and took note of the "remaining mileage" report on the app before/after each leg. Extrapolating these results gives ~7 miles (which is a bit higher than I experienced but regardless is way under the expected capacity).

My Mini-Pro is <6 months old so the battery is still covered by warranty, but it sounds like I'd need to ship the entire device to them (at my expense) for this to be looked at.

My mini-pro is on firmware 1.0.1. I'm not sure if the later firmware updates will negatively impact my riding experience and I'd hate to see this messed with. I'm using a stock charger.

I'm not thrilled about the idea of trying to pack up the entire unit (I don't have the original boxes anymore) and am not sure how much it would cost, but I suspect packaging it up safely and shipping it will be a pretty penny.

Is it possible to "prove" to them that the battery has a problem without going through this process? 

Has anyone else been through this w/ battery issues and have any insights on the resolution?

How long did you not have your device while it was being worked on?

I don't like the idea of my device being defective or having 1/2 the capacity it should.. but if it isn't going to get any worse than this, I can probably live w/ charging the device 2X per week instead of 1X per week... (although it sounds like I should be charging it 1X per 2 weeks)...

Ride	Distance	Start Remaining	End Remaining	Decremented	Total Traveled
1	0.6	15.1	13.6	1.5	0.6
2	0.6	14.1	12.7	1.4	1.2
3	0.6	12.6	10.9	1.7	1.8
4	0.6	11.5	10	1.5	2.4
Total miles traveled		2.4
Total consumed		5.1
Ratio		2.125
Max actual capacity		7.105882353

 

 

 

[RooEUC]

What was the ambient temperature you were riding in?

 

EDIT:  Never mind, I see you're in LA so it's not a cold weather issue.  Where I am it has been sub zero for months and riding in that yields shorter range.

[Invader Zog]

1 hour ago, RooMiniPro said:

What was the ambient temperature you were riding in?

 

EDIT:  Never mind, I see you're in LA so it's not a cold weather issue.  Where I am it has been sub zero for months and riding in that yields shorter range.

It's been cooler than normal, but its mostly been driven in the 50s to 70s (fahrenheit)

[mrelwood]

This sounds like a case of announced max range vs real-life range.

The way one rides can shorten the range to a half. The announced range numbers are always under unrealistically optimal conditions, so the real range is somewhere around 50% of that, depending on how much you weigh, how and where you ride etc.

What I don’t understand is how it was able to throw you off? The MiniPro is overly cautious when the battery gets lower, and it should have slowed you down long before the battery actually ran out. And when it slows you down you also know to ride more carefully since the vehicle can no longer accelerate, climb hills or survive potholes nearly as well as with a full battery.

[Invader Zog]

I ride at full speed on a flat sidewalk. I was under the impression from the forum that the actual ride ranges were fairly lined up with the predicted (at least it seemed that way from reading through some of the other discussions on the battery).

If it really is the case that I should only expect to get ~6 miles on the 320 battery, then I can accept that. My primary concern is that there is a problem with my device and that my window of opportunity to have it resolved will close soon (due to the 6 month battery warranty).

With respect to getting thrown, I have the original firmware v1.0.1. Perhaps they adjusted the "runs out of juice" behavior later. I knew I was low on battery and the max speed was substantially reduced, but when it apparently hit zero, it didn't slow to a stop... it hard stopped (~5mph->0mph boom).

[Invader Zog]

Sorry - I should have mentioned -- I'm 155lbs

[mrelwood]

I might’ve been wrong though. I don’t remember what kind of ranges others get with the MiniPro. Mine stops at 6.5-8 miles. But I’m 200 lbs, I have knobby tires on the MiniPro, and have so far only ridden mostly on snow. All these are quite taxing for mileage. For your weight 6 miles is very little, so it seems your battery indeed has a reduced capacity.

And getting thrown when the battery gets to zero does sound like an excessive voltage drop, which a faulty battery would explain.

Have you checked the battery voltage or % from the app after charging to full?

