Flygonial

Right, it definitely can be situational (especially with your way of life), though to my understanding most of what you're referring to in the thread topic is in the context of street riding. I'm not entirely convinced that higher pressure is necessarily a big difference-maker in terms of safety barring the edge cases (in which case I've pointed out arguments for both sides), but what I definitely do agree on is that getting accustomed to a higher pressure often seems to makes for a better rider, which is absolutely a safety factor. You develop a better sense of connection to your wheel and are given less leeway for bad habits such as zombie riding. Many of the less skilled riders I've seen are probably capable of becoming better but developed bad habits early on and rely on big, heavy, and stable wheels running at most moderate pressures to keep themselves upright. I'm not so positive if going "over-pressure" on your car is necessarily the best approach, that being said. Anything one-to-two wheeled is gonna have a rounded profile by default, but the square profiles on car tires supposedly wear unevenly when overinflated?

Local rider found this out first hand (though with no bad ending). Shinko 244 on EX30 (so a bit less street grip already), 47 psi, and race mode all led to him breaking traction during hard, low-speed acceleration. I'd imagine if anybody would know about loss in grip though it'd be racers, what settings do they typically run on the track? Of course, in real-world riding you generally don't need to push the limits of your wheel's grip and many riders are quite concerned about dented rims. There could be an argument to be made that having more trust in your wheel to keep traction when suddenly carving and making evasive maneuvers is valuable. That being said, there not only needs to be a certain skill threshold (which involves a decent amount of time and/or risk to develop) to really make use of this, but it can be argued that with conservative/defensive riding these situations are very rare. Perhaps more relevant is with forms of braking assist becoming more common (first on the V13, and then Begode's race modes), the limits of a wheel's braking torque are more accessible than ever. I've heard accounts of people (presumably with a given weight/pressure/height) being able to break traction when braking on the Master, which I feel is a more relevant safety concern. Tire selection/pressure may actually become a real concern beyond "whatever you feel like" for emergency braking when enough wheels capable of braking to the limits of traction are commonplace.

I’ve always stuck with hand mirrors but those are genuinely quite nice. At higher speeds it saves you from raising an arm which with the wind resistance can feel a bit off putting even if it’s not as much as putting your arm straight out.

Invasive boars in Texas have ended up even on trails in metro areas. There’s this stretch through the end of Terry Hershey where boars and deers can get spooked and run in front of the trail at night. The trail is all but deserted at night, so a friend got comfortable doing 30 down it and had no time to react when a boar came up. Whenever we take that route again, we try to stay below 20 mph and at one point I came within yards of striking a boar. I would have probably struck it were I going faster. I’d say we should stop taking that trail but it’s the only real alternative on that route to not riding roads that sometimes go up to 45.

Necro’ing this thread but I used to use the shirt you’ve listed in the OP until it got torn up recently in a cut-out. It certainly works and having shoulder pads is nice, but is going to be inferior to a motorcycle jacket in terms of abrasion resistance and impact protection. It’s CE level 1 which is already great over no rating, the integrated back protector has a rated pad and an extra velcro piece that extends up to get almost full back coverage. Downside is these pads aren’t a super standard form factor and may not be upgradable. What happened in my crash was I ended up doing a protracted somersault where after bouncing off my knees and arms I ground along the tarmac with the back of my helmet and a shoulder. The shirt definitely saved me from much more severe road rash over my shoulder, but the neck seam tore a bit and the retaining cloth over the pad tore up to the point where I’d no longer be as confident in it holding up. It certainly did its job and I’m satisfied in that I couldn’t have really expected better, but because the shirt isn’t rigid by design the pad slipped enough to give me road rash. It certainly was a big plus for 35C+ weather and all, just wanted to share my experiences and some caveats.

The only real feature I can see coming from that is being able to run a smaller charger, or maybe affordability with having two grades of battery pack. These are marginal at best and I do also think it would be very little gain for something that also introduces more potential for engineering oversights and problems.

Oh, well I have an S22 that isn’t the Pro version. It’s not that it isn’t worth it, it’s the potential for an early S22 to come with an unpinned motor that is seriously problematic. An unpinned original motor is prone to have its stator (where the magnets are) slip out of alignment and eventually tug on the wires enough to cause a cut-out. The S22 Pro controller is the same if not possibly worse than an earlier (not very first batch) one (as you may see 125V MOSFETs instead of 150V), and to be honest is part of the reason the S22 Pro is disappointing: the controller is a bottleneck to the true performance of the motor. The Pro motor is still an upgrade but unless you’re super into climbing extreme slopes and landing jumps, it’s a minor difference and only affects range slightly in practice (Pro motor is slightly more efficient). I bought my wheel from Eevees as they offered a motor swap to a pinned motor, and am still quite happy with the wheel overall. It may be possible to read off the motherboard of the wheel (especially if they haven’t updated it since leaving the factory) to deduce which batch it might be a part of (late 2022-ish I believe you start seeing pinned motors) but I’m not the best versed in advice if you choose to go this route.

