Robi Bobi Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Hello Folks I wish to make an upgarde to my BWheel, What mainboard should I get to do that ? What can You recommend me to improve the wheel , as it safety speed now is only 15 km/h. Now this is the mainboard as on the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 What you want (just Change the board to "upgrade") is not possible! Each board is specified for it's Motor. So there is no way to Change the board and get a faster or better wheel. And especially not on these generic chinese no name wheels, where nobody knows what components they use.... So i would safe some Money and buy a better wheel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 I have KS 16, There are some mainboard for DIY , I heard that it is possible to put another mainboar to the wheel making it faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 30 minutes ago, Robi Bobi said: I have KS 16, As it's safety speed now is only 15 km/h No you do not have a KingSong 16, if you did it's speed would be more than twice what you are saying and it would need no change in control board, it also isn't that horrible yellow colour in your picture. Furthering what @KingSong69 has said above 4 things limit the safe (with emphasis on 'safe') maximum speed of en electric unicycle. The controller - but that is only doing what it needs to in order to protect from the limitations of the other components The power of the motor - that needs to be sustainably at least 500 watts to go much faster than 15km/h and at least 800 watts to go above 25km/h, of course this depends upon the weight of the rider etc. but with an average western rider it is so. Many cheap wheels straight lie about their power it is rarely as much as 500 watts The kV of the motor, more torque can be obtained by having a lower kV thus making up for the poor power from the motor. However kV is more or less RPM per Volt so a low kV means a low maximum speed and very, very little torque as you approach that speed so the wheel becomes very, very unsafe above a low top speed. The batteries. Power requirements increase exponentially with speed, a single set of just 16 cheap cells cannot sustain very much current and voltage will also drop significantly under load. Above 15km/h with an average weight rider you need at least 32 cells so you have cells in parallel, doubling their current output capability. Fast wheels like the Kingsong and Gotway models sometimes have eight or more cells in parallel and in some cases also increase the voltage to 80 volts. In conclusion, of course you can make your wheel go much faster - just change the controller, the motor and the battery pack. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 11 minutes ago, Robi Bobi said: I have KS 16, There are some mainboard for DIY , I heard that it is possible to put another mainboar to the wheel making it faster. There a Mainboards on DIY EUC's...that's true! But These Mainboards only work on ONE Special Motor type! I guess you are talking about microworks Mainboard, which Needs a microwork Motor. So No, it is not possible to upgrade your Bwheel(or any wheel) by just replacing the board.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 The Bwheel state that there is 500 W motor , what kind ? I don`t know, Yes KingSong69 , I meant a works Mainboard, Maybe when I open the wheel to see the motor that will be easier to recognize an upgrade possibility ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, Keith said: No you do not have a KingSong 16, if you did it's speed would be more than twice what you are saying and it would need no change in control board, it also isn't that horrible yellow colour in your picture. i assume he means he has both - a ks16 and a yellow bwheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Yes I have both , just the BWheel is too slow , for me 20 km/h its minimum to ride together with bicycle riders. At 15km/h Euc rider is mostly overtaken by cyclists By the way, is it not a microworks Mainboard an the picture ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Robi Bobi said: Yes I have both , just the BWheel is too slow , for me 20 km/h its minimum to ride together with bicycle riders. At 15km/h Euc rider is mostly overtaken by cyclists You could make a "first" rough test if your bwheel could (maybe) be upgraded - measure the lift cut-off speed. (and hope that it is not limited by the controller - imho that's normally not the case). For the KS16 for example the maximal safe riding speed is about 2/3 of this lift cut-off speed. So for your BWheels motor beeing able to provide 20 km/h riding speed you'd need roughly about 30 km/h lift-cut off speed. For the KS16B/C going 30 km/h it's about 47 km/h. (45 measured with almost full batteries) This should be one of the main parameters. You could maybe have good luck (if this lift-cut off speed is in the right range) that a 20 km/h microworks motherboard works for your motor. But there is a second important parameter - the coil resistance. Don't know how and if this influences the needed controller. 