[trevmar]

Alexander and Alexei have written an app that will allow you to detect a faulty cell in your battery. Run the app and record the output when fully charged, and when discharged >50% and it will be able to give you a pretty good idea if any cells are looking weak

 

[Invader Zog]

17 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Have you checked the battery voltage or % from the app after charging to full?

Thanks (trevmar and mrewlwood). I didn't even realize I could see battery details in the app.

It sounds like the NINEbattery app will have more details so I will pursue that. 

I run IOS, but I have a Kindle Fire and should hopefully be able to get the NINEbattery up installed. 

I'll report back once I get that sorted and have some data.

 

 

[jojo33]

On 3/13/2019 at 7:37 PM, Invader Zog said:

I'm not thrilled about the idea of trying to pack up the entire unit

Hello

I suggest you

1- Open ticket now with Segway USA, not wait, segway usa or europe take a long time before answer, better is get an open ticket at a date corresponding to your warranty period  (if you bought it with amazon, open a ticket too)

here @denzil experience with europe segway customer support , 

 

2 - use an app screenrecorder (exemple AZ) and lauch it before launch Ninebot app, record your navigation to your parameters about battery, begin a ride full charged, let record following all during your ride, and check at the end a full ride , at new, the screen with battery level state, keep each screen many seconds to record between each screen of the app

3- check your battery health wth Alexei App Ninebattery it's a good tool ! (with android device autorize unknow source app installation)

4

On 3/14/2019 at 6:26 PM, Invader Zog said:

original firmware v1.0.1.

never heard about a V101 firmware....iits seems its very old, V1.0.3 7/11/2015, V1.1.1 21/11/2015,  and after it's the V1.1.7...

Im not sure these is Firmware version or it's for your BMS firmware version ? 

Better upadate last 

On 3/14/2019 at 7:33 PM, Invader Zog said:

I'm 155lbs

Good weight, best for a long mileage, 30KM= 18,6 miles for your Mini Pro, generally removes 4 miles for a "real mileage", around 14 miles at high speed or cruising speed

what consumes the battery is:
irregular driving: too much acceleration, too much deceleration
too much tiltback consumes battery
too many obstacles, sidewalks, bumps,
temperatures

if you use it every day you have to charge it every day

I say that because I had the case of a person who did not understand that the battery was decreasing and that it had to be charged often, when for example there are only two bars on the screen, it must be loaded

 

[jojo33]

This winter, how long your MINI has remained without being charged?
How many times a day do you use it?

[Invader Zog]

Since it arrived from Ninebot, it has been used on average 4 days a week (2x/day). I usually charge it once/week.

 

[Invader Zog]

I was unable to get the NINEBattery app working because a Kindle Fire apparently isn't compatible w/ the app (guessing too old an Android version).

Here is the information from the battery info of Ninebot app.

This is from fully charged:

• Remaining percentage: 81%
• Remaining power: 4643maH
• Battery status: normal
• Voltage: 59.24V
• Current: .01A
• Wattage: .59W
• Temp: 75.2F
• Total capacity: 57000 mAH
• BMS Firmware v1.0.3

I recall reading on the battery thread that it seemed like Ninebot was deliberately only charging to 80% - presumably to keep the battery lasting longer so I *assume* that this is not a problem.

[mrelwood]

I charged my MiniPro yesterday and it now shows 100%, 62.40V, 5740mAh remaining. If yours only charges to 80%, something is wrong.

Do you tend to let the balance charge finish on the batteries? Meaning, do you leave the charger connected after the light has turned green?

[Invader Zog]

On 3/15/2019 at 12:56 PM, jojo33 said:

Hello

I suggest you

1- Open ticket now with Segway USA, not wait, segway usa or europe take a long time before answer, better is get an open ticket at a date corresponding to your warranty period  (if you bought it with amazon, open a ticket too)

2 - use an app screenrecorder (exemple AZ) and lauch it before launch Ninebot app, record your navigation to your parameters about battery, begin a ride full charged, let record following all during your ride, and check at the end a full ride , at new, the screen with battery level state, keep each screen many seconds to record between each screen of the app

3- check your battery health wth Alexei App Ninebattery it's a good tool ! (with android device autorize unknow source app installation)

4 never heard about a V101 firmware....iits seems its very old, V1.0.3 7/11/2015, V1.1.1 21/11/2015,  and after it's the V1.1.7...