Even if they offer a decent warranty on parts and repairs (I doubt they would offer to pin or replace unpinned motors but fingers crossed), and even if 3k CAD is a good price, I’d still say no. If you bought an S22 Pro motor and sliders separately, you’d end up overrunning the cost of just buying from EUC Deals ($2600). Not sure how you’d make it work, maybe driving it back through the border from a P.O. Box (not sure how willing they are to ship across the border)?

The current is the most likely part, but evidently I exceeded those limits too quickly to get warned . I have my first stage alarms on DarknessBot at 45~ A, so I blew right past that crazy quickly which is the scary part. It still is my fault at the end of the day and these are band-aid fixes, but going back to using front pads and turning down all my alarms for safety thresholds are things I'm considering. It's the same philosophy as controlling weight by just getting rid of all the tempting shit in your cupboard . I know I've reached my cut-out speed without even exceeding 72% PWM, so oh well. I do love that the Patton has PWM-based tiltback and it's something that I really feel should be standard on any mid-high speed wheel. More robust/consistent board designs, always ensuring a lot of headroom on batteries, and redundant hall sensors would be my other hope-to-see become industry standard, but it's probably too much to ask for at this stage. People wouldn't want to pay for Samsung 50S until the price goes down, people don't like compromising capacity for Molicel or 40T. Seems like 50S is mostly picking up in esk8 where the battery capacities can be lower thanks to rolling resistance and generally higher current demands, but at the end of the day I already knew the S22 wasn't perfect when buying it. Still have had loads of fun with it and just need to be ever more respectful of its limits as long as I still have it.

Sorry to necro this thread but I didn't want to make a whole new topic and thought many aspects of my experience are relevant to what @Rawnei experienced several months back in addition to just wanting to share. My S22 crash was slower at 61.1 km/h and it goes to show just how important discipline is when accelerating at higher speeds. Logs showed a max of 91% PWM which I have exceeded before without cut-out but the most glaring red flag was a 58.16A current spike (at 6235W, about 70% battery with sag included at that time). I had 80% PWM alarms (which were going to be delayed through Bluetooth), obviously no tiltback at that speed as there's nothing dynamic in the firmware and I ended up powering through all the alarms too quickly to notice anything. I didn't even think I overpowered it at first because of how I fell but given that that stretch of road was exceptionally smooth and flat for Houston it's the most likely outcome. Pressured to keep up with my friends, I accelerated after we crossed a light without realizing how fast I was already going. It felt like I'd slipped over something with the way the overpower felt because I was changing lanes right at that moment and I was sliding across the pavement before I'd even processed what had happened. Since it happened so fast, the details were definitely a bit hazy but I do know that my pads dragged my wheel with me for the first portion of the slide, my knees most likely took the impact (Leatts once again leaving my legs practically unscathed. The short contact time I had with my already slightly torn fabric shorts was enough to completely shred them apart on the left (though without a scratch on my thigh, I assume my wallet and phone basically acted as my pad . They did get completely torn free and I had to collect them from the road while apologizing to a small pile-up that happened, definitely a weakness of me just using exercise zipper shorts to hold my stuff. After this initial contact, I ended up tumbling forward and sliding on the back of my helmet and shoulder pads, though with the speed of the crash and what might have been a bit of pop from the initial hit, it felt semi-weightless with all the momentum that I had. I ground on that part for at least a full second before getting dropped off so my helmet could have saved my life at at very worst saved me from severe abrasion and a much more serious injury. It definitely didn't eat most of the impact (thankfully, as it's a TSG Pass I brought because I thought we'd be riding slower trails that day and we ended up on the street) and I feel very mild neck discomfort the day after at worst. My armored shirt (Leatt) was obviously torn up a bit at the pad holder but more interestingly came apart at the neck seam a bit, which moved the pad out of place and left me with two patches of road rash on my shoulders. I'm just thankful I had a pad there in the first place and am not complaining, I bought that bit of gear knowing it was a compromise on abrasion resistance vs. a jacket just because the summer heat here is so crazy. Wheel needs to be torn down but seems to still function, things like the swingarm guard @Rawneidesigned definitely took some impact (though there were still some scratches after the bumper got knocked off, it's obvious they did their job), everywhere else seems to have been impacted on a pad/seat/bumper except for the pedals which is expected of course. This is the pad setup I had on the wheel at the time and nothing except the pedals which are there to take the punishment got more than a bit scratched. I've been experimenting with knob-style pads inspired by what the people at Powerknobz have been doing (not planning on releasing them because they're too derivative and don't want to step on their toes) and they have certainly let me access torque without leaning forward as much. With just a bend forward at the ankles and a more moderate bend at the hips (with knees heavily bent forward), you can get pretty much the same input as a moderate banana lean with front pads installed. When I've been test riding with these on my own, I've tended to go without a backpack and probably at more like 190 lbs instead of 200 lbs geared like I was when I crashed, so that probably made a difference to how hard I felt I could push. I did feel a little bit tired from some leg training that day too, and though I didn't crash from acutely losing control of the wheel I suppose that might have contributed to not having the best control over my own inputs. Of course, these weren't the culprit as any overlean is user error, but it goes to show that this pad style demands more discipline than a moderately aggressive pad setup. Definitely will be taking it slower from here, though I know that constant reminders would be necessary for me to stay disciplined with my acceleration as it's not impossible for me to slip back into complacency. My rider friends on the other hand have just been telling me to get an EX30 .

