New parameter proposed to assess Unicycle longevity and condition

[Cloud]

Let me just start out by saying that i think I am a genius, well maybe not a major genious, like @esaj, who is basically the Albert Einstein of electric unicycling, but maybe just a minor kind of genius on a local scale, but with a little bit of a vision lol. Well now that y'all are aware of that, let me get to the point  Lol

I'd like to propose a parameter to assess the condition of a used EUC, considering the wear and tear on it. ( as well as a longevity of a new EUC) . Simply stating the mileage ridden does not cut it, as there any other important factors like the rider's weight etc that play a major role. To immortalize my name I propose naming it the CLOUD's FACTOR  (or CF) ( which can be further described as SIMPLE CLOUD's FACTOR (SCF)  as oposed to COMPLEX CLOUD's FACTOR ( CCF) described further below).

All joking aside, i believe this coefficient will be very useful for many purposes.

SIMPLE CLOUD's FACTOR (CF)

KM - kilometers traveled. This is self explanatory. This affects wear and tear on the wheel

 W(r) - Rider's Weight (kg)  -  From my own experience riders weight plays a major role in the wear and tear of the wheel. It affects the load on the motor shaft, bearings, pedal construction, it also affects the amount of the current run through the electronic components, and the temperature of components which can cause overheating etc.

D(w) - Wheel's Diameter  Wheel of bigger diameter have less revolutions per km traveled, than the smaller wheel and as such the wear on each component is less with bigger size wheels. Also smaller wheels simply have a smaller  surface area subjected to the same amout of wear and tear. Technically the circumference of the bigger wheel would be Pi times ( 3 times ) the diameter, however the bigger wheel has more components that could potentially break, so for the purpose of the formula we emperically use a factor of 2 to describe the probability of failure is a wheel half the diameter of another wheel.

To make the the factor more user- friendly, we will divide by 1000, so that the result is a 2 - digit number convenient to deal with. We will use kg, km, and inches in this emperical formula so as to express thru familiar parameters and the ones the manufacturers operate with

SCF = KM * W(r)  /  D(w) / 1,000   ( Simple Cloud's Factor = kilometers traveled multiplied by riders weigt ( in kg) divided by the wheel diameter ( in inches) and divided by a 1,000.

This should be convenient when describing / selling used wheel as well as to assess wheel longevity. The SCF will end up being from 0 to 100 and in rare cases >100, with most numbers from 0 to 50 and can include one digit after the decimal point. Someone barely using the wheel for 100km weighing 70 kg on a 14" wheel will have a SCf of 0.5. ( 100* 70/14/1000) A100kg person somehow squeezing 10,000 km out of his10 inch Gotway, will have the SCF of 100. (10,000* 100/10/1000). Some average user, having ridden a 16 inch ninebot for 1000 km, weighing 80kg will have the SCF of 5 (1,000 * 80 /16 / 1000).

the resulting SCFs can be conveniently divided into several categories to perceive and assess the euc condition.

0 - 1      Barely used 

1 - 2.5   Lightly used 

2.5 - 5    Moderately used 

5  -  20.   Fairly used

20   - 50  Heavily used

50 - 100  Overused

( these can be adjusted as the euc insudstry and the euc quality develops)

EUC longevity

EUC longevity can be then convenienty described using the SCF to compare the longevity of different wheels. As the market stands now, if a wheel , for example, can be characterized with a Maximum SCF (max) of 100, its a pretty good and durable wheel. This parameter would be good to see published as part of the new wheels specs and will reflect the new wheels longevity in close to ideal conditions.

COMPLEX CLOUD's FACTOR

SCF can be used for simplicity and easy of calculating as well as to express a new Euc longevity in near ideal conditions. In real life though, we know that the terrain (T) affects the wear imposed on a euc. Also the riding style can affect the wear and tear, as well the predominant cruising speed V(pc). Higher speed increases the effect of hits and increases vibration, hence Vc - speed coefficient. ( for simplicity, i didnt separate the effect of Terrain and Riding style)

COMPLEX CLOUD's FACTOR (CCF) = Tc * Vc * SCF   ( terrain (riding style) coefficient multiplied by speed coefficient multiplied by the Simple Cloud's Factor

Tc - terrain coefficient equals 1 for smooth pavement with only ocasional sidewalk ramps and pavement irregularities. In this case the SCF will equal CCF. 

