When will we see an 84V, KingSong 16"

[DaveThomasPilot]

The title says it all.

Gotta wait a month to get a 16s.   Maybe I should keep waiting.

[US69]

23 minutes ago, DaveThomasPilot said:

The title says it all.

Gotta wait a month to get a 16s.   Maybe I should keep waiting.

There have been absolutly NONE rumours about a 16inch 84Volt Kingsong....

The only and first 84Volt wheel seams to be the 18L...and even that will need some time!

Thinking about the Ks16 shell how it is today and that it perfectly fits to 64 cells....they would need to develop a completly new shell to fit at least 80cells in it! So i dont think a 16inch 84Volt wheel will happen soon.

[DaveThomasPilot]

The cells don't have to be the same size as what's currently in the 16s.   If they were, battery watt-hours would go up 25%!

Maybe I'm not typical, but the 840 Watt-hour battery capacity of my 14C is way more than I need.    Two hours is as long as I care to ride, and that's typically less than half the battery capacity.

I'd prefer a lighter wheel, not more capacity.

But, I do like the higher (rated) power motor.  We know that the motors and controller will already overheat on long, steep hills.  Temperature kills electronics and batteries.  Failure rates roughly double for every 10 C rise in temperature (this is crude--different failure mechanisms are accelerated by different amounts). 

The 84V battery will require (roughly) 25% less battery current for the same torque as a 64 volt battery.   Before Carlos flames me again, remember I'm talking current from the battery, not the current the motor windings see.    

Anyway, it will be a different battery discharge curve--lower current.   Discharge curves at lower currents usually mean more available energy from the battery.  That's because resistive losses in the batteries are proportional to the current squared.    So "watt-hours" doesn't tell the whole story.  Available energy depends on the discharge rate.

Also I would think you could get more life (cycles) running at lower battery current.  The battery should stay cooler.

Of course, smaller cells would result in higher internal resistance.  But, while the resistive losses are proportional to the cell internal resistance, they are proportional to the current squared.

So, my interest in 84V battery is not to go faster or ride longer.  Just better reliability and transient power capability.

But I do appreciate the comment that there are no rumors about an 84 KingSong.  Sounds like I won't wait--just wish.

 

 

 

[Jason McNeil]

19 hours ago, DaveThomasPilot said:

Gotta wait a month to get a 16s.   Maybe I should keep waiting.

I've put the following questions to KS a couple months ago, it's not an exact record, but gives a close approximation to the exchange.

• JM: "What is the current sales ratio between the KS16S & 18S?"
• KS: "Over 10:1"
• JM: "when considering the Tesla has sold 2,000 Wheels the past 3 months & the overwhelming evidence that the market wants a 16S, why would you not prioritize the efforts on producing an updated version of 16S before the 18L?!"
• KS: "Yes, it's a good point..." 

The Spec I would like to see in a new 16S would be on par with the Tesla but with the superior build quality of KS board & shell: 20s4p (80 cells), 1900W motor, 40kph, <18kg, more durable handle design, self-standing, 2.5" tire. All perfectly achievable without a massively expensive redevelopment effort. If only there was the will!

[US69]

6 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said:

 

The Spec I would like to see in a new 16S would be on par with the Tesla but with the superior build quality of KS board & shell: 20s4p (80 cells), 1900W motor, 40kph, <18kg, more durable handle design, self-standing, 2.5" tire. All perfectly achievable without a massively expensive redevelopment effort. If only there was the will!

That are all good Points!

On the other Hand i understand that they now have decided to develop the 18L.... Since 2 years we all told them the KS18 is ugly as hell and we want a 18inch with a  kS16 formfactor/design.

I guess the Msuper V3 numbers where not that bad, too. So sure there is a market for a compact-trolley driven 18inch wheel.

Unfortunatly KS is very bad at Marketing....They had shown the 18L much to early, so now the 18S selling numbers sure have gone down more (although the 18S is a fantastic wheel)

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

That are all good Points!

On the other Hand i understand that they now have decided to develop the 18L.... Since 2 years we all told them the KS18 is ugly as hell and we want a 18inch with a  kS16 formfactor/design.

I guess the Msuper V3 numbers where not that bad, too. So sure there is a market for a compact-trolley driven 18inch wheel.

Unfortunatly KS is very bad at Marketing....They had shown the 18L much to early, so now the 18S selling numbers sure have gone down more (although the 18S is a fantastic wheel)

Gotway is great at coming up with interesting names for all of their wheels (the Monster, really?) which certainly helps generate buzz. KingSong continues with exciting names like 18S, L, X, etc.

[Jason McNeil]

5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

I guess the Msuper V3 numbers where not that bad, too. So sure there is a market for a compact-trolley driven 18inch wheel.

Unfortunatly KS is very bad at Marketing....They had shown the 18L much to early, so now the 18S selling numbers sure have gone down more (although the 18S is a fantastic wheel)

Completely agree. Gotway & Inmotion tend to hold back new product info until they're a month away from shipping, KS & Ninebot announce a new product, then release in 6-12 months later. There's advantages to both approaches, by announcing & then following through a release later, your Customers may defer purchasing the competitor's Wheel.  

Sometime next year we're going to rebrand the KS Wheels to something that sounds a little less Made-in-PRC.