Sadly have to agree in general. I hoped for removable pads but not like how we see it here (where it’s all molded into the same piece as the wire cover). Interesting that they used a little connector PCB to accommodate for all the outgoing light and speaker wires, which would be nice if the wheel runs without them (except for the fact the cover can’t be divorced from the pads without literally cutting it and probably doing some involved gap filling with sheet plastic, bonder, and possibly a sanding and repaint). The whole thing, dare I say, looks toy-grade. One of the few advantages the S22 had was having a relatively fast motor drop out and now there are a bunch of extra steps. We might be on the back burner for now as it seems KS has put a lot of investment into scooters and e-bikes, but they better hope that this revenue is enough to keep them afloat. I still wouldn’t want KS to go under as the EUC industry feels a bit like an oligopoly and any loss in competition is a loss for us buyers as well.

I'm not particularly concerned even if some design cues were blatantly taken from Begode's current lineup (closest at the time of 2022 being the Master, but after that wheel all Begode wheels followed the same "modular" structure allowing for faster wheel releases and iterations. When Bob said Inmotion would be trying to do something similar, this isn't what I expected . I feel that the Extreme rip-off accusations moreso represent an undercurrent of our collective surprise at the sudden change in design language relative to Inmotion's previous wheels. It would seem as though LK is the last manufacturer to not succumb to the tempation of making a wheel just be a 'box of batteries'. The swingarm is more pleasing to look at in these renders. Given that these renders don't show the middle sliders and separation, I'm inclined to think this is an older variation however and we may be stuck with the new geometry. Were the leaked photo to be close to what we'll get, I can only hope the production version won't have those awful pointy bits on the linkage. For all the complaints people have had about the looks I actually like the way this wheel looks. It's more of a guilty pleasure than appreciating the refined look of the V11 through 13 but I can appreciate the lines of the wheel in general. Interesting to see this but I do feel this image has a bit more credibility than what was shown back there. That render had obvious crappy Photoshop artifacts (for example, the wheel and tire being warped), but I won't dismiss the possibility we'll see something different.

The linkage does concern me too, it’s a bit fragile and more exposed looking than you’d find on most Begode wheels. I’m not educated enough on the mechanics to know anything about how good the geometry would feel, but it’s definitely not as sleek looking as even the Begode linkages. I suspect the lift bar in the back is doing double duty in this design. It sticks out farther than you’d expect so I would think that both the tire and pseudo crash bar are there to protect the swingarm. It’s still a bummer as it would be ideal for the linkage to be able to take a hit too in the worst case scenario, but it may be okay in that it won’t just disintegrate in most crashes. Agreed on the same thing here, and to interject I do at least appreciate that the slider system isn’t as prone to gunking up as the S22 and now S19 linkages. I suppose we’ll have to see if LK or anyone else really would come out with a wheel with hydraulic suspension and either a progressive rate (ie: built into the spring) or close to the 130~mm travel manufacturers have been recognizing. That design may end up being the holy grail, but time will tell.

Oh make no mistake, I’m excited for this wheel and everything I described is theoretically the worst case. Good point on the V13 trial, but I still wouldn’t put it beyond any company to be potentially hit or miss either. You’re right that it is better than a disastrous first batch deal. Only other thing I was wondering is if there are any consequences on your deposit for not reaching the required mileage (save for obvious breakdowns). I don’t mean to say that Inmotion would be predatory (I doubt it) but they hypothetically could also get away with screwing a few testers over if they had genuine problems go unacknowledged.

It’s definitely a bit of a raw deal, be down a few grand for a month while getting the batch before first batch. Gotta hope it’s not a cutout wheel, that the swappable battery system is fully baked and you aren’t a fire victim (you’d also hope that you’d have recourse if your wheel is defective because good luck pursuing an international lawsuit). All of that to be expected to put in about an hour of riding time each day (and you better be sending it on some trails or at least be on the road) assuming 20 mph average. Godspeed to our guinea pig friends, hope that the best happens and they get a new wheel half off.