I am talking to Segway USA. I took a bunch of photos from the ninebot app before/after rides (this is where my original table of usage info came from). 

Apologies! I wrote that wrong. I am running v1.1.1. I really don't want to change that because it sounds like newer versions punish your max speed each time it engages tilt back. 

 

On 3/15/2019 at 12:56 PM, jojo33 said:

if you use it every day you have to charge it every day

I say that because I had the case of a person who did not understand that the battery was decreasing and that it had to be charged often, when for example there are only two bars on the screen, it must be loaded

If necessary, I would do so, but if I drive 1.2 to 1.3 miles/day and the capacity is >10, I should be able to run multiple days without issue. I am aware that the speed slots down once the battery hits 50% (a shame that isn't user configurable).

[Invader Zog]

On 3/17/2019 at 4:27 AM, mrelwood said:

I charged my MiniPro yesterday and it now shows 100%, 62.40V, 5740mAh remaining. If yours only charges to 80%, something is wrong.

Do you tend to let the balance charge finish on the batteries? Meaning, do you leave the charger connected after the light has turned green?

I thought that was after a full overnight charging, but I will charge it again tonight and verify in the AM. I thought I had read that Segway/Ninebot chargers only went to 80% and that this was "by design" .... 

 

[mrelwood]

7 hours ago, Invader Zog said:

I thought I had read that Segway/Ninebot chargers only went to 80% and that this was "by design"

Percentage is not voltage, so 80% and 100% can be the same voltage. If the battery cells are charged to 4.0V, some apps might consider it to be 80%. But if the 4.0V is the designed maximum, it will be shown as 100% in the official app. Some other app might still show the same voltage as 80%.

Unless you remember more details, the phrase ”Ninebot chargers only goes to 80%” does not mean anything.

[jojo33]

17 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Ninebot chargers only goes to 80%” does not mean anything

There's a particularity for US charger for Ninebot Mini Pro US, it's true, it only have 80% in a full charge, i will see where this topic was posted...

really i dont remember when  

Why not to buy another charger @Invader Zog or someone around in L.A for lend you one ? just try another charger...

[jojo33]

On 3/16/2019 at 7:59 PM, Invader Zog said:

Ninebot was deliberately only charging to 80%

yes indeed, I remember that it appeared in discussions only in the USA, it touched a series of chargers, members ordered chargers on Aliexpress or More4mini, ....it was a long time ago 

[jojo33]

 

[Invader Zog]

I checked again after an overnight charge and the numbers were pretty much the same that I previously posted (82%, 59.29v, 4678mah).

my original charger broke early on (physical/pins) and I am using a replacement from Ninebot USA.

It sounds like my experience/performance is substantially less than what others are experiencing so I guess I will be trying to figure out how to pack it up (didn’t keep the box) and hope they don’t mess with my firmware. I’m getting the feeling it is going to be gone for well over a month.

[mrelwood]

Reading on the ”80% chargers”, @Invader Zog have you checked what is the output voltage stamped on your charger?

The range is short even for a 59V charger, but if your charger is 63V, it is very likely that you have a one dead pair of battery cells.

[Invader Zog]

It is a 59.5V charger.

After chatting w/ NineBot USA, I'm going to hold off on sending it in for a number of weeks as they have an unusually high volume of repairs. I will report back on this thread w/ the ultimate results.

[trevmar]

They suggest you 'hold off' on a repair for a number of weeks??? Did they offer you your money back??

[Invader Zog]

No -- when I spoke w/ them I asked them how long to expect from when I sent back my MiniPro and when I got it back. They let me know that they had an unusually long repair queue right now and that if I sent it now, I might be waiting a few more weeks than I normally would. 

The issue isn't urgent for me as I only drive <1.5 miles per day on the device and I can live longer with more frequent charging in the interim (as long as it eventually gets resolved)

In theory they are supposed to reach out to me when the queue size drops, but I was planning on checking in a few weeks.