For more irregular terrain the following can be used for Tc value:

Super smooth perfect pavement with most riding done in mild riding style  in  Tc = 0.8

Smooth enough pavement with ocasional ramp, rare irregularities and mild riding style Tc= 1

Not so smooth pavement with sidewalk ramps, sidewalk riding , especially with not purfect pavement, moderate ocasional hills Tc = 1.3

Rough Pavement with irregularities, small potholes, frequent bumps, change in elevation, and a share of hills, ocasional tricks, Tc = 1.6-1.7

Grass, unpaved areas, some potholes, bumps, trics and frivolous riding style Tc= 2.0

Dirt, extreme riding , snow , aggressive riding style, tricks ( or if you are @EUC Extreme lol) Tc= > 3

 

Speed coefficient Vc is calculated as follows: Vc= 1+ (V(pc) - Vmax/2) / V max, where Vmax is maximum achievable under load  speed by manufacturer ( i e max tiltback speed). For someone predominantly cruising at half the max speed Vc will equal 1 and all other parameters beig equal , CCF will be the same as SCF.  Someone traveling at max speed will yield the speed coefficient at 1.5 which will produce the CCF 1.5 higher than SCF, which reflect the forecast of the relative longevity between the two wheels. For V(pc) less than Vmax/2,  assume V(pc) = Vmax/2

As the euc industry develops, and more stats are collected correlating the euc longevity / failures with the speed and miles traveled, riders weight, etc , these formulars can be fine tuned. As of now, this may become a very convenient emperical parameter to describe the wheels condition and quality.

id like to get to the point that SCF and CCF become so commonly used that no sale of a used euc will be taken seriously without listing its CCF and the manufacturers start listing Max. SCF as part of the new wheel specs.

opinions welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

[esaj]

1 hour ago, Cloud said:

Let me just start out by saying that i think I am a genius, well maybe not a major genious, like @esaj, who is basically the Albert Einstein of electric unicycling, but maybe just a minor kind of genius on a local scale, but with a little bit of a vision lol. Well now that y'all are aware of that, let me get to the point  Lol

Goddamnit, how many times do I have to explain that spewing out lots of text with my own opinions and best guesses doesn't make me an expert?

 

Quote

I'd like to propose a parameter to assess the condition of a used EUC, considering the wear and tear on it. ( as well as a longevity of a new EUC) . Simply stating the mileage ridden does not cut it, as there any other important factors like the rider's weight etc that play a major role. To immortalize my name is propose naming it the CLOUD's FACTOR  (or CF) ( which can be further described as SIMPLE CLOUD's FACTOR (SCF)  as oposed to COMPLEX CLOUD's FACTOR ( CCF) described further below).

All joking aside, i believe this coefficient will be very useful for many purposes.

SIMPLE CLOUD's FACTOR (CF)

KM - kilometers traveled. This is self explanatory. This affects wear and tear on the wheel

 W(r) - Rider's Weight (kg) 

From my own experience riders weight plays a major role in the wear and tear of the wheel. It affects the load on the motor shaft, bearings, pedal construction, it also affects the amount of the current run through the electronic components, and the temperature of components which can cause overheating etc.

D(w) - Wheel's Diameter

wheels of the bigger diameter have less revolutions than the smaller wheel and as such the wear on each component is less with bigger size wheels. Also smaller wheels simply have less surface area to wear. Technically the circumference of the bigger wheel would be Pi times ( 3 times ) the diameter, however the bigger wheel has more components that could potentially break, so for the purpose of the formula we emperically use a factor of 2 to describe the probability of failure is a wheel half the diameter of another wheel.

To make the the factor more user- friendly, we will divide by 1000, so that the result is a 2 - digit number convenient to deal with. We will use kg, km, and inches in this emperical formula so as to express thru familiar parameters and the other the manufacturers operate with

SCF = KM * W(r)  /  D(w) / 1,000   ( Simple Cloud's Factor = kilometers traveled multiplied by riders weigt ( in kg) divided by the wheel diameter ( in inches) and divided by a 1,000.