26 minutes ago, Robi Bobi said: Yes KingSong69 , I meant a works Mainboard, Maybe when I open the wheel to see the motor that will be easier to recognize an upgrade possibility ? From looking at the motor one should not see anything - there are no tables to compare them. Also i don't know if this above mentioned two paramters are already enough to choose a suitable motor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Chriull said: Also i don't know if this above mentioned two paramters are already enough to choose a suitable motor... Aren't number of magnets...exact Diameter of the wheel rim...used hall sensors also important Parameters? 1radwerkstatt -who really is one of the best in EUC maintenance - is stating on his Website: "For generic chinese EUC's it is impossible to find the right replacement Board"....i guess upgrading would be even a step above impossible :-) So i would guess it is just dumped Money to try to upgrade a "Bwheel"...how much Watthours does it btw have??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: Aren't number of magnets...exact Diameter of the wheel rim...used hall sensors also important Parameters? The hall sensors should be the next big question mark - if they don't fit nothing works. Also their positioning could be different with different motors? Also the motor windings could be connected as "star" or "triangle" (also i never heard of a "triangle" bldc for euc's - but who knows...) 2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said: So i would guess it is just dumped Money to try to upgrade a "Bwheel"...how much Watthours does it btw have??? Chances could be quite high to just dump money if one tries this... But one could buy a suitable motor afterwards (if the mb survives)... Adopt the shell if it does not fit, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Some progress is done with the Microworks 30B4, battery 264Wh Samsung ICR 18650-22P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmar Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 bWheel U8 = CXM A8 I have a modified U8, with Microworks 30B4. Maximum safe speed = 17kph. First warning 17,1 kph (GPS). GPS speed 17,1kph = EGG App speed 23 kph (CXM is 16", Microworks motor 14") Odometer error is about 1.13: GPS distance x1,13km = app distance Microworks 30B4 is best (and only one) option without tilt-back. EUC is softer than before. I'm riding in Madden mode. Another modes are too soft for comfortable riding. HangHong 16" (low speed) motor: magnets 57, coils 63. Nominal power is 500W, torque is not bad (more than generic Chinese wheels). Microworks mainboard is better than original CXM mainboard. Since the replacement of the controller I had no accident on the uneven sidewalk or bike lanes (earlier yes, few times, too fast cut-off or something like that) CXM battery: 16P2S, 32 x Samsung ICR18650-22P / 264Wh - 4,4Ah/60V https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm0ZX4yKH-w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robi Bobi Posted July 27, 2017 Author Share Posted July 27, 2017 Thanks you very much for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmar Posted July 27, 2017 Share Posted July 27, 2017 The speed will increase only about 2 kph but much more comfortable going without tilting. The disadvantage is that you can hear the high frequency of motor control. If you want, I will place a description of this modification here. I just have to prepare it. Unless you see here (Polish non-commercial electric unicycle forum) -> ecojazda.pl - bWheel U8 zmiana sterownika. Sign In required. Your mainboard looks a bit different. CXM A8 mainboard - production date 2014.08 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivzkice Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 On 7/25/2017 at 2:04 PM, Keith said: The batteries. Power requirements increase exponentially with speed, a single set of just 16 cheap cells cannot sustain very much current and voltage will also drop significantly under load. Above 15km/h with an average weight rider you need at least 32 cells so you have cells in parallel, doubling their current output capability. Fast wheels like the Kingsong and Gotway models sometimes have eight or more cells in parallel and in some cases also increase the voltage to 80 volts. In conclusion, of course you can make your wheel go much faster - just change the controller, the motor and the battery pack. ?? This is same hint I was thinking to modify my 16" generic. As I've digged further to where my 16" generic motor was