This should be convenient when describing / selling used wheel as well as to access wheel longevity. The SCF will be from 0 to 100, with most number less than 50 and can include one number after the decimal point. Someone barely using the wheel for 100km weighing 70 kg on a 14" wheel will have a SCf of 0.5. ( 100* 70/14/1000) A100kg person squeezing 10,000 km out of his10 inch Gotway, will have the SCF of 100. (10,000* 100/10/1000).

the resulting SCF can be conveniently divided into several categories to perceive and assess the euc condition.

0 - 1      Barely used 

1 - 2.5   Lightly used 

2.5 - 5    Moderately used 

5  -  20.   Fairly used

20   - 50  Heavily used

50 - 100  Overused

( these can be adjusted as the euc insudstry and the euc quality develops)

EUC longevity

EUC longevity can be then convenienty described using the SCF to compare the longevity of different wheels. As the market stands now, if a wheel , for example, can be characterized with a SCF of 100, its a pretty good and durable wheel. This parameter would be good to see published as part of the new wheels specs and will reflect the new wheels longevity in close to ideal conditions.

COMPLEX CLOUD's FACTOR

SCF can be used for simplicity and easy of calculating as well as to express a new Euc longevity in near ideal conditions. In real life though, we know that the terrain (T) affects the wear imposed on a euc. Also the riding style can affect the wear and tear, as well the predominant cruising speed V(pc). Higher speed increases the effect of hits and increases vibration, hence Vc - speed coefficient. ( for simplicity, i didnt separate the effect of Terrain and Riding style)

COMPLEX CLOUD's FACTOR (CCF) = Tc * Vc * SCF   ( terrain / riding style coefficient multiplied by speed coefficient multiplied by the Simple Cloud's Factor

Tc - terrain coefficient equals 1 for smooth pavement with only ocasional sidewalk ramps and pavement irregularities. In this case the SCF will equal CCF. 

For more irregular terrain the following can be used for Tc value:

Super smooth perfect pavement with most riding done in mild riding style  in  Tc = 0.8

Smooth enough pavement with ocasional ramp, rare irregularities and mild riding style Tc= 1

Not so smooth pavement with sidewalk ramps, sidewalk riding , especially with not purfect pavement, moderate ocasional hills Tc = 1.3

Rough Pavement with irregularities, small potholes, frequent bumps, change in elevation, and a share of hills, ocasional tricks, Tc = 1.6-1.7

Grass, unpaved areas, some potholes, bumps, trics and frivolous riding style Tc= 2.0

Dirt, extreme riding , snow , aggressive riding style, tricks Tc= > 3

 

Speed coefficient Vc is calculated as follows: Vc= 1+ (V(pc) - Vmax/2) / V max, where Vmax is maximum achievable under load  speed by manufacturer ( i e max tiltback speed). For someone predominantly cruising at half the max speed Vc will equal 1 and all other parameters beig equal , CCF will be the same as SCF.  Someone traveling at max speed will yield the speed coefficient at 1.5 which will produce the CCF 1.5 higher than SCF, which reflect the forecast of the relative longevity between the two wheels. For V(pc) less than Vmax/2,  assume V(pc) = Vmax

As the euc industry develops, and more stats are collected correlating the euc longevity / failures with the speed and miles traveled, riders weight, etc , these formulars can be fine tuned. As of now, this may become a very convenient emperical parameter to describe the wheels condition and quality.

id like to get to the point that SCF and CCF become so commonly used that no sale of a used euc will be taken seriously without listing its CCF and the manufacturers start listing Max. SCF as part of the new wheel specs.

opinions welcome.

This might actually even work to some extent, once the coefficients are fine tuned   What is the unit name for SCF and CCF? "Clouds"? "This wheels' SCF rates around 34.4 clouds..."

[Cloud]

3 hours ago, esaj said:

Goddamnit, how many times do I have to explain that spewing out lots of text with my own opinions and best guesses doesn't make me an expert?

 

This might actually even work to some extent, once the coefficients are fine tuned   What is the unit name for SCF and CCF? "Clouds"? "This wheels' SCF rates around 34.4 clouds..."

@esaj I didnt say you are an expert, i modestly called you a major genius.

yes, Clouds will work or just CCFs or SCFs.  For example, hey,someone is selling a used IPs130 , 6 months old with SCF of 2.3 or 2.7 CCF. This parameter will include pretty much everything a potential buyer will need to know because wnat most buyers will care about is how much longer will the wheel serve me?

coefficients can be fine tuned but i wouldnt be surprised if they turned out pretty close.  I have witnessed a lot of effects of riders weight on the failures, and i might be pretty close on other parameters. In any case as long as the tendencies are expressed correctly, even if the correlations need to be fine tuned, i believe this can be used for non- quantative comparisons.

[Shoe73]

3 hours ago, esaj said:

Goddamnit, how many times do I have to explain that spewing out lots of text with my own opinions and best guesses doesn't make me an expert?

What is the deal with geniuses? They always deny it. The more you protest and add disclaimers to your genius ideas, @esaj, the more we know it's true. ?

[Cloud]

6 minutes ago, Shoe73 said:

What is the deal with geniuses? They always deny it. The more you protest and add disclaimers to your genius ideas, @esaj, the more we know it's true. ?

He obviously is a genius. Here is the proof. Even when i express my genius revolutionary ideas in this thread, the whole conversation still revolves around @esaj lol

[johrhoj]

 

If I ever sell my wheel as a preloved EUC, I will not tell them that a dear old lady drove it ...

I cannot imagine sitting down and doing all the calculations, estimating all the factors. I also think you got the weight factor wrong. Putting 110 kg on wheel that supports max 100kg should be calculated differently, from putting the same weight on a wheel that supports 150kg. The number of crashes probably contribute more to the structural wear and tear then a few kg of rider weight. 

If you want to use weight in your formula, why not use the difference between max load and actual load? 

What makes the wheel live longer also is good maintenance: keep it clean to prevent wear and tear from dirt in the wrong places. 

Doing tricks also puts a lot of stress on a wheel, while not making much km. 

[Cloud]

7 hours ago, johrhoj said:

 

If I ever sell my wheel as a preloved EUC, I will not tell them that a dear old lady drove it ...

I cannot imagine sitting down and doing all the calculations, estimating all the factors. I also think you got the weight factor wrong. Putting 110 kg on wheel that supports max 100kg should be calculated differently, from putting the same weight on a wheel that supports 150kg. The number of crashes probably contribute more to the structural wear and tear then a few kg of rider weight. 

If you want to use weight in your formula, why not use the difference between max load and actual load? 

What makes the wheel live longer also is good maintenance: keep it clean to prevent wear and tear from dirt in the wrong places. 

Doing tricks also puts a lot of stress on a wheel, while not making much km. 

What we choose to communicate regarding the previous use of the wheel is a different story. The assumption here is that the seller will tell the objective truth.

The calcs for SCF will take less than a minute, more like 30 seconds. One already has an idea of the km traveled, just multiply by weight and divide by wheel size. Dividing by a 1000 is just moving the decimal point. Even if seems tedious, once one is used to this parameter, it will communicate a lot of info in just one number. Using it, new wheel quality/ endurance by manufacturers can be more precisely communicated. 

The effect of the weight is hard to access precisely. I know from my own experience how often can the wheel break affected by the weight. This is a steady factor that keeps affecting the wheel every second and will eventually affect its integrity, as such i believe can be used in longevity approximations. My wheel broke gazillion times and i can link it to the weight. You are probably right about the correlation with the max allowable weight. So the formula can only be used assuming that the riders weight is below the max. And , yes , its not linear, i agree, 60 to 70 kg is not the same affect as 110 to 120. So maybe it can be adjusted. You are right, i should probably use the max allowable weight in the calcs. Maybe it can be accounted for in the CCF, but SCF should be left as is, just for simplicity?

Crashes affect the wheel longevity but its hard to assess their exact effect and factor them into a formula . The formula is based on the assumption that there were no crashes. Crashes are out of the ordinary. Same with tricks - hard to assess the effect, and not sure anyone should try to formulate the correlation. Although, i did include the riding style in the Terrain coefficient in the CCF...but this is very not precise.