made of, it was the same motor that was in Ninebot C. 60V, well made alum rim and quality stainless bolts. Only the mainboard and battery pack was different. I have hints that these parts are the factory over quantities produced to be sold out in the black market for cheap. These motors did not through with the factory markings phase unlike those Ninebot motors with large laser etched brand name largely visible on the rotor cover. Perhaps, these small enterprises took it, compliment with other factory's sub-quality controller boards and re-assembled it to create a new line of generic EUCs. I do own 2 chinese generics EUC in the past month. They are 14" and 16" of different components respectively. The 14" has a yellow main controller board, no mobile apps and has the shortest battery life as compared to the 16" generic. It barely afford to overunn a 6" road humps. This was a sourest lemon product ever, no doubt about it. I sold it after a month use. However, my other 16" generic is undoubtedly good, with red mainboard, 16S battery pack and nice LED programmed bright lightings that came with remote control. Overruns 6" road humps swiftly and once a while grass and fire roads without hesitation. Performed well and didn't discouraged me for once. Except that as soon as I've level up with riding skills, I'm craving more for speed which my 16" generic limits and cannot further give. I once ride it on under my feet at the computerized treadmill for a test, set the treadmill for its steepest incline and maximize for the hardest, it gets 13.9KPH smooth. But by pushing up the treadmill computer speed of 14KPH and above, it beeps all the time and tilt back. Lowering back again the computer speed to 13.9 and down any KPH, it rolls again so smooth. I think this motor deserves a desired partner controller board and is qualified for upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivzkice Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 On 7/25/2017 at 6:40 PM, Kalmar said: bWheel U8 = CXM A8 I have a modified U8, with Microworks 30B4. Maximum safe speed = 17kph. First warning 17,1 kph (GPS). GPS speed 17,1kph = EGG App speed 23 kph (CXM is 16", Microworks motor 14") Odometer error is about 1.13: GPS distance x1,13km = app distance Microworks 30B4 is best (and only one) option without tilt-back. EUC is softer than before. I'm riding in Madden mode. Another modes are too soft for comfortable riding. HangHong 16" (low speed) motor: magnets 57, coils 63. Nominal power is 500W, torque is not bad (more than generic Chinese wheels). Microworks mainboard is better than original CXM mainboard. Since the replacement of the controller I had no accident on the uneven sidewalk or bike lanes (earlier yes, few times, too fast cut-off or something like that) CXM battery: 16P2S, 32 x Samsung ICR18650-22P / 264Wh - 4,4Ah/60V https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm0ZX4yKH-w wow! that high pitched motor sound in your video was tingling to hear. I wish i can realize the motor of my 16" generic to a bit faster speed. I am looking forward for 18-20'ish speed. would there be possibility to get rid off of my controller board and put higher discharge controller to enhance it's speed? this is the current set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, vivzkice said: it was the same motor that was in Ninebot C. 60V, well made alum rim and quality stainless bolts. Only the mainboard and battery pack was different. I have hints that these parts are the factory over quantities produced to be sold out in the black market for cheap. You could well be right, I suspect that happens an awful lot. 6 minutes ago, vivzkice said: I think this motor deserves a desired partner controller board and is qualified for upgrade. Bear in mind that the max speed of the Ninebot C is only around 16km/h so it is reasonable to assume that this motor has been wound for torque not speed, I.e. Whatever controller you use on it, it may not go much above 16km/h before the torque becomes dangerously low for any bumps you may hit. You may need to also increase the voltage to go much faster or rewind the motor, both of those options would have you in very unknown territory. You would certainly need to parallel up additional battery cells i.e. To at least 16S2P in order that the battery can supply the current requirements of higher speed - considering only the battery, 16S2P ought to be good for up to 25km/h, any higher really needs 16S4P or more. However, if the motor is wound for torque and has a low maximum RPM it is going to take more than a parallel battery and faster controller. Still, it does no harm to anything more than your wallet to experiment as long as you wear